OT: Arrest in guitarist and family's murder

[Noodlesbad]

Here's the latest in the murder of House of Freaks/Gutterball guitarist Bryan Harvey, his wife and two daughters.

 

Seattle Times story.

 

In a nutshell, two men are being held. They were found driving a car connected to the triple-murder of another family, and have since been charged in a house invasion and the Harvey family killings.

 

Here's a link to the original thread on this topic.

[skipclone 1]

If these are the scum they need to burn-gas is expensive but I`ll spring for it.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Yeah...somebody explain to me again why the death penalty is so wrong?

[Guitar Geezer]

Just got out of prison in November?

 

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by Guitar Geezer:

Just got out of prison in November?

 

Yep. A glowing example of how well prison rehabilitation works. If he served 10 years, it would be interesting to know how much he was actually sentenced to.

[skipclone 1]

The death penalty is so wrong because I`m not a lawyer, at least not yet. Are you? I`d love to tweep the creeps but if they didn`t do it what am I going to say-oops?

[Pappy P]

Hey Skip.

 

Mistakes happen all the time.

 

I call it the luck of the draw.

 

Even if an innocent (of that particular crime) man is executed, it still frees up a cell on death row. No harm no fowl.

 

I think the number of truly innocent people sent to prison on death row is staggeringly small. We only hear about them in the news because it is so rare.

 

To tell you the truth, death row in the U.S. is a cake walk compared to some countries. I only wish the punishment could fit the crime.

 

So to put it briefly, whoops is OK. It's not that big a deal.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

The death penalty is so wrong because I`m not a lawyer, at least not yet. Are you? I`d love to tweep the creeps but if they didn`t do it what am I going to say-oops?

I'm not following your first comment at all. I don't need to be a lawyer to know that the pinheads that did this deserve to die.

 

But, that isn't my only reason for believing STRONGLY (and indelibly) in the death penalty. My beliefs here are just like my beliefs regarding drug use. They are not changeable and they are not negotiable.

 

My feelings regarding penalties and punishment would be very unpopular with the liberal crowd, but since I not a liberal (by a long shot) that doesn't really matter to me at all.

 

I think there should be prison sentences up to 10 years and the death penalty. Nothing in between. If a person is convicted of a felony, serves 10 years, then is convicted of another felony, that second felony should be an automatic death penalty. I also think that early parole should be eliminated. If you are convicted and sentenced to 5 years, you serve at least 5 full years.

 

 

I do not believe that prison is for rehabilitation. I think it is for two purposes:

 

1. To have a place to put criminals to keep them out of society and to punish them. I do not think that a person that has spent more than 10 years in prison can really ever be a productive member of society again. At best, they will become welfare cases. At worst, they learn in prison how to be better criminals.

 

2. To punish the criminals. I do not think that they should have ANY comforts. No television, no state paid education, no nothing. A bed, a toilet and 3 meals a day should be it. If they want anything else (clothing, books, medications, etc.), their family can bring it to them. I think they should work on prison farms, or prison-run enterprises JUST to earn their keep. I do not think that felons should have any rights at all...none. They gave that up when they committed their crime.

 

In days past, the argument that we might wrongfully convict someone and execute them may have held some small amount of merit. I think when you look at the numbers, the percenage of cases where that actually happened were probably very small. There are victims in everything and life isn't fair. Now, with modern forensics and DNA evidence, the chances of that happening are much less.

 

I see no point in paying $50,000.00 per year to keep some scumbag in prison for the rest of his life. He is never going to be of any use to society, so why should society be burdened with him? I realize that the criminal doesn't want to die. Nobody does....including his victims.

 

If anyone didn't like those rules, then I would suggest they refrain from committing felonies.

 

 

Oh..yeah and after the execution, I think the family should be billed for the cost of the drugs used to execute them.

[Bluesape]

Makes ya wonder how many more people would have been killed if they weren't apprehended. If convicted, they deserve the same fate as their victims.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

#1. You`re right-the pinheads that did this derserve the worst. So you have to be able to prove legally, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they did it. That`s why we have a legal system. Or would you prefer if I have an argument with you and then go to the cops and say, hey I think I know who`s been committing those robberies? You think false accusations don`t affect your life? wrong.

In the first place, that simply can't happen. It takes evidence to convict someone. In the second place, I never said that they should have to forego a fair trial

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[QB] What do you mean `up to ten years` for a felony? that and worse already exists.

I mean that any prison sentence over 10 years should be replace with a death penalty. I see no point in keeping people around and feeding them longer than that. You have to understand that I do not consider violent felons as people. They are trash that needs to be disposed of.

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[QB] And I take it your comment on a second felony means you`re aware of the fact that what constitutes a felony is subject to who`s up for reelection, what`s in the news the previous month and several other factors that are very much at the whim of political appointees? Stealing too many pizzas can be a felony. Are you going to execute someone for stealing too many pizzas?

I sure would like to see you explain that one...that's quite the stretch. Please, explain what you mean by this and please...don't just spout rhetoric...show me some facts. Show me something that supports that argument. I'm perfectly willing to accept and admit when I'm wrong....I don't think I am here. I think there is not one single iota of fact to this claim...I think it is all emotion. But, if you can show me some reliable, believable non-biased documentation to support it, then I will admit that I'm wrong.

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[QB] If someone is sentenced to ten years, they serve their ten years, their debt is paid . Your opinion of them after that time is irrelevant. They deserve no less a chance at success than anyone else.

I agree. They do deserve a chance at success. They deserve an opportunity to make their own chance at success. That does not mean that I owe them a damned thing. They do not deserve handouts. Most companies have policies against hiring convicted felons. They made the choice when they committed the felony, now they can live with it. The prison sentence is only part of it.....the stigma follows them for the rest of their lives. Deservedly so.

 

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

[QB] DNA and forensics-you are certainly an optomist. A few people whose cases have been examined-NO thanks to the legal system, by a totally PRIVATE group who does it basically as a student project and also looks at things like who was Jack The Ripper- these guys look at cases that were totally bungled at the time and actually does competent legal work and wins some cases so now there`s no problem? I don`t think there`s a smiley for my reaction to that.

Oh, well. Nothing is absolutely perfect. I really do not believe that the percentage of bungled cases is that high. Maybe 1/10th of 1%? I know there are some...there will be some in any system. So, what do you do? Do you cease prosecuting people for murder and other capital crimes because you might make a mistake? Is it better make an innocent person spend the rest of their life in prison than to execute them? What difference does it make, really? Their life is over either way. Do you stop sentencing people to life sentences because you might make a mistake?

[skipclone 1]

The governors of Illinois and West Virginia have called for a halt to the executions in their states for EXACTLY that reason. And there`s no way to know what the percentage of bungled cases is until they get unbungled. That`s not going to happen if the person`s dead now is it?

Oh well, eh? well I hope that`s your reaction when you`re walking down the street one day and a squad car pulls you over.

As far as sentencing for felonies-so you`re talking about violent felonies only? as things are now felonies can be based on a dollar amount as well as the type of crime. that would make for some interesting scenarios.

 

"okay fill this bag up to the line and don`t make any false moves...what are WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THAT`S TOO MUCH MONEY PUT SOME BACK I SAID UP TO THE LINE..."

 

"Yo, give me your wallet...DAMN what are you a goddam ATM? just take a couple of big bills out. Here, take the rest back..."

 

Anyway I think I hear the anti-OT squad cars approaching. I suggest a change of venue if you want to continue this discussion.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by skipclone 1:

The governors of Illinois and West Virginia have called for a halt to the executions in their states for EXACTLY that reason. And there`s no way to know what the percentage of bungled cases is until they get unbungled. That`s not going to happen if the person`s dead now is it?

Oh well, eh? well I hope that`s your reaction when you`re walking down the street one day and a squad car pulls you over.

As far as sentencing for felonies-so you`re talking about violent felonies only? as things are now felonies can be based on a dollar amount as well as the type of crime. that would make for some interesting scenarios.

 

"okay fill this bag up to the line and don`t make any false moves...what are WHAT ARE YOU DOING? THAT`S TOO MUCH MONEY PUT SOME BACK I SAID UP TO THE LINE..."

 

"Yo, give me your wallet...DAMN what are you a goddam ATM? just take a couple of big bills out. Here, take the rest back..."

 

Anyway I think I hear the anti-OT squad cars approaching. I suggest a change of venue if you want to continue this discussion.

Yes, violent crimes. I should have specified that.

 

If a particular state thinks it has issues with it's prosecutor's offices or police investigative agenies, then a temporary moratorium is probably in order while they clean up, fire some invesigators, and put some people in prison for malfeasance. Illinois and West Virginia obviously think they have some incompetent people on staff. Nearly every case I've seen where someone was wrongfully prosecuted, really hasn't been an "error" but a situation where evidence was suppressed or other wise tampered with or police failed to follow leads that would have changed the outcome, etc.

 

At any rate, I'll be waiting to hear of the execution of these two slimeballs.

[Kramer Ferrington III.]

Originally posted by Pappadopalus:

So to put it briefly, whoops is OK. It's not that big a deal.

Easy to say when it's not YOUR neck.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by Kramer Ferrington III.:

Originally posted by Pappadopalus:

So to put it briefly, whoops is OK. It's not that big a deal.

Easy to say when it's not YOUR neck.

Yeah, it's tough to say anything at all when it IS your neck.

[LPCustom]

Many people argue against the death penalty by saying that "it's not a deterrant". Well, it is the only deterrant that actually works.

 

No-one who has been executed for murder has ever gone on to murder anyone else. The recidivism rate amongst executed murderers is 0%. Whereas the recidivism rate among murderers who are not executed is over 60% (i.e. they kill someone else after their murder conviction). That sounds like a pretty good deterrant to me.

[S. Yeti Bigfoot, Esq.]

Originally posted by LPCustom:

Many people argue against the death penalty by saying that "it's not a deterrant". Well, it is the only deterrant that actually works.

 

No-one who has been executed for murder has ever gone on to murder anyone else. The recidivism rate amongst executed murderers is 0%. Whereas the recidivism rate among murderers who are not executed is over 60% (i.e. they kill someone else after their murder conviction). That sounds like a pretty good deterrant to me.

Yeah, if you need an argument FOR the effectiveness of the death penalty, take a look at China. They have the lowest per-capita murder rate in the world. They use the death penalty without hesitation. Nobody sits on death row for 15 or 20 years in China. If you murder someone and are convicted of it, you will be executed...no two ways about it. They kneel you down and shoot you in the back of the head with a pistol...lights out. If you ask them what would keep them from killing someone, they will tell you, to a person, "Because the government will kill me." If it is used, it is most definitely a deterrent. The key is you have to use it like you mean it.