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Recording with the USB mic -or- Ellwood's got a brand new bag...


fantasticsound

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Originally posted by ellwood in the "So, What'd You Get?" thread:

Neil, what is the best way to record using the new USB mic? are they the same front to back? would it be good to be close into the speaker grille on the amp or away from it some? Would you put it at the level of the center of the speaker or at the edge of the speaker like we do live with the SM59's?

Here you go, Lee! A mini recording primer.

 

  1. The C01 you bought is cardioid, just like an SM58, etc., but it's a side address. Otherwise, the "front" of the mic actually points sideways off the barrel, not out the end of the mic. Check your manual or the side of the mic for clues as to which side is the front, or listen a bit, speaking into the mic from both sides to determine which is front and back. Being cardioid, the backside should be very muted and lacking in high end compared to the front side.
  2. Record your amp close up and in other places, further back in the room.
     
    Up close you'll experience almost no room sound, which can be good or bad depending on your room acoustics and the placement of your amp within that environment.
     
    Further back you begin to hear more of the room, but you also hear more of the blend created as sound waves off the speaker's surface mix in the air. This concept runs into your next question..
  3. The great thing about recording is that you have the luxury of time for experimentation. When I'm running live sound I'm torn between wanting to move the mic further back from an amp and the fact this will pickup bleed from other instruments/amps. Not necessarily so in your studio.
     
    Live, I put my head down at speaker level and listen, as close to intended stage volume as I can stand, for how the speaker sounds at different "beam" points. When I find the best sounding spot I try to position the mic there, with adjustments based on the coloration I know a specific mic will add vs. my hearing-perception.
     
    In your studio you can try this, but I'd experiment with placement at varying distances from the center of a speaker, including off access from the speaker or between multiple speakers if in a 2x or 4x cabinet. For a 4x12, I'd definitely move off the cabinet at least a foot because much of what we love about 4x12 cabs is the interference sum of all the drivers. Close mic'ing such a beast inherently loses the combination interference that largely governs why a 4x12 cab sounds like a 4x12 cab.
  4. One more hint. The C01 will likely have more high end and low end than other mics you may have used on your guitar amp, so adjust its' position accordingly. Learn its' sound and how that coloration affects what you hear from the amp and it will give you guidelines for using this mic later on.

 

Make some short recordings and post 'em for us to hear. I can't wait to see what you come up with.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

Soundclick

fntstcsnd

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OK GREAT NEIL and thanks once again! I love this subject it's just that I don'n know anyting about it.AND YOU DO!!...SO your it!!! :D I'm going to experiment with the Fender Pro Amp. I was going to maybe take the lap top and the new mic to the gig tonight but I'm NOT confident at all with it yet and NO experience with it trying to record a whole LOUD live stage situation. I know one thing I'm going to have some fun experimenting with it. Thanks Neil maybe some other guys will want to jump in here about this or related questions: :thu:
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If you have someone willing to keep an eye on your laptop and mic, I'd find a place that sounds decent in the audience and let the mic pickup whatever it can.

 

When I was in the Mideast, I used a miniature, stereo Sony mic into an MD recorder in the audience to record a few of our shows. Of course, I was limited in sound quality by the sound system, but it provided some cool feedback of what the audience heard.

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

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haha im waiting for that last coat to dry now. I have the neck sittin by me all finished though, looks real nice with the gold tuners. I did find out however that im not the best sander and i did have a little accident with the body when i was putting the first coat on. (couple dings and a little drip mark on the side due to the body falling on the container i had the oil in) but after that everything went pretty good and the stuff isnt too noticable. But hey you gotta learn somehow. Itll probably be done tomorrow and ill post some pics. Good luck with that mic stuff. If you new any help software wise i might be able to lend a hand.

Cheers

Ryan

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Originally posted by ellwood:

OT: Photographers, HOW do you get cameras to NOT make the grille cloth look wierd like that??? :rolleyes:

What you see on the grille cloth is called a moire pattern and is likely due to the interaction of the pattern of the grille cloth and the pixel resolution of the picture (probably being resized, which can aggravate the problem). Seeing that some other elements of the picture are also jagged, I believe you have resized the picture, right? Some programs like Photoshop let you select different methods for interpolating the pixels when resizing, which could be used to alleviate the odd looks. But I wouldn't worry about it in a low-res pic, it kind of comes with the territory.
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I can't speak to the resolution issues, but Ryan's right. The flash can create that illusion because of the reflective nature of the silver in the grille cloth. More ambient lighting, even from all sides, should cure your ills. But you'll probably have to take the amp outside on an overcast day to get such lighting, unless you have professional camera lighting equipment with diffusers. Probably not what you'd prefer with your amp in the Michigan winter. ;)

 

But back on topic...

 

How'd the gig go? Did you bring the laptop/mic setup and record? Any pictures of drunk/stupid/scantily clad partygoers? :D Hope it was a gig to remember. :thu:

It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman

 

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One thing you can try with a low res picture is to add a little blur to just the grill cloth area. It is indeed a moire pattern. The pattern is caused by a problem with interpolation (or lack thereof -- referred to as aliasing) between the pixels displaying the fine pattern on the grill cloth. By blurring that part of the picture, you are basically doing something called "anti-aliasing" which trys to soften the edges of objects so you don't have "the jaggies". This also helps with moire patterns which is several (or a lot of) sets of jaggies together in a perspective projection.

Born on the Bayou

 

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Hay thanks youzz guyz! learned someting about photography here and I will try to improve my shots if I can. And Neil,nope got too crazy busy with all the guys showing up here and wanting to go over the set lists and the keyboard player got into a pretty nasty fender bender to the front end of his vehicle and broke the radiator so I had to go get him way over on the other side of town. SO!!the gig itself went extremely well just jammed to the gills! The other band was tapeing so I'm going to eventually get a copy of the night. I did play through his rather old orange 4X12 cabinet and head and it sounded great I think he also is using a old original EchoPlex for slap back and that thing was SO organic I had fun all evening with it, and they ran it through my Marsall stuff and it sounded just great there too. We swapped guys back and forth all night, that was a real blast ..good guys great players all of them! We left about 3:30 and went back this morning about 11:30 to finish up outloading. I little tired now but not bad ..glad I have tomorrow off from work.
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Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

What recording software are you using, Lee?

Gezz you are just going to laugh at me now... I'm just going to use the sound recorder in my laptop here, I have a good copy of Cool Edit Pro on the other big computer...should I put it on this laptop??? I don't know very much about recording, as you can see!!!
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Originally posted by Sasquatch51:

What recording software are you using, Lee?

Gezz you are just going to laugh at me now... I'm just going to use the sound recorder in my laptop here, I have a good copy of Cool Edit Pro on the other big computer...should I put it on this laptop??? I don't know very much about recording, as you can see!!!
I don't know, man...I was gonna ask you! I want to use my PC to record, but I don't really know how to go about it.....I need some sort of sequencing software, I guess....I want to be able to put it down a track at a time, and record directly by using microphones (like you are doing).....

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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Oh ok I see! Well sounds like we both could use some of the pro sound engineer guys on here!! I think you can multi track with Cool Edit Pro? I know it might be less complicated hardware wise using the usb mic like I just got but am not sure? FantasticSound Neil said it would be. I know it seems easy to get the Windows recorder and the new mic setup and its easy to set the levels but beyond that I'm not sure?
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Originally posted by ellwood:

I got it at Sweetwater. Neil, FantasticSound told me about it and it is so easy to use! and I am learning to adjust it and set it up with his help. There is alot of informantion on this new mic do a search and you will find tons.

Cool stuff, Lee. Thanks! You too, Neil! I've been trying to find an easy way to do that without spending a ton of money....

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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Sawq here is a statement about using Cool Edit Pro for multitracking: It says it is NOT a sequencer though "Without MIDI tracks to worry about, multi-track recording on Cool Edit Pro really couldn't be easier. It doesn't include a conventional 'arrange' page like those found on most sequencers; instead there's a Multi-track Mixer page with the waveforms assigned to each track displayed within its own horizontal space."
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Sawq here is a statement about using Cool Edit Pro for multitracking: It says it is NOT a sequencer though "Without MIDI tracks to worry about, multi-track recording on Cool Edit Pro really couldn't be easier. It doesn't include a conventional 'arrange' page like those found on most sequencers; instead there's a Multi-track Mixer page with the waveforms assigned to each track displayed within its own horizontal space."

Here is a good informational link for ya: http://www.computermusic.co.uk/reviews/cool/cool.asp there is a free download too:
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Originally posted by ellwood:

Sawq here is a statement about using Cool Edit Pro for multitracking: It says it is NOT a sequencer though "Without MIDI tracks to worry about, multi-track recording on Cool Edit Pro really couldn't be easier. It doesn't include a conventional 'arrange' page like those found on most sequencers; instead there's a Multi-track Mixer page with the waveforms assigned to each track displayed within its own horizontal space."

OK...I'm gonna hafta read that a few times... :D

 

 

Sooo...you CAN record multitrack, just not in MIDI....???? Does it allow you to take the final recording and mix it down into...say a MP3 or Windows Media type file?

"And so I definitely, when I have a daughter, I have a lot of good advice for her."

~Paris Hilton

 

BWAAAHAAAHAAHAAA!!!

 

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Verdict

Given the extraordinary breadth and depth of features included in Cool Edit Pro, the decision to buy it seems likely to determined by whether or not you need MIDI tracks to sit alongside your digital audio. If you do, you'll obviously need to look at one of the many sequencers currently available. If you don't, you should find Cool Edit Pro offers everything you ever wanted in a multi-track recording system - and quite a bit more you probably didn't know you wanted.

Really, we can't think of any creatively-useful feature you can expect to find in any other digital audio package that you won't find here. And if there is, the chances are someone has produced a plug-in for it which can be run within the program.

The real genius of Cool Edit Pro is that, despite its wealth of features, nothing gets in the way of its easy-to-use interface or compromises its accessibility. Other software manufacturers take note: it is possible to throw everything in without being confusing

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i might be able to help out a little. Ell, i dont know how good of quality you want and ive never used Cool Edit but i can say that most Recording Programs offer a choice of sound quality and the ability to layer tracks. If your just doing jam takes for your own listening pleasure than sound recorder would work fine. And if the stuff ive listened to from you was used with it then it does sound pretty good. So with cool edit theres a chance it could sound better and then you can layer audio and maybe effects and pan audio. But if you just want to plug in and play then sound recorders fine(there may be the sound quality issue though).

 

Sasq i dont know how much you want to spend but heres my little setup:

 

mic (usually Sm57) -> Firebox (a audio interface) -> Computer ->Cubase LE

 

Sm57 is a very good all around mic and its only $100, which is pretty cheap.

The firebox has two xlr inputs and 4 1/4, it connects via firewire to the computer and it has a big brother if you want more inputs (the firepod).

It took a little work to figure out the settings but after that everythings a breeze.

 

Now assuming you have a descent computer this will cost about $400 - $500, i think the price on the firebox has dropped. You could use any audio interface but from what ive seen and read the firebox is highly revered.

 

Ellwoods way is a lot cheaper and it works. Like i said i dont know what you do or spend but i thought id let you know. Dont bother with the little digital recorders, wast of time and money in my opinion. LEt me know if you have any software question ell, take it easy guys.

Ryan

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Hay great Ryan and thanks for the advice and help! I just put Cool Edit Pro on this little laptop and am going to try it out tomorrow. I see the multi recording screen and I will assign the new mic to each one of the tracks as the imput source. I will do a track and save it then on to track 2 while listening to the first track and see if it works? Don't hurt to try I guess? I've got tons of SM57's here cuz thats all we use for live instrument micking, but I don't have a firebox or interface other than this USB mic.
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