[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:11 PM, timwat said:

Agree with a lot of the already-given sage advice. All I can add:

 

After not gigging for 20 years, and at your tender age of 50:

 

1) Invest in a handful of those foam ear plugs. Some guys cut them in half and use them for both ears. Protect your hearing and you will thank us all later.

2) Don't buy anything you don't absolutely need for now (as already suggested by others). Spend time on your practice, make sure your playing sounds great, and effortless, and whenever you upgrade something, it will sound that much better on whatever new gear your acquire.

3) Commit to being 100% pro. Show up on time. Set up as quickly as possible. Don't be an azzhole. Encourage the rest of your bandmates. Bring good energy to rehearsals and gig. Be the guy the rest of the band enjoys having around even when you're not playing.

4) Whatever you play, try to make the other guys sound good.

5) Invest time and discipline to growing as a player. For the purposes of this topic, I think it's the best investment that pays dividends forever.

 

Okay, that out of the way, my casual advice: 

 

1) If you confirm after your first few gigs that yeah, it's about 85% organ, my suggestion is get a hold of a Ventilator. A ho-hum clone wheel through a great Leslie sim is going to sound better than a great clone wheel through a ho-hum sim, and the Vent is a great sim.

2) I've dabbled in the laptop route. That movie didn't end well. I'm hardware only, and will remain that way for the foreseeable future. Other respected members here have gone differently, and that's cool too.

3) Amplification depends on the nature of your gigs. After all these years, I now have several options - I can bring loud stereo PA cabs, IEM only, and options in between. But only you can eventually answer what YOUR gigs require. 

4) If the amp you eventually need will ALSO serve for what the audience hears, buy quality. No matter where your gig life takes you, you want to sound GREAT to your audience. It's all you're really selling.

5) We have more quality options in keyboards than we've ever had. Don't sweat your choices on this yet (as already noted above).

6) Protect your hearing. It's like putting on sunscreen, walking away from the mean drunk, or not lending money to that fetching young thing in the miniskirt. You'll live to appreciate your smart choices later.

 

And finally, a question...you said "85% organ, 10% piano and a few EV songs"  What's an "EV song"?

Oh I’m sorry “extra voices” like a song that needs clavinet or Rhodes. Thank so much for taking the time to type that up it is very helpful. 

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

This is all fantastic information. Thank you all for the time and expertise 

[Awkward Fingering in Videos]

Whew from the title I thought I was logged into the wrong forum.  😳

 

I've been blown away by how differently some people move or contort to make similar sounds on the same keyboard.  Sometimes I wonder if they had more efficiency, what could they do!?!?!

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

8 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

What did you use back in the day when you were playing live? That might inform a direction now.

And how important is playing a weighted action, piano feeling keyboard for non-organ material? 

 

 

Mostly piano and a STUDIO (ouch) Rhodes.  Eventually I think a proper full 88, hammer-weighted piano might be in the cards, but so far the SK1 with a proper damper pedal is sufficient.  I forgot to mention that it is a 73 key SK1 so I don't feel that cramped up doing piano on it.

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

So if you were to do it all again and start with just an SK1 ..  I wouldn't start with an SK1 as Vase III technology is twenty years old. I would start with an SKPro; it's organ and leslie are immensely better and the acoustic piano is slightly better than the SK1.

 

The idea of a vintage tube Leslie definitely appeals to me (analog is king), but for going to gigs, it would probably be too much.   Correct, analog leslies are great but good leslie sims will get you where you need to go and much less of a hassle to transport and setup.  You're 20 years removed from playing and you sound like you want to jump in full monty; that band can breakup tonight.  Take your time and grow into your gig rig.  If a year from now things are really moving you can re-evaluate; but an SKPro will get you to where you need to go after 20 years being away from the scene.

 

A LOT has changed in 20 years and I'm getting a bit overwhelmed by the hardware/software options like a Studio 12, or 2101 Mk3 vs a Neo Vent 2 into some kind of quality stationary amp, vs just the onboard Leslie through a Spacestation v.3  If you go down the leslie route a 2101 would be a nice choice and you could run the bottom end through a powered monitor of some kind that can do 2 things: 1) bolster the bottom end of the 2101 by running it through the powered monitor which has a significantly better bass speaker than the 2101's 4" bass drivers.  2) use the powered monitor to cover your piano and other instruments (the other 15% you mentioned).  This way you'd have a real horn spinning and a decent low rotor sim through the powered monitor.  The 2101 is fairly expensive (as is a Studio 12), still think the SKPro's internal leslie sim or an external leslie sim such as a Vent is easier and less expensive.  I still think the SKPro's leslie sim will get you there for the time being.

 

Take your time, ensure the band stays viable and look to expand in the future after you have re-evaluated the band a year from now.  Also, you're 50; when I was 50 I was using a Hammond L100P and a Motion Sound leslie; I still have that road kit, it's sitting in my basement and I use it when we practice.  In the past 10 years I've used the L100P once outside my basement and the MS leslie about 6 times, the last time in September for a large gig.  My back and knees were already sore and carrying that 'lightweight' leslie really wrenched my back (again).  Nice to have but probably done carrying that equipment around to any other gigs unless someone transports it for me and that is highly unlikely.  Since I appear to be the best conditioned person in the band I would doubt that equipment will ever see the light of day again.  My personal rig is the best sounding rig I've ever owned SINCE using old analog equipment and presently there isn't a piece of equipment that individually weighs more than 37 pounds.  You'll understand what I'm talking about in the next 5 years.

 

Thank you so much for the input.  Funny the decision to grab the SK1 was two-fold.  I found it on FB marketplace within a drive, and it was cheap enough that I figured it made sense to start with it and if I grew out of it to go with the SK-Pro and lose little to nothing on it.

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

7 minutes ago, CEB said:

Yes.  Gear is overrated, The biggest determiners will be whether the band will be hiring good sound production or doing it themselves and what will sound reinforcement will consist of.

Yes overrated but also necessary. Since I’m really starting from scratch I have a bit of freedom to not be anchored to equipment I’ve invested significantly into. 

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

Mostly amps/modeling/software options. Most musicians I know are constantly changing bits and pieces of their rig until they settle on what they feel works best for them, then the new shiny thing comes out and the cycle repeats lol. Since I’m 20 years removed I’m wondering where anyone that has gone down a similar road has settled. This is a fun side thing for me rather than a career. 
 

if consensus seems to be that one path gets me 95% there with huge pluses in usability/portability/cost that would be great to know. 

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

5 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

I'd still play piano. Organ is secondary. The SK1 is a little old now but still useable. Organ is a different animal and usually if you want to play it professionally you have to do what comes along with the lifestyle.  You'd have to get a console that is road ready, get a decent Leslie , ramps, a trailer and a good vehicle to tow it.  I tell people all the time unless you play organ 90% of the time you don't need to carry a real rig.  That said it all of this depends on what you want to do.  It depends on  your budget, your time and what you can put it into it.  All the music you play  can dictate what rig you will have. People don't put thought into that aspect either and get marginal results. 

 

You need to spend time with some of the gear also to figure out what's best for you.  Doing a lot of research would help you also.

Thank you, but this is far more of a fun (but serious) hobby than a professional endeavor.  I've always wanted to really play organ also.  I'm just hunting the most efficient way to get as close as can to the feel and sound without going full pro route.  There's just a lot of ways to get there and I'm hoping to pick the minds of those that already have.

[Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back]

For those of you running Hammond SK/XK into the SSv3, do you run through a rotary emulator pedal like a vent, or just run with the onboard Leslie?

[Gigging organ/piano. If you could do it all over again...]

Hey all I'm new to the forum.  I'm an acoustic piano player (love my Yamaha C3 Grand at home), now 50 and about 20 years removed from any kind of live playing.  A friend wants me to join his band for local rock/blues/country bar-type gigs for 85% organ, 10% piano and a few EV songs.  I just got my hands on a perfect second-hand SK1 as the beginning of my rig for this new journey.  The idea of a vintage tube Leslie definitely appeals to me (analog is king), but for going to gigs, it would probably be too much.  A LOT has changed in 20 years and I'm getting a bit overwhelmed by the hardware/software options like a Studio 12, or 2101 Mk3 vs a Neo Vent 2 into some kind of quality stationary amp, vs just the onboard Leslie through a Spacestation v.3, the possibilities are a little paralyzing to analyze coupled with the fact that near me, there is nearly zero chance of getting my hands on any of the options to try them out.

 

So if you were to do it all again and start with just an SK1, and build a rig for home/practice and small bar gigs, knowing what you know now, how would you approach it?  These forums are amazing and if there are any reference level threads I should be checking out please feel free to link them.  Thanks in advance for any advice you have.  Also while I wouldn't say money is NO object, I wouldn't make a strict budget a limiting factor in options to consider.