JohnG11

Hmm! A figure floating in space with bare hands and ankles and no life support pack? Obviously dead due to exposure to complete vacuum and no oxygen to breath! (Surprised there isn't more mess, blood, etc. around the figure.) We didn't hear her scream, as she was abondoned in space, because "in space no-one can hear you scream!" (Thanks Alien.) Not quite sure what this is meant to represent. Maybe they're abandoning everything and launching themselves into the ether inadequately equipped. Linking up with SpaceX? (Is Elon Musk involved I wonder?) Whatever!

Way, way back when I was young (oh so long ago) in 1968 I bought the S.O.B. LP with the picture of an angry J.S.B. (that Wendy hated) on the cover. (It's no wonder he was angry, the Moog synth wasn't plugged up, so consequently he couldn't play it!) Then a year or so later The Well Tempered Synthesiser and later still S.O.B. II, then finally the Switched on Brandenburgs. Then later Clockwork Orange and much later S.O.B. 2000 on CD. I had all until a forced move from the Continent back to the UK and I had to leave all my LPs behind as well as my wonderful Thorens TD125 mkii (sob, sob!) But ... I discovered in 2014 that Wendy had released a "Switched On Box Set" which, although rather expensive, I promptly bought. All the originals (4 CDs), remastered by Wendy, along with end of CD comments and two books of written material. I still have the box set and a CD/DVD player mounted in an old Lenovo Thinkpad T430 plus a copy of EAC (exact audio copy). I use this combo very frequently to provide mp3's for my own listening pleasure. (VBR, Q=0) Now I suppose that, if asked very, very nicely ... JohnG aka: SysExJohn.

[RANT} I don't know! Nobody here seems to understand how processors work. I started writing programs in the late sixties and was recruited by a mainframe manufacturer in '72. I was there for twenty years. Through modems, ISDN, LANs and their many different formats, and then DSL and fibre networks. I've worked on mainframe operating systems (rewriting data communications parts in machine code), DOS, OS/2, Windows 2 onwards. So ... I believe I do know I tiny bit about how things work in this respect. hardware, processors, networks, protocols (from 2780/3270, CSMA/CD, Q.921/.931, GSM) etc, I'm no expert, very far from it, when it comes to using DAW software. But I do understand the code and how it's processed. I worked in data comms/tele comms and lastly satellite comms from 1970 until 2002, most of it from the computer aspect, but also writing and delivering courses worldwide for a satellite comms company (InMarSat). When a packet of data arrives at the USB interface it has to be examined by the operating system to understand what the contents are. It then gets passed on by the operating system to the appropriate program to process it examines the first byte to decide what message it is, then takes the appropriate action. The DAW software then e.g. passes the data to a VSTi to generate a note and then goes back to look at the next message in the packet and so on. With the best will in the world a modern system even with a 4 MHz octocore processor just deals with one message at a time. So even two notes timestamped with the same time will be started one at a time. The gap between them may to besmall to hear. But the notes are still processed SERIALLY. There's no guarantee that notes originating at a music keyboard played simultaneously will occupy just one USB packet. They may, they may not. But anyway, just like a QWERTY keyboard, an electronic music keyboard is scanned from one end to the other many times per second and notes are accumulated sequentially from the scan and transferred to a buffer in digital format. This is another serial proces. Even if you physically play two notes simultaneously (an analogue process) they'll each be turned to MIDI Note On events (whether 1.0 or 2.0) one at a time by the processor chip in the keyboard and placed in the transmission buffer, again serially. Even if you devised a system where all the keys were constantly monitored and triggered an interrupt as they were played they would still be processed serially by the code running in the processor. Sorry, getting exasperated! [/RANT]

Yup, just logged on and it seems I'm no longer a moderator. The spam has already started - I found three, couldn't remove them or delete the users. Oh well! Good luck MMA, I've put in many years of service and finally had enough. Time to let others take over. JG.

Greater dynamics? That again depends not upon MIDI (whether 1 or 2) but on the device interpreting the MIDI command it receives. The MIDI note receiving device that then creates the sound interprets it in the way it's been designed to. e.g Note On, Velocity 64 = 60dB, Note On, Vel. 100 = 90dB - or whatever. MIDI 2 will give, if used, smaller steps between each of the current MIDI 1 'steps'. My understanding, having read the MIDI 2 specs four years ago, is that none of our old gear will have a clue what is happening with MIDI 2 commands. I also got the idea (could be wrong) tht MIDI 2 devices won't be using the Din interface because it's not bi-directional. So they won't physically connect to the TX81z vor the VL70m, both of which use the 5 pin Din only. But I wait to be corrected on this. Theoretically my ancient Yammy MU1000 and my Roland SC8850 could connect, but they'd need some sort of firmware upgrade to understand the MIDI 2 commands. Now I wonder whether Yamaha and Roland are going to dig out the code and reprogamme 20 plus year old equipment? Hmmm! Hope people are enjoying this debate, I'm deliberately playing Devil's Advocate. (But I do remain to be convinced.) JG

Thanks for that Craig. The UK u3a is moving to WordPress too. I'm unfortunate enough to be web co-ordinator for one the the 700 odd branches here. I'm trying to absorb the info in a 296 page manual in my copious spare time. Yuk! Not my favourite waste of time.

Craig, Re hearing stepping when you move a fader. What you're descirbing is faulty electronic design, not a fault with MIDI 1. If you want a smooth transition between increments when you move e.g. a fader, you design the equipment to provide it. Just as when you play an acoustic instrument and don't want each note tongued you play legato or use portamento for a slide. The electronics has to be designed to do a smooth transition rather than a click. No need to design a complicated new protocol to carry smaller 'clicks'. SynMike, 30 notes with identical timing? To what purpose? The microprocessors in any MIDI instrument or PC will play them back sequentially. They are serial devices. No electronic instrument on this planet can play back 30 simultaneous notes, let alone 2. (Modification, it can play back 30 notes starting them one at a time, albeit very quickly using a modern processor.)) They're played in the order in which they appear in the file or over the interface. The processor in, say, a keyboard, scans the keys and plays them back one after the other in the order in which it 'sees' them. They may appear to be simultaneous, but they're not.

Bidirectional negotiations were happening 20 years ago, just connect both MIDI In and Out. T'aint rocket science, I know, I worked for InMarSat for a while, back in the early noughties, writing courses for them and delivering them worldwide. Re the problem using a different note on each channel of a MIDI port. Multiple ports were used long ago. If you wanted a harpsichord using a non-ET temperament you used one port for that and a separate port for other instruments. The Yamaha MU128 as long ago as 1999 had four MIDI ports. Craig, Re backwards compatible, can MIDI 2 use the Din interface? I thought it couldn't. So my old Cheetah MS6 couldn't be used with MIDI 2 gear could it? What about my TX81z, or my AN1x, or my Kenton Plugstation with its 4 PLG cards?

Ethernet has come a long, long way since the early eighties. If I remember correctly I was working with Ungerman-Bass equipment back then and it was all horribly expensive and a nightmare to implement. Cat 5, for wired connections, is extremely cost effective and inserting a Gigabit Ethernet chip in a device is probably cheaper than an RS232 chip was back then.

Certainly a Cat5 Ethernet solution looks favourite to me for a high speed solution, but it would be good as a solution for MIDI 1 too.

But the Osmose Expressive E is all MIDI 1.0, and if that can allow us to be more expressive ... then why MIDI 2.0? I readily admit that the 5 pin DIN MIDI interface is way too slow for our current needs, but that's not a justification for a totally rewritten set of standards, just for a very low latency, higher speed connectivity mechanism. IMV there are fundamental flaws in all current Packet Switched mechanisms for data transmission for playing music. (I worked all my career in data communications, both terrestrial and satellite, starting with 300bps modems. Now retired.) ? The need for for higher resolution controllers? The ear IS highly sensitive to changes in frequency. Experiments done in the 1970's showed that the ear/brain can detect a frequency change of 1.8 Hz from a note at 1000 Hz. That's why Pitch Bend is 14 bit rather than 7. (>16,000 in/decrements) The ear is nowhere near that sensitive to changes in loudness, hence 127 levels are not too bad for representing volume. Another bit might suffice, i.e. 255 levels might be sufficient. 16 bits (> 65,000) is overkill. The ear can't hear that level of 'expressive' change. Sure, a good pianist can play at probably thousands of different velocities, but can we hear it? Experiments say not. A single deciBel is roughly the smallest change the human ear can detect, So a range of 127dB should be sufficient shouldn't it? (Dave Smith got it right the first time.) Anyway, my EWI and VL70m will probably outlast my time left on the planet. JG

Deliberately contentious post. Please ignore if it upsets you. [RANT} Well, here we are FOUR years after the announcement of the wondrous, incredible, all singing and dancing, solution to all our problems MIDI 2.0, and still not a product in site (that I know of). Whoops! Totally forgot about the Roland A88 MkII. With that I can alter keyboard velocity (quote) "You can play MIDI 2.0 compatible software sound generators with rich expressiveness." (end quote) Hmmm. To what resolution? It doesn't say. I wonder if it's like so many pitch bend controllers that have a 7 bit resolution (or less) but pretend to be 14 bit? And Assignable control [1]–[8] (quote) "You can make smooth changes to parameters such as filters and resonance on software sound generators that are compatible with MIDI 2.0." (end quote) But ... The USB driver setting is disabled when this instrument is in MIDI 2.0 mode (the “GENERIC” setting is always use. Whatever that means. Sound generators compatible with MIDI 2.0? Are there any yet? Hmmm again. What about MIDI-CI and all the rest of the v2.0 specs? No mention that I can see. It's all gone SO quiet. Will there ever be any MIDI 2.0 products on the market? (Not that I'm in the market for any, I just don't have that kind of budget anymore.) [/RANT] JG

Aha! Thanks for the info. Sounds like "par for the course"! So ... all the forum posts have been lost, AGAIN presumably. The old forum (pre the one that has just just folded) with hundreds of posts about MIDI (even a few solutions from me!) also was discarded in favour of the new. Shame! JG

For several days now the MIDI Manufacturers Association web site has completely disappeared. Or is it just unavailable in the UK? First the forum went off line and then the whole site became unobtainable. Have they been massively hacked or something, or is the site experiencing a face lift? Just curious as I moderate and delete and ban the spam. JG

First question, if we're going to replace petrol and diesel engines with electric motors, where are the millions (billions?) of ampere hours of extra electricity going to come from? Second, when are we going to replace the infrastucture needed to carry the huge extra current to the filling stations? The wiring in place to most filling stations won't carry the load. Think of the vast amount of oil, currently converted into fuel, and wonder where that energy is going to come from in electrical terms. How many new power stations are going to need to be built? Just a thought!

A sad song? The saddest I know, I think, is by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac - Man of the World, the original studio recording. It still haunts me, oh so many years on. And such economical guitar playing, haunting too. Shall I tell you about my life They say I'm a man of the world I've flown across every tide And I've seen lots of pretty girls I guess I've got everything I need I wouldn't ask for more And there's no one I'd rather be But I just wish that I'd never been born Break: And I need a good woman To make me feel like a good man should I don't say I'm a good man Oh, but I would be if I could I could tell you about my life And keep you amused I'm sure About all the times I've cried And how I don't want to be sad anymore And how I wish I was in love. https://youtu.be/lDGi0SZkgpI

Thanks Craig, just in case anyone is tempted to do the same and inadvertently ends up with the same disater and anguish that they've just destroyed their wonderful EWI4Ks! I must admit to being close to tears when I saw what I had done. Now, thankfully all sorted. (I know, clumsy old fool. Hey, less of the old please!) BTW, I've forwarded the service manual to Jose and can do the same for anyone else who needs it. Just ask. Q. Do you store any manuals on site, Craig, as the yamahamusicians.com forum does? JohnG

Just to add a footnote to this thread, dismantling a EWI4000s is not so straightforward. The problem is a very vulnerable connector between the batttery box, contained at the bottom end of the instrument, and the PCB into which it plugs. I know, I broke the one in my 4000s and it was rather difficult to mend it it. Unfortunately I didn't find the service manual, despite searching, until afterwards. And, even when I did, the manual suggests removing the four screws that hold the PCB to the battery box. They are inaccessible, and the pcb is soldered to the battery box so, even if one could remove the screws the PCB wouldn't be removable. In 'EWI_Diagram02' (below), the lower part shows the dismantling of the electronics from the aluminium shrouding, downwards (E). Above, in the same diagram, you can see at (B) one needs to withdraw (A) from (C). This is not immediately obvious at the time. Dismantling the whole electronics unit downwards overly stresses the connector and results in 'BrokenConnector' which should look like this 'BatteryConnect'. The surrounding plug has pulled free of the underlying, soldered to PCB, pins and bent them. It is a five pin version of the connector 'je_2' that is involved. So, one can complete the first stage of dismantling, but when it comes to removing the electronics from the casing, the battery box must be withdrawn horizontally first. Although initially it doesn't seem possible to pull the box out of the casing, careful perserverance is essential, to avoid disaster. After much searching I found the agent in the UK who was kind enough to send me a "sample" of the connector and the EWI is now fully functional. JohnG.

I find it interesting to do the arithmetic, after all, it isn't too difficult. The nearest star, Proxima Centauri, is about four and a quarter light years away. Now, just how far is a light year? Well, the speed of light is 186,000 miles per second if Wiki is correct. So, a light minute is 60 x 186,000 = 11,160,000 miles; a light hour is 60 x that = 669,600,000 miles; a light day is 24 x that = 16,070,400,000 miles. So a light year is 365.25 x that = 5,869,713,600,000 miles. Which means Proxima Centauri is 4.25 x that away from us = 24,946,282,800,000 miles. Assuming we can accelerate a space craft to 50,000 miles an hour, which we manage when we send things to explore Jupiter & Saturn, By my caculation that means we can travel 1,200,000 miles in a day; so 438,300,000 miles in a year. Lastly, divide 24,946,282,800,000 by 438,300,000 = 56,916 years. So, if my arithmetic is correct (please feel free to check it) it would take us nearly 60 thousand years to get to the nearest star ... assuming that life exists there. Hmmm! "The chances of anything coming from Proxima are a million to one he said!" ... sorry, where did that come from? The chances of alien visitors from outer space suddenly diminishes to microscopic proportions. (IMHO) ... OR ... What d'ya reckon? Comments welcme.

Actually Craig, Händel's tuning fork was at C5=512Hz from which A4=422.5 can be derived (assuming E.T., I think). If you think about it the 432 people use Hz as a reference point. But why do we have 24 hours ina day? Or 60 minutes and 60 seconds to the hour and minute respectively? What if we had ten hours in a day (or 20, 10 a.m., 10 p.m.)? And 100 minutes and 100 seconds? The whole thing is crazy ... IMHO I'd better add.

How about Miditech MIDIface 2x2? Ah! I see it was already recommended by Baggypants. I use a MOTU micro lite but I suppose that's overkill for you? I went for the extra ports just in case I needed them in the future, and the reputation for solidity that MOTU has. I'm not disappointed.

Craig and Athan, Very many thanks for your responses. I've been working with MIDI since the late eighties and used to answer users questions on the old MIDI forum. It was you I think, Athan, who communicated with me, was it 2016(?) and made me a moderator of the MMA forum back then. (We try to keep the spammers in check on a daily basis!) I don't suppose you remember though, a lot of water has passed beneath the bridge since then. Despite this I was unaware of the change of Presidency of the MMA every two years. Naturally I keep up to date with all the various press releases on the main site. I'm sure when you are directly involved the MIDI 2.0 process and various bits of hardware/software for testing are highly stimulating. However, from the users' point of view there has been a dearth of apparent progress since 2020! A huge amount of interest at the launch, but many people I talk to seem to have lost interest or are angry at the lack of information from the end users point of view. My career was in the data comms then the telecomms and lastly the satcomms business. I worked with most of the standards organisations during that time, the IEEE, the CCITT, the BSI and also many telcos.etc. One thing we learnt during that time was not to make a premature announcemnt of a forthcoming product. Users expect imminent availability. Certainly Yamaha music is well aware of this with their product releases. My question was actually prompted by a couple of users questions over on the MMA forum. I think most people would actually like to have some indication when the SMF 2.0 specification is likely to be released. I'm quite sure the creation of that standard is in no way a trivial matter. Is it likely to be released this year? Many thanks again, JohnG.

Craig, forgive me if the question is indiscreet, but in one of your articles at the MMA I see you now described as "former President." When did that occur and is there a reason you can share with us for the change? I don't recall seeing any announcement. Also we don't seem to have had any news of SMF 2.0 progress for more than a year. I wrote on the MMA forum "I strongly suspect we'll see something before the end of 2021." Here we are two thirds of the way through 2022 and still nothing. What gives? Do you know? I beg your pardon if you'd rather this was kept quiet. JohnG.

My antidote to ear worms is ... another ear worm (at least this one is for me)! Being a fairly ancient geezer, I returned as a teenager to the UK at the end of '62 (I spent my youth as a colonial Brit in East Africa), Can you imagine the sudden exposure to bands like the Beatles and Stones and all the others? So many ear worms they almost drove me cazy. (Some say they did.) So many songs from the late fifties and early sixties can still be conjured up. It wasn't until '68, or was it '69, when I bought the LP of Switched on Bach by Walter Carlos that I found my ultimate ear worm, the Chorale Prelude "Wachet Auf". That one used to go round and round and round, but now, whenever I'm haunted by one I want to get rid of, I hum Wachet Auf to myself and in moments the other's gone. Yea, I know, maybe I did lose my marbles back then.

There, FTFY. ☺️ But there are hundreds of other circulating temperaments dividing the Pythagorean comma in non-equal ways that allow all keys to be played. E.g. Werckmeister, Temperament ordinaire, Neidhardt, Kirnberger, Kellner, Vallotti and Young, to name but a few! 😉 See here: https://huygens-fokker.org/scala/