borntohang
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Posts posted by borntohang
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On the '09, is it possible to go from stop to fast rotary speed, while still going through the rotary circuit?
I actually got rid of Slow on some of my patches by setting the Slow speed for both High and Low to 0 and leaving the Fast speeds as normal. I felt like the slow spin was getting lost in a full rock band, you can still get some movement using the C/V and the ramp up is a bit more dramatic.
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Has anyone else experienced this:
Last night in the middle of a gig, my Vr09 spontaneously transposed itself - universally. I only discovered it as it came in with the first three notes of the song which were suddenly sounding in the key of Ab (the rest of the band, regrettably, was in A....) The orange transpose light was not lit. When I tried changing sounds the transposition stuck!
Fortunately it was an easy song so I was able to busk it in Bb, but needless to say, it could have been pretty disastrous...
I have no idea why this occurred. I didn't dare turn the VR off in case it created a huge click through the sound system. After a while I was able to change sounds and found it back in concert pitch.
Sounds like WesG might be on to something here ^^ If the transpose light wasn't on and it carried between patches, then I can't see the software glitching so disastrously and yet ONLY affecting the transpose settings. Someone in here has done a pitch.mod replacement before so might be worth looking into.
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Was just reading through the pdf owners manual for the '09, and it says on page 10, that if you "place the vr-09 on a stand, you must use the (Roland) KS-18Z or (if you're using the optional PK-9 pedal board) the KS-12". Why would they say that, other than to sell their own stands? Has anyone had any safety/whatever issues, by not using one of those stands? I'm honestly asking, because I've never heard of a keyboard manufacturer say you "must" use their stand(s). They might suggest that you use theirs, then say any similar quality stand will work. That what I just read, struck me as quite odd.
Partly to sell stands, partly to cover their ass in case of accidents I suspect.
You put it on a cheap stand; it collapses and the VR09 breaks because it's made of plastic; you complain to them and they point out they did warn you not to use other products apart from the ones they can specifically confirm are rated to their standards (ie. theirs). The same goes for power supplies - if you use a third party supply and it damages your gear then it's only your fault.
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We have back to back shows next weekend, so the rig stayed packed up this week. However if memory serves, I layered up two presets under the Brass button: FS Brass and StackTP Sect. IIRC, it is kind of finicky how you have to get a layer going by pressing and holding the BRASS preset button then press another preset button, then cursor down to the second sound and press the BRASS button again. You should be able to then dial to the desired preset when you are highlighted on the lower tone.
I don't think I had to fiddle with too much except maybe the Reverb. I like how the Filter Fader allows some control to simulate sforzando.
I found FS Brass and StackTP to be the most useable layering too; I sometimes dropped one an octave for a really big sound. If I'm only using one layer I tend to go for FS Brass but haven't put a lot of thought into it. Lucky enough to play with a section anyway so it's mostly just for thickening the sound out.
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This is my new setup for live playing. For the first time ever I got all three keybeds I need in a very compact and lightweight setup: Roland RD64 hammer keys for piano/rhodes, Uhl X3-1 waterfall organ, Roland A800 synthkeys for synths and everything else in the Integra 7.
That UHL looks fantastic on top of the Roland. How are you finding the sounds? Considering picking one up to go with my VR-09. I just wish the RD came with more vintage looking sidepanels; I would kill for a 61 waterfall/61HP setup in a single retro box.
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Yep, that sounds just like mine. I've adopted a method of changing sounds with at least an eighth-note rest to avoid that glitched sound. This is still way better than the 127-velocity trigger of the changed sound that occurred with firmware vers 1.
I've not found a way to overwrite the stock sounds under the three mode buttons but whole-heartedly agree that it would be very convenient to have my own favorite set-ups stored there. However I have programmed several "go-to" sounds' registration spots that are memorized for quick access with a spin of the dial: 10-1 has a fairly clean jazz organ for rock ballads, 14-4 has a loud perc organ with loads of key-click, 15-1 has a raunchy distorted organ Jon Lord style, 13-3 is my dual layered ac piano, 11-1 is my SuperNatural alto sax (only for use when there are no known horn players in the room), 11-3 is a very dreamy pad-piano layer, 5-3 is my own Sitar patch created with the iPad editor, 3-4 is my own bagpipe patch again done with the iPad editor, 16-2 is a big fat layered horn section, and so on. I'll still simply hit one of the preset buttons in a pinch to quickly dial up a synth solo or an accordion or strings or even an ep piano sound.
My VR09 has been gigging in bars and many outdoor events for over two years and I'm very pleased how durable the thing is and my back loves how light it is at the end of every show. I think I am exactly the demographic that Roland built the thing for...weekend cover band and occasional jam night musician that still likes to get a little spacey and experimental in the home studio.
I use the preset registrations for everything but I did work out a trick for certain songs to get two sounds on a single reg button:
Set your big Dual or Split sound (Piano [1] and Pad [2] for example) as the registration. Hit 'EXIT' to remove the Split/Dual and you get the [1] sound with your FX tweaks still in place for verses; hit the registration and you get your big sound back for a chorus or solo.
You're still limited to 4 Registrations but means I can effectively have 8 different sounds to play with on each bank, which is useful as I'm single-boarding at 99% of my gigs.
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Had a bit of an equipment failure halfway through my Emerson impression last weekend, but we got through.
http://i.imgur.com/Xgsefp1.jpg
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Quick question for anyone who has installed the 'Cover Band Collection' registration pack available on Roland's website: which registrations do these install to as default? I already have a bunch of custom ones I don't want to set up again in the user patches and don't want to overwrite them.
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Are you on 1.0 firmware?
Nope, up to V1.03. As far as I can tell it doesn't play the previous sound, but the held notes are triggered in the new sound. Only noticed it once or twice live.
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Sheesh! I must have dreamed the rotary stop function...or disassociated the memory of way back when I used an RT-20. I am shocked this board does not do it. Apparently, I never use the technique but now all-of-a-sudden want to. Fast and slow speeds are priority for me, though.
It's listed as 'Tonewheel Brake' so entirely understandable. I do miss having it there; use the RT-20 myself and there's a part in one track where I hold a chord with V1 and then spin the rotary down to brake so the subtle vibrato 'fades' in that just doesn't sound the same without it. I always have the option of using the XM-1 for that, but that defeats the point of having a single board. Might just have to set up a registration for that part.
The other quirk that I've noticed is having to be careful about switching registrations between verses/choruses. If I'm sloppy with the sustain pedal I get the awkward triggering as I switch. Something that's been raised in this thread already I think. I can live with it and suspect I will get used to making the changes eventually. I'm already allowing too many of my technique flaws to dictate the way I play so perhaps it will help with my discipline.
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This funny thought occurred to me today: I wonder if there was a breakdown in communication when the designers designated that they wanted the rotary to "stop" with a push of the lever and the programmers mis-interpreted that the sim should be turned off rather than engaging the brake? :idk
However, there is a proper brake function, but only with the D-Beam. This can be assignable per registration so you can still have a slow speed on the rotary, too.
Yep, great real-world review, borntohang. Thanks for contributing your experience.
Might be misunderstanding you there but the 'brake' setting on the D-Beam is actually for the Tonewheel Brake, so you get the Emerson Divebomb sound. There's no way to put the rotary on stop without setting the slow speed to 0, which does work if you're ok with just having two speed Fast/Off. I've done some playing around with different patches and it can be useful; particularly setting the slow woofer to 0 but keeping the tweeter like the old memphis sound.
I think it must just have been an oversight on their behalf because they seem to have included everything else you could want in the way of weird noises like divebomb and spring shocks. It's a shame they haven't considered putting it in an update but I doubt it will happen now V3 is out. Normally I would be able to live with it but the tonal change is so obvious it puts me off; if you set the keyclick high enough to be noticeable when the rotary is on it becomes horribly overpowering when you turn it off. C'est la vie.
Edit: Slight afterthought perhaps but I'd like to say how helpful this thread has been since I bought the board. I've enjoyed reading the reviews, positives and negatives alike, got a lot of tips out of it that have encouraged me to tweak the deeper settings and I'm a lot happier with the sounds than I originally was.
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borntohang,
Thanks for the review. Spending some time tweaking the organ to sound less flat would be a good idea. I've played with the treble and bass gain, and that seems to help quite a bit. Also the TONE can give you some additional control over that.
I've dabbled with the gain boosts, found the leslie model had more effect to my ears. With the overdrive as it is it can be really easy to boost into an unpleasant flabbiness with only a bit of bass. Would have liked a two band EQ on the front a la Nord Combo Organ, but the tone works nicely for quick adjustments.
Maybe 'flat' was the wrong adjective to use, 'polite' might be more suitable. Even with the leakage up high and overdrive on it seems fairly restrained, and then flips straight over into unusable after a quarter of a turn on the drive. It's a work in progress getting used to the settings right now, so maybe it'll grow on me.
The looper is indeed not for live performance, at least not how I would use it. But I could see it being used to set up an inpromptu jam session if you don't have a drummer.It's not that bad really, I just do a lot of looping and would have liked to be able to lose the pedals if needed. Have found a use for it by recording a phrase on piano and leaving it playing through the PA while I wander round to check the sound.
For piano, in the bands I've played with, Rock Piano seems to cut through well in the horn band. The EPs sound great with headphones, but don't have as much punch, it seems, when playing in a group through the PA, although they're decent enough and still sound good.The rock piano has had some use but the basic Grand cuts quite in this five piece lineup. Sounded great for recording last weekend. I do play with a full latin band with horns et al so may try something different for that. The filter sweep can act like a tone control just to cut and boost the edge on the top end too. Gives you a bit more control in conjunction with the Tone dial for mids.
EP isn't one of my favourite sounds in general, but I do like the Pure EP model in the V3 update. I know I criticised some of the FX but the panning tremolo is a lot of fun with a stereo setup. Not really delved into the Wurlys much, found the tip about setting up a rotary patch with 0 movement really helps to give it more of an amp feel.
As I've used the VR-09, I've come to really like the keys. The short travel and solid feel at the bottom of travel are great for me. I'm a piano player (not organ) so I don't miss waterfall keys. And I don't really care about weighed action, since I've been playing synth-style keys so long that I can adapt to almost any keyboard feel, and the VR-09 feels great to me.I can certainly live with them. Adjusted to it fairly quickly but then I never had chance to get used to a hammer action anyway. The edges of the keys are kinder to my hands for smears than my previous MIDI controllers too.
Things that make me happy with the VR-09 include the price and portability, as well as the ease of use - especially for organ. I recently had to use a Nord Electro 2 (I think that's what it was) during a rehearsal, and was AMAZED it didn't have a rotary switch where you'd expect (although its placement does make sense), and I couldn't get the hang of the drawbar buttons. The newer Electos have real drawbars, but you could buy three VR-09s for the same price. For my needs, though, with some time spent setting up registrations, I can use my VR-09 in almost any setting as my only keyboard - so one trip does it, which I love.-Tom
Roughly the same as my thoughts. Lucky enough to share a studio with a Nord Combo 2D, with the drawbars, but while that's a beautiful sound it's too big and limited for what I do. Trying to avoid moving to a 2 manual setup for now, unless I drop the guitar altogether.
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Done a few gigs with my VR-09 now and thought I'd share some thoughts. I'm a distinctly mediocre keys player (mostly coming from the organ side rather than piano) and I'm doubling up on guitar for a funk/pop/reggae band at the moment, using the VR as my single board.
In that respect it's perfect for my needs - it does a lot of sounds reasonably well, it's light and portable and the learning curve is pretty shallow. I have a fairly portable guitar setup so I can do my entire rig in two trips from the car now.
- The organ sounds are just OK, bordering on flat at times. I'm comparing it to the Hammond XM1 and an analog Elka X50 clonewheel. The sounds on the Hammond are far more editable and realistic; the X50 sounds chunkier and grittier, and the key-bed is so far beyond the VR-09 it's barely worth comparing. That said, the XM-1 means bringing a second controller board and the X50 weighs about 3 times what the VR does, so I'm comparing apples and organs there maybe. I'd like a more useful overdrive and leslie simulator with a brake function, but the on-board sounds are great within the context of a band. Disappointed the combo organ sounds aren't slightly more aggressive but they're mostly an afterthought for modern boards at the best of times so I'll take what I can get. There seems to be a faint hint of the top footage at all times regardless of how you set the leakage or drawbar settings. It gets more noticeable with distortion and Type 1 Leslie but I've only really heard it through headphones so I can live with it.
- Piano sounds are adequate for my purposes and I'm not a connoisseur by any means. Found the basic grand piano sound can be a bit dull so I set up a dual layer with the same sound an octave above; I keep this low in the mix and bring it in and out for sparkle as I feel.
- I'm not as put off by the keybed as I thought I would be. I miss the waterfall keys for percussive passages and smears but have got by so far, even in the bubble-reggae parts. I think the high trigger action helps in that respect. I've never been much of a piano player and have terrible technique on non-organ boards so can't say I miss the hammer action. The compressor balances out my jerky dynamics a little, and while I don't want it to become a crutch for bad technique it's nice to have as an option.
- I'd like more control over the effects and delays, even if it had to be through a separate interface like the iPad synth. Doesn't have to be complicated and depth/rate options would be perfect for my needs. At the moment the phasers and auto-wah are quite flat sounding to the point of being useless.
- The looper is a toy, useless for live performance. Only 20 seconds and if I want to set up a new loop I have to jump through eleventy button presses to come out of looper and reset a fresh one. It's ok for setting up a rhythm vamp to practice over.
- Using the VR-09 with a second controller board is a bit of a mixed bag. I've got a stage piano in the studio that I have hooked up as a second controller, and while I liked being able to do an organ/piano split I didn't like not being able to play layered sounds off the hammer-action board. I have some pianos set up with dual octave sounds and it would be nice to have the option of choosing which action I want for different registrations. I'm going to investigate into this further but don't think it's possible.
- Setting up splits is a pain. It's not difficult but in the heat of the gig I always seem to end up with the sound I wanted on the bottom instead of the top because I pressed the buttons in the wrong order. Not a deal killer because of the registrations, but I'm wary of trying to set up a split in the middle of a show and resent that slight impedance to spontaneity. We aren't an improv heavy band but I like to switch things up according to how we're playing, so having functions and FX available without menu diving so I can play it like a self-contained instrument rather than just a soundboard is important.
Overall I'm pretty happy with it. I'd consider upgrading to a Nord Electro at some point as I feel it would cover my organ needs better and I love the big red cheese look (probably because I also have one of the Yamaha combo organs in that colour scheme) but it's more than I need right now.
Roland V-Combo VR-09
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
The software will give you more editing options, but if you've already explored the menu options and are still not enjoying the organ I'd say you're better off looking for a secondhand Nord Electro or similar. The NE has a fairly excellent Farf, Vox, and a bunch of simple interface FX to get psychedelic with.