Alan Steinberger
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Posts posted by Alan Steinberger
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...my hunch is Alan's EQ settings have a lot to do with his satisfaction level. Mine certainly did. I was able to dial in a better piano sound out of my SSv.3 from my NS2 than I could with my CP4.
When testing I kept all the SSv3 settings on both units at noon, and only brightened up the Rhodes sound a bit via the Nord front panel. Didn't touch the Royal Grand piano EQ.
Other than manufacturing variance or severe quality control issues, which seems unlikely, the only thing I can figure is that my needs (using this primarily as a stage monitor with large orchestras) generally top out at lower volume levels than those of you commenting on a big difference between original and Lite versions. Testing up to about 100 dB, I found effectively no difference between the two units, and my new one sounds the same as well.
(Side note: my friend Chris, who helped with my testing, is a very happy CP4 owner. But he was blown away by the Nord/SSv3 combo, and the Royal Grand sample in particular.)
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Oh, and fourth winner is that Nord Royal Grand 3D dummy head piano sample, first mentioned here by cphollis. That makes for an excellent pairing with the Spacestation's M/S reproduction.
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Purchased a Spacestation Lite today. Same conclusion as with the unit I tested a week or so ago: the sound is either identical to or slightly brighter and clearer than my original. And 30.8 pounds is a winner.
Second winner is that On-Stage RS4000 folding tiltback amp stand. Wish I had bought one at least a year ago, and not wasted so much time trying to make their tripod model suffice.
Third winner is the suggestion (Aspen's, as I recall) that in small venues one should try aiming the Spacestation towards the back wall. What a difference!
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Can you give us more detail about when you added a sub Alan? Position, hook-up, sound etc.
It was only after Chris and I decided that any difference between the two Spacestations was a wank, or that we had an ever so slight preference for the sound of what turned out to be the new one.
I then added a B1 bass module from my Bose L1 Model II system, powered by a PackLite Model A1 amp. I had it sitting several inches away from the front of the side speaker (stage left of the SSv3). I plugged the left side of the Nord into the A1, then came out its pass thru into the left input on the Spacestation. (The levels were a better match doing it this way rather than using the sub out.) Chris, sitting at the keyboard, didn't immediately notice the difference when I switched it on, but then missed the extra warmth the moment I switched it off.
I'm going to play around, perhaps in a few days, with sending the bass module a groomed signal by way of a mixer send into an EQ, or a separate out from MainStage with a low pass filter inserted. Clearly there are better, certainly more versatile choices for use as a sub in a non-Bose setup; it's just what I had handy.
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I had an opportunity to spend a few days testing the new slimmed down version of the Spacestation, and putting it up against my unit made nearly 2½ years ago.
Long story short: in a double-blind shootout both I and a golden ears friend and colleague, keyboardist/composer Chris Rhyne, had a very slight preference for the sound of the new one as compared to mine. The new one has a fractionally clearer sound, the fact that it's about 9 pounds lighter is a huge benefit, and I love that the knobs no longer stick out slightly.
In our testing the variables which made far more of a difference in sound, rather than the composition of the cabinet or difference in power supplies, were proximity to a wall, addition of a sub, or simply making minor adjustments to the onboard EQ on my Nord. Chris commented that he'd be delighted to take either Spacestation home with him.
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I think this might have been done already in Season 4 of this thread...
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I'm using the Spacestation as my stage monitor with the LA Philharmonic at the Hollywood Bowl this evening for Back to the Future, and it's working great! Our golden ears FOH engineer came by before this morning's rehearsal and was blown away by the box.
Cameras aren't allowed on stage, but if any YouTube videos surface later, I'm downstage right (behind the 1st violins), with the Spacestation directly behind me.
http://www.hollywoodbowl.com/tickets/back-future-concert-30th-anniversary/2015-06-30
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Earlier this evening I had the pleasure of hearing Dave Ferris on my Nord/SSv3 setup in a 1000+ seat auditorium. I walked around the room as he was playing some jazz standards, and found that both tone and volume were remarkably consistent regardless of where I stood, not unlike what I've been used to with the Bose L1 (but in stereo).
That was a nice sound check, and a lovely opportunity to hear a talented artist...
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Just playing the CP4 through it this afternoon, the amp sounds the best with sounds that have tremolo, vibrato, chorus or other swirling type effects associated with it. As opposed to just straight acoustic piano.
Dave, I've done several concerts on the Hall of Liberty stage at Forest Lawn. That room is so dead it's almost an anechoic chamber. (Fill in your own joke about playing in a funeral parlor.)
I've added fairly liberal amounts of room reverb to my Nord piano, and while it's certainly not nearly as dramatic as a stereo Rhodes or swirly B3, at least the SSv3 manages to add back a bit of life to the sound.
We have another concert coming up in a week and a half. You're welcome to swing by one of the rehearsals if you want to try my rig in that unforgiving space.
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+1 to the Nord Electro.
I have a gig coming up that specifically requires DX-style Rhodes. It's painful revisiting 1985 while auditioning those 6 operator FM synthesis samples.
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...BUT this could easily be addressed with a remote panel that controls the same aspects as the four knobs on the back of the box.
A really good example of that would be the remote from the first generation of Bose L1 systems. It connected via 7 pin MIDI cable, and offered only tone and volume controls. I think I might still have one kicking around - I'll bring it and, for contrast, a Bose T1 (far more elaborate remote) over to Aspen's shop one day.
In the meantime, has anyone experimented with varying the send to the two SSv3 inputs? I wonder if increasing or decreasing the right side relative to the left (or simply panning one's mixer output) would affect the perceived width.
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...that "farting" sound sometimes reported was a simple fix to block one of the 1/4" ports at the back of the ss....
Brett
Boy, did I misread that post. Amazing how one's mind tries to fill in missing letters...
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Yes, it's stereo, hence "duplex". Radial makes several with Jensen transformers, but only one JDI Duplex.
[Actually, upon looking at their site more closely they may be using duplex to refer to multiple inputs with summing, since they also have a JDI Stereo.]
Always smart to use passive DIs even if your mixer has XLR outs and switchable output level...
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Thanks. Why run monitor post-DI though? Don't you lose independent volume control for it out of (say) CR outs?
Yes, I'm then reliant on the monitor's volume control unless I add another piece of gear post-DI. But when someone from the sound crew comes up and says "we're only getting one side of the keys", by monitoring off the DIs I know instantly if it's a problem on their end, not mine.
But as you can tell by the scratched out bit in my previous post, I am considering changing things around. The MOTU UltraLite AVB has some awfully nice features, like being able to run the mixer from my iPhone or having a built-in high pass filter, and I want to incorporate more of them this summer.
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Where is mixer in that signal chain--pre- or post-DI?
If the question was directed towards me, for big stages my rig would usually include soft synths, so the audio interface main outs would go straight to direct boxes, and then out the DI pass-throughs to my monitor du jour. (If no soft synths, then substitute a small mixer pre-DI for the audio interface.)
I'm going to start utilizing more of the options in my interface, though, so I may drive the SSv3 with a pair of alt outs for this summer's concerts.
Scratch that - I just remembered that a big benefit of using the parallel outs on the DIs is speed in tracking down cable issues or a bum direct box. I would lose that benefit if I use the alt outs.
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...there are a whole host of potential problems that a DI will fix. Rather than have to deal with troubleshooting issues when they come up on the fly and try to figure out if you need to hook everything up different and try a DI, I just believe it's a best practice to be consistent and use the DI all the time, then you just avoid all of that hassle.
So to me, it would seem there are 2 possible best practice scenarios:
1) Stereo FOH: Run L/R through a stereo DI, run stereo to FOH, and loop out stereo into the SS3. If using a sub, use the SS3 sub out to the sub unless you really want to filter the lows, then loop stereo through the sub into the SS3
2) Mono FOH: run direct L/R to the SS3, sub out to DI, mono to FOH, if using a sub, loop out DI to sub. In this scenario, depending on the sub, I don't know that there's a good way to filter lows from the SS3 without running into other potential issues that could require troubleshooting at a gig.
Really wonderful advice, J. Dan, and that's exactly what I do: direct boxes always first in line for the big stages, sub out for the jazz clubs.
The only thing I might add is to always use passive DIs on keyboards, not active, for an extra layer of ground isolation. I always carry a Radial JDI Duplex in my problem solving bag.
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Anyone know of a simple, cheap, in line high-pass filter I could insert between the SS and my Mackie Thump (12") that I was planning to use as a sub?
It would be especially great if said device also had a direct-pass through to feed the FOH
If you happen to be using an audio interface (a MOTU UltraLite or similar) for soft synths, you might already own all the high-pass filtering you need, either in the interface itself or as a DAW plug-in. If the device has multiple outs, you'd also have every pass-through option available for FOH.
I have a gig coming up with unusual amplification requirements, and I'm planning on sending pipe organ pedals via a dedicated output to a sub, and everything else greater than about 100 cycles (celesta, tack piano and the organ manuals) probably to the SSv3. Since my synth sounds are all coming from the laptop, I'll use the UltraLite AVB in lieu of a separate mixer.
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Had a real bad weekend dealing with my wife, who fell and re injured her spine Friday. I spent most the day and night in the emergency room w/ her. She now has 4 fractured vertebrae and can't move much...so we haven't slept much since Friday.
I missed a gig Sunday at the Lighthouse with a 18 piece jazz band and Geoff playing his SS3...sorry Geoff...I was really looking forward to that! But it's been touch and go these last few days and not much sleep as she's in extreme pain with not much I can do. But today we made some progress and she's upright and able to walk a bit with a walker. Spinal injuries are a real bitch, it's gonna be a long slow recovery and everything else has kinda been on hold since Friday.
I'm so sorry to hear this, Aspen. I hope life returns to normal for both of you as quickly as possible.
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If it's at all possible please let us know the next time something's going on around here.
Since you asked, I'll be at Typhoon (at the Santa Monica airport) this Monday with an aggressive big band. I'm sure you know what an acoustic challenge that room can be, what with the odd shape and all hard surfaces. If you feel like coming out, please say hi.
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Thanks guys, great info and advice.
Two last questions and I'm picking up the phone:
1. if you're driving a sub with the mono out AND also sending to FOH ... you _______?
- send the ssv3 mono out to the sub and your mixer out to FOH, or ?
- what other creative signal path solutions have you guys devised? (seriously, you guys are so fricken clever, I learn something every day here - really appreciate this forum's existence!)
2. For smaller venues without FOH, or more likely for rehearsals, does the SSV3 drive enough rocking volume for rock n roll bands. Bands like, oh, to randomly list bands I currently play in: Bon Jovi, Cars, UFO, David Bowie, Foreigner ... bands with loud bass players, guitarists (I know, loud and guitarist is redundant) and drummers raised by wild animals? we like to rock, not sure if other ssV3'ers have similary loud rock needs as me?
1. Plug the SSv3 ¼" mono output into a direct box. Plug the pass thru output of the direct box into the sub input. (This is assuming mono FOH.)
2. You may possibly not have enough volume, however the keys will take advantage of less-cluttered sonic spectrum off to the sides of the sound field.
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SS3 owners or Aspen may be able to share some insight on the extent that the SS3 preserves the location of various elements on the stereo stage from hard left to hard right.
For example an orchestral piece played through the SS3, is the precise positioning of each instrument section location retained when played back through the SS3?
Similarly is the top octave on an AP sound mostly heard from the right side speaker and bottom octave mostly from the left? - assuming SS3 controls are flat and it is reproducing the stereo image as determined by the board.
Precise L/R positioning? No, that has not been my experience. But that's not what an orchestra or an acoustic piano sounds like to me, either. One hears directional cues, for sure, but the Spacestation was not designed to replace your studio monitors when recording.
This comes much closer to replicating the feeling of listening to an orchestra in a concert hall, or playing a piano in a reverberant room. There's different "stuff" happening across a broad sound field, all interacting in a sonically pleasing way.
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Good luck with Cahuenga, La Jolla, or my favorite: Port Hueneme.
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Hey, give me back that missing "-er"! :-)
I don't own the Neumann. What I have are in-ear monitors that contain high quality mics from which we can record. The dummy head would be my own skull, an appropriate choice on so many levels.
Sometime this weekend, Aspen? Or Tuesday, fire-roasted peanut day?
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So here's a question. Who here uses (or wants to use) the Spacestation but not for keyboards?
I'm an electric cellist who has wanted a full stereo sound since I heard John Scofield live with two chorusing Sundown amps.
For those of you non-keyboardists who have tried it, what do you think?
My wife and I are planning a visit with Aspen soon, and she's a professional cellist. I'll see if I can talk her into recording some Bach unaccompanied on her NS 5-string. (She's not an improviser.)
I've had a thought, anyway, of doing a dummy head recording of the SS in Aspen's studio, so maybe we can kill two birds, so to speak...
Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back
in The Keyboard Corner
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Hi Dave, and will do. That's actually where we did the double-blind shootout. There's a young Pilates trainer who was quite baffled when I asked her to position the two Spacestations while my back was turned (so that I wouldn't know which was the older/heavier one).
By the way I gave out your name just last week for what was likely a dreadful rehearsal band. Sorry about that.