hrestov
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Posts posted by hrestov
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Start to different the sounds, and listen to it, on YouTube or your keyboard.
I think there are categories and sub categories of sound:KEYBOARD SOUNDS:
- acoustic piano
- electric pianos:
- rhodes
- Wurlitzer
- clavinet
- cp80- digital piano:
- dx7 yamaha electric piano
- organ
- hammond
- transistor organ (vox continental, farfisa)
- Synth: there is a lot of synth type of sounds, it’s too long to explain…
NON KEYBOARD SOUNDS (that often keyboardist play)
- strings
- brass
Each category has their rules and are like a different instrument, with their parameters. And also with their effect chains. For example acoustic piano only reverb, electric pianos are similar to a guitar often (so amp simulator, sometimes chorus, delay, wha wha), hammond have the drawbars, so can make very different sounds, etc etc.
Start to do what you need, and for each song make a research in Google or ask a question here.
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Camelot pro is the center of my hardware and auv3 setup. It managed hardware sounds, app, split, layer, music sheet, backing track. Always.
I think now it’s impossibile for me to play live without it.
For others app of sounds I think that vb3m is the one I use more.
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But he wants an app for ipad, not computer. And for ipad there are only two Vst host: Camelot pro and Keystage. Aum is a different thing, it's a mixer, and isn't optimized for live use.
The "simplicity" that Camelot guys are referrring I think is for the hardware management, that you can recall the preset in your keyboard not with bank/prog change, but using the name of preset that you have in your keyboard. That make thing easier.
For Auv3 management is quite similar to other vst host, but each vst host has their own methods.
Scene rack, Song rack and Setlist rack are fondamental to optimize the use of Auv3, they permit you to have seamless transition between sounds, and to don't load auv3 that you are not using in that song.
I use Camelot in 4-5 bands. One stage piano (Yamaha Cp73), mainly for acoustic and electric pianos, plus often a master keyboard, and auv3 for other sounds (hammond, bass, brass, strings, synth of all type, orchestral, loop, sample). Camelot manage them in a good way. And very stable. Also manage sheet and chords, and backing tracks. I think there is only one fault to be perfect: you can't assign the exposed parameters of auv3 to midi controller, so if the auv3 don't have a midi implementation of its own you can't move its a parameter with a phisical controller. By the way, most instrument app have a midi implementation (but effects not too much), so there isn't a problem.
I don't know if Keystage is better or not, I haven't tried it.
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I use Camelot, because it’s quite the only one for iPad (there is also keystage that I don’t have). It’s quite simple if you know what you do. I already have esperience with other vst host for computer, cantabile and Forte. So I already knew how a vst host work.
to open a plug-in, in iPad, just double click on it.
In any case, there are much tutorial in YouTube in “audio modelling” page.
Camelot is quite simple, but do so much things that is impossibile to be very very simple.
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I do me too. When you go to bury the app it appears a disclaimer that said that you a have just buy this app and ir let install it.
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Yes, but also if you use stereo a 30% of crowd will listen only L and 30% only R, because you mainly listen the nearer speaker. A 40% listen both, but I think only 10/20% could listen both in a good stereo sweet spot. (Obviously it depends from the gig and the speakers position).
So finally the question could be not which is the best way to get a mono good sound, but which keyboard have a good sound also if you listen only one side, because most people will listen only one side.
For me nord pianos is not good if you only listen one side. They are too much wide. Yamaha is less wide. Roland and Korg and other I don’t know. -
We have to do a protest to Keyboard manufacturers to force them to do a more “live friendly” piano samples. Nobody cares in a live situation that from a speaker come out the basses and from other the highs… it doesn’t make sense…
if you listen a real piano from 2 meters it is quite a mono source.
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I think that only nord try to solve the phase cancellation with the “mono” button, they probably doesn’t do the simple L+R. But when I tried the mono button I at last prefer to use only R. But the problem is that all nord pianos are much stereo oriented, so they doesn’t sound good from one speaker. now I have a yamaha Cp73, the Cfx is good with the R output (the best mono piano that I play). Less good with the L+R output.
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I’d put nord electro in Cp’s input and then an xlr from Cp to the Qsc. Xlr output of Cp have more volume than jack.
I prefer use the R output, I like Cfx so. I don’t like R+L.
for ventilator I think that you could use only one side also.
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In this link Ziokiller (Guido Scognamiglio) say that. But I don’t know if earlier versions had tp100…
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Directly from Guido Scognamiglio:
”Seven = TP100
Seventeen = TP110
Seventeen Parsifal= TP40H a 3 contatti “And he said also that has the same software of seventeen, so modelled Rhodes and the other sounds are sampled.
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I don’t know. Also for me, with casio cts 500, that have a lightweight action, I prefer the Cfx of just piano Than Pianoteq.
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I’m not an expert of placing mics.
but these are the photos when they sampled the Cfx.
Link photos -
The samples are from 1 to 3 giga. It depends from the connection. I don’t think hours, but 20-30 minutes.
but the idea of the app is not to change the sample every time, but to keep the same sample in.for me Cfx is the best. I have it in the iPad. Try the Bechstein in iPhones, I prefer the Cfx.
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They have also sampled a Bechstein and the sample came out a week ago.
It’s a great thing that they give you also the new samples that they make.
And also a felt upright u1.
This is all the pianos:
- Cfx
- Steinway model D
- yamaha C5 grand
- grand C1
- grand C1 open
- Bechstein
- upright U1 felt
in the app justpiano you can load only one sample at a time. In the app genuine sound module you can load what you want.
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I don’t use in ear. But I think that, in mono, the lack of a “virtual room” can be unpleasant. So Theoretically if the Foh can give you only a mono signal , you could put it by your own a little reverb/ambient effect, also with a little mixer, maybe the listing could be more enjoyable and create a virtual rooms.
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5 hours ago, cassdad said:
What brand / model / Voice are you using?
Yamaha Cp73, Cfx sample.
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3 hours ago, cassdad said:
Well, this thread spurred me on to try a little experiment which I did today. My new Motion Sound KP-612SX has several “outs” (see pic)…. 2 of them being “Left Out” and “Right Out” (both XLR, assumedly for feeding FOH or recording). Surprisingly, it also has a single 1/4 inch jack Out labeled “Mono Out”. So I played piano and concurrently recorded 3 tracks into Logic Pro: Left & Right Outs to tracks 1 & 2, and Mono Out to Track 3. Then, listening thru headphones, I alternated playing back just tracks 1 & 2, and then just track 3. (I also played back all 3 tracks at the same time, but no conclusions from that). The stereo of playing back just tracks 1 & 2 was a far, far better piano sound than just playing track 3 (mono). However, I must say that, the mono (track 3) by itself was not bad…. it was just, well, mono. But I did not hear any glaring negatives, no severe comb filtering, etc. It sounded, let’s say “reasonably good” for mono - exactly what I’d expect.
I do not know what, if any, processing Motion Sound’s “Mono Out” jack/line has (none mentioned in the manual). However, I think I can conclude that if I had to only provide the sound person a “mono” out - this would be acceptable. My 1st preference would still be to provide a left & right XLR and tell them to pan “full left & full right”.
obviously in headphones there is a big difference between mono and stereo samples. But not in the real life.
You have to listen your registration from a pair of speaker. Try L and R in stereo, than mono L+R, than only R, than only R. The differences will be far less than from headphones. -
The flip 180 invert the phase. If you have two mic at the same distance of a source and sum them (for example 2 panoramic mic of a drum at the same distance from the snare) they probably disappear each other. If you flip you sum each other.
But piano samples is different. Every single note of piano have 2 distances from the 2 mics. But this distances are different for every note. There isn’t a common rule, so you can adjust the phase generally in one mic and resolve the problem. Because if you adjust the phase in one note it will go out of phase in another note.
The only possible method for the keyboard company is to record the piano samples with the same distance from the note, so for every note recording move the 2 mics. I don’t think it’s possible. But company sells their keyboard only with a headphones listen by client. So the don’t care too much of mono compatibility.
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In live situation, both in mono or in stereo, you have to avoid pan effects. And also panning patch. It’s useless.
The only problem of taking only R is that you have to eq a little, maybe. And if there is too much differenze of high/low from R/L it means that this piano sample would have problem also in a stereo setting.
i just try this evening to switch my patch from stereo to mono (only R), listening from two speaker in a little/medium room at home. I don’t think that I like more the stereo piano Than the mono… in reality not too much difference, mono is more in face. Stereo is a little more enveloping, but it lose clarity.
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11 hours ago, Reezekeys said:
No, it's combining both L & R channels of a piano sample together that doesn't sound good - creating mono from both L & R, as opposed to the mono sound of one channel as you mention. That "one channel mono" sound might not be too good either, but at least it doesn't exhibit the phase cancellation issues that summing both L & R sides to mono does.
no, if you flip the phase you’ll still have phase cancellations. Different cancellations, in other notes, but still cancellations. It’s impossible to avoid phase cancellation because they depend from the distance between the note played and the two mic. The mics remain in the same position, but the note are in different position.
No mixer can avoid phase cancellation. And also nord keyboards. With nord piano sample there are a lot of phase cancellations. Maybe more than other companies, also with mono button.
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In mono isn’t good for phase cancellation. Because 2 mics records the same sound, but from different distances, so different phase. And when you sum the same sound with a different phase a part of the sound is cancelled. There is no solution, because the distance from the source is different for every note. So if you change, for example the phase of R o L you solve the phase cancellation in some notes, but make worse in other notes.
if you use only one mic (so you take only R or L) you have not phase cancellation, but you have more prominent sound from the right part of the keyboard (or left part). Generally with eq you can re balance that.
Personally I use stereo, but if they asked me mono I get only R output. I make my sounds and I balance volumes listening only R. I don’t use stereo effects. I don’t pan patch. I monitor from R if o had one monitor and in stereo it I had in ear.
yamaha piano (Cfx in yamaha Cp73) sounds good from R output. Nord pianos doesn’t sound good in no mono ways (L, R or L+R)
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Yes you have to trust the Foh. But you also have to give him a good sound. And a sound that only sound good in stereo isn’t a good sound. Especially piano patch, we must have a sound that s good also in mono.
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The few times I use the Cfx was in mono from only output R. I compare to the Cfx of Yamaha Cp73 and it’s similar.
And I think that Yamaha Cp73 Cfx is one of the best mono sounding acoustic piano.
Noob Question: Getting the sounds
in The Keyboard Corner
Posted
Also, for learning, you can try to buy some multitrack backing tracks, that you can achieve in site like “karaoke version”. So you can have, for each song, the multitracks with isolated sounds, and with their name of category. So it could be simpler to achieve the sound you want, and different the different sounds in a song.
(sorry for my poor english)