[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

7 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Roland SA instruments had completely seamless velocity response for the 128 midi velocity values way back in the 80s. Not the same technology probably as what the OP is talking about, but it achieved the same practical results.

 

Roland's SA technology is actually a precursor of their SuperNatural synthesis. This is from an Electronic Musician article from 2008:

 

"After the press conference, I talked with Toshio Yamabata, the director of
Roland R&D; Shun Takai, an engineer who has been working on the technology
directly; and Mike Kent, manager of technical relations for Roland
R&D. They confirmed that SuperNatural, which the company has been quietly
developing over the past two decades, is indeed an outgrowth of SA.
As was the case with SA, the first step in creating a SuperNatural program
is separating the various elements of the target sound—for example, the
string and bow of a violin as well as the frequency, time, and phase components.
These elements are then utilized to reconstruct the sound using an
additive technique with complex waveforms from the original sound, along
with modeled components and wave-table synthesis."

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

15 minutes ago, El Lobo said:

wow. geeking out on being in the weeds on this. you can hear the Nord piano library here: 

https://www.nordkeyboards.com/sound-libraries/nord-piano-library

 

You have to play the sounds on an actual Nord keyboard to hear it.

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

9 minutes ago, cphollis said:

Fun topic.  I now want to go do a bit of homework on the psychoacoustic side, e.g. how do our ears perceive different approaches to morphing audio waveforms?   

 

A version of this arises when debating digital sampling rates vs. real analog, or whether 127 values are enough for velocity midi information vs playing a real piano.

 

If the ear can't detect the quantization, does it matter?

 

I believe Vienna Symphonic Library sampled 127 or more layers for their latest pianos https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Synchron_Package/Synchron_Pianos_Bundle

I haven't played them, but I'm pretty sure the transitions between the layers are very smooth.

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

Getting back to Yamaha... the CFX piano in the Montage/MODX doesn't have sample interpolation... you can tell because you can actually get into all the parameters via the edit menus, right down to the wavesamples. I'd be curious to know if people find the CFX to have smoother velocity transitions when implemented on the non-user editable pianos, like CP88, P515, various consoles...?

 

This is exactly what I'm dying to find out. I'd love to hear from Yamaha CP88/P515 and Nord Piano/Stage users if there are any audible velocity transitions. (I should have included Yamaha in the title of my original post.) Why did Yamaha decide not to include this sample interpolation or related advanced technology in their top of the line synthesizer/workstation Montage. Are there technical restrictions or was it a product policy decision.

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

I don't think Yamaha does either, except possibly in the SCM pianos which I don't believe are available in any current product.

 

Yamaha uses sample interpolation on all or most of their digital pianos. They just don't mention it anymore because it has become a standard feature. The Yamaha AvantGrand N3 from 2009 had no audible velocity layer switching. http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/1391594/Re: The DP BSD Project!.html#Post1391594

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

Cphollis, may I ask what Nord and Yamaha models you own? I'm interested in knowning when Clavia (and Yamaha) began do implement the technology.

The math associated with smoothly interpolating two sample waveforms may be well understood, but it still took two specialists at Synthogy 3 years (!) to program it for sampled piano waveforms. (This information is from a reliable source that knows the company.) Kurzweil and Korg do not (yet) have this technology AFAIK. That's one of the reasons they don't sell as many home digital pianos as Yamaha and Kawai. The standard piano sounds on the Kurzweil Forte and the Korg Kronos have 8 clearly audible velocity layers. They do use filters to make the velocity switching less jarring, but that does not make them smooth. Users of synthesizer workstations don't mind the audible velocity switching on the piano sounds as much as users of home digital pianos do. The main piano sound on the Yamaha Montage has 8 layers that are not smoothly blended like on a Yamaha stage or home piano AFAIK.

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

14 hours ago, cphollis said:

^^^^ What he said.

 

I've been using sampled digital pianos for many years, but have never heard that term.  It sounds like something a marketing department would come up with.

 

As above, if anyone could detect sample switching with Nord (or any other DP), it would be unpleasant, you'd hear about it, etc.  If you're still curious, head over to the Nord User Forum and post over there?

 

This technology is real. Synthogy calls it Sample Interpolation Technology used for ultrasmooth velocity and note transitions https://www.synthogy.com/index.php/products/software-products/ivory-2-studio-grands (see Highlights)

Yamaha first used it on the CP1, I believe. Kawai used it on the MP10 for sure (I owned one). They don't mention it in marketing texts anymore. (I'm not sure they ever did.) People who buy digital pianos from the big three manufacturers (Yamaha, Kawai, Roland) take it for granted these days.

[Question for Nord Piano and/or Nord Stage owners regarding the acoustic piano sounds]

Hi everyone!

I'm trying to find out if Clavia has developed Sample Interpolation Technology for their piano sounds. So my question for Nord owners is: are the velocity layers of the acoustic piano sounds (at least on the newer models) smoothly blended (meaning inaudible)? I'm not planning on buying a Nord Piano anytime soon; it's just the geek in me who wants to know. 🙂

I know that Yamaha, Kawai and Synthogy have developed this very advanced Sample Interpolation Technology for absolutely smooth piano sounds. Roland doesn't use samples for their piano sounds anymore, only physical modeling. I know that at Synthogy it took two highly qualified employees three years to develop this technology! This explains why it is still so rarely used.

My apologies if this topic has been covered before.

[New Viscount Physis K4 & K5 MIDI controllers]

Apart from a thick accent, your English is rather good. :-)