Mr. Jazz Man

I would like to respond to "Stage piano key action and static touch weights". Although this was an in depth chart and took alot of time to develop - we all appreciate that effort very much! Before i saw this thread, i did my own testing sometime ago. The weights i used were gram/milligram set to be accurate not coins then afterwards i had access to a scientific laser device which measures these kind of things for keyboard and piano manufactures with many many perimeters more than i can mention here (chart will be forth coming later includes tests on Bosendorfer 280VC 2015 & 214VC 2015, Steinway B 2015 & D 2015, along with recently Roland RD2000 & Fantom 8 New ver., Yamaha Montage 8, CP4 & CP88.) You have to keep in mind how to measure these keybeds to get accurate results. First you have to take keyboard units that are brand new out of the box and compare them and for new acoustic pianos new sitting in a showroom that have not been moved since out of the manufacture crate etc. For example: A brand new out of the box "Roland RD2000" and A brand new out of the box "Roland new Fantom 8" are the (same) weight down/up, same with A brand new out of the box "Yamaha CP4" and A brand new out of the box "Yamaha CP88", The issues are with your measurements(coins) instead of cert. gram set and the fact that the items have to be "brand new out of the box" for the very true fact that brand new out of the box are the same vs. keybeds that are broken in after months of playing as in my case the aforementioned Rolands and Yamahas down/up weights changed from new vs broken in and varied depending how many hours per day per month i practiced and or performed on. Again after measurements with gram set and newer laser device to get even better results (results will be given at later date) bottom line is brand new Roland RD2000 and broken in(several hours/day per months of use) Roland RD2000 - the measurements will vary alot that is because of the combination of springs, multi layer hammer felt and the grease used on the key points/hammer mechanism does change alot. As far as the acoustics piano goes same thing but not as much because these materials that are used in their manufacture are of far greater quality and don't change much in short same time as does the cheaper made Rolands and Yamahas weighted hammer action. Now i will say based upon personal experience i practice and perform on Bosendorfer 214vc 2015 and Steinway B 2105 both quite alot, the Steinway B has a faster touch vs. Bosendorfer 214vc (overall Steinways have faster touch vs. Bosendorfers when comparing new models against each other) and the NW-GH Yamaha CP88 or CP4 has a faster action than pha-50 Roland RD2000 & New Fantom 8's. Lastly, You have to be careful in testing, new out of the box is different than broken in several months of hard use comparing same models or brands etc. In my opinion and professional expertise - the YAMAHA NW-GH is much faster than Roland PHA-50's which most agree that i have heard and again in my professional experience the aforementioned Acoustic Bosendorfers and the Steinways are even faster than the PHA-50 & NW-GH. ***It gets down to or matters: You have to ask yourself if you are serious about what you play or perform on especially if you make a living playing; do you want something to wear your fingers/hands, wrists/arms out - painful arthritis to develop and is like running with a 100lb weight or do you want something that gives you just enough resistance to haul a....s on complicated and or 1/64th note passages at 260 metronome? I know i had a Kawai Redwood Super Grand 1976 and it was brand new and like playing wet concrete or molasses vs. Steinways Concert Grands of that era. The newer Acoustic Yamahas S6 and the CFX 9' actions are harder/slower to play than the Bosendorfer/Steinway for sure. Just my several cents experience...... Good luck ya all.

how do you know the montage 8 has the fulcrum further back, have you opened them both up to know this or do you have photos from the internet that would show this? I would like to see

i have cp1, cp4 and montage all different actions, I like the cp1 for my kind of playing which is very close to my Steinway B 2015 believe it or not, 2nd the montage 8 then last the cp4, the cp4 keybed is such a drag to play