Jazzwee

Nice! I was surprised to hear Wah on the organ...thought maybe I missed some drawbar settings. LOL.

Wow! This is so impressive. Since I'm new at organs, I've never read the old organ threads before and apparently I've been missing a lot. This is amazing!

Mike, unless Jazzmammal, or Zephonic or any of the other local guys have an SK1, I'm out of luck with that. Besides I can't afford it right this moment so there's no rush to look at an SK1. I haven't found a store with a store demo. What I can probably afford is a VR09 and a little more painful, a used XK1C. I have time before I need to think of one board options like the SK1, maybe at the end of the year. Not sure I want to wait till then to learn on an organ though. And if I can afford an SK1, that would also raise the option of an Electro. I suppose that when someone has cash to burn, there's a lot of options. I can see the draw though of the VR09. For $750, it's doable price wise and makes one forgive deficiencies.

Yes Craig, that's a good view of my options. Except if AP is needed then I have to play on weighted keys. So in theory, if I'm playing in a more exposed trio, then I'd want to be more equipped by having AP with weighted. Now in a quartet setting, I would guess that EP/Organ could work (SK1). If I'm going to fork out cash for an XK1C, it would make sense then to wait until I can do afford an SK1 since that's the only that offers a one board option. Or maybe an Electro if I really have cash to burn. I'm debating now if I should get a VR09 for now so that I have something affordable to use and learn, and do some light gigging with, and then plan on upgrading later in the year to an SK1. I'm definitely not going to be able to budget for an SK1 at this point.

Thanks Craig. The only element that I'd like to clarify is that it appears that I have no option but to have a 2-Tier. No one is coming out saying I can survive on an SK1 alone. So given that scenario, the AP/EP sounds are not going to be needed. The bottom board will handle that (Nord Piano). Thus, it becomes possible for the top board to be pure organ as long as it's light weight. I gather though that in addition to the cost of the board, I'll have to figure in the expression pedal as well. I hope that's it.

Yes, that was one of the annoying interface issues mentioned in the SOS article. There's no quick mute for the organ sound, other sounds are layered over it. The solution is to create an ogran preset that is silent (i.e. 000000000 ) and select that when you want to only hear the non-organ ("layered") sound. So I wasn't losing my mind! I thought maybe I was missing some special button somewhere. Also the volume of the "other sounds" was much lower, I guess since they functioned mostly as layers. This confirms the inapplicability of the VK8 for use as a single board. But looks like good for pure organ.

I think I'm able to refine my thoughts now based on the excellent debate here. I gather from the commentary here that learning how to play some amount of organ, enough to play it at (jazz) gigs is something I can do in a few short months. If I am incorrect in my assessment here please speak up. Given this possibility, I can state that it will not be possible to gig with the VK8. I'm not able to carry 2 heavy boards (Nord Piano) nor fit it in my car. I currently use a Quiklok WS550 and this means changing the configuration to do 2 tier. And that means bringing a larger stand. So as much as I'm attracted to the VK8 feel, it's not going to be a practical choice. Unfortunately, the other sounds on the VK8 were unusable. I couldn't even get a straight piano, EP sound out of it. It constantly sounded like a layer over organ. So it cannot be used as a single board option. This leaves only the lightweight board options. VR09, XK1C, SK1. The issue seems to be (a) buy the cheapest now (VR09) and start playing with it and perhaps upgrade later, (b) Save up money and buy the best option - probably SK1 so I can graduate to using one board on occasion. Chime in if you think I'm analyzing this incorrectly. EDIT: Just to add to the type of organ playing I would expect to be doing: Full Combo - Trio or Quartet (with Sax). Jazz/Funk. Can always skip the LH. No learning about bass pedals.

No one responded to my earlier questions but related to deciding on VK8 or VR09 is: How long does it take for a pianist to pick up organ technique, at least good enough to gig in a combo setting (jazz)? If it is something I can pick up in a short time, then I might as well target an actual gigging keyboard (VR09, XK1C -- it will have to be some small board since I need AP on the bottom) If it will take awhile to learn, then i might as well get the cheapest (VK8, or some cheap Spinet) and learn for awhile and resell later to get a proper pro board. From what I know now, VK8 can't be used for gigging since I can't carry two heavy boards and the extra sounds are deficient for my purposes. Right now, I gig with 80% AP sounds and 20% EP. Sometimes it's hard for the AP to cut in the mix and lately we've been expanding the set list so that organ sounds could be good.

You don't mention the narrow black keys though. That was probably the most uncomfortable to me. I guess because I primarily play acoustic piano and am used to consistent key sizes, the shortness of the length of the key and then the narrowness of the black keys is intimidating. But you guys are saying you overcame that and I don't really know much about organ technique so perhaps I'm overreacting to that.

Craig, one of the reasons I posted here was that the other thread was totally pro-SK1/XK1C so it's good to see the other side. As a non-organ player (wanting to learn), obviously I don't know the fine points of the organ sound other than the obvious control of the drawbars and such. So I look for what inspires me to play. My initial gut reaction was I was inspired to play the VK8 (because of the keys) and the VR09 had that key spacing issue and very narrow black keys. It's a little disconcerting for sure because it felt like a toy. I had no issue with the VK8 as far as organ. Now some other thoughts to add here. There's two steps here. Initially I have to LEARN how to use an organ first so my concern is learning organ technique. And I'm intending to play Jazz so some more involved Rock sounds may not be so important. So being that learning will not be instant, this could be a two step process (particularly with the budget concern which is real). I could buy something now, and learn, and then settle on something for gigging a little later. BTW when I get to that point, I have other options including selling the Nord Piano and upgrading to a Nord Stage 2 but it is unlikely I will give up Hammer action. The issues of a gigging instrument become different. I can't lug a VK8 and a Nord Piano. That's out of the question. So when that time comes, I either have to get an All-in-one instrument or a very light clone. Thus the XK1C and VR09 would be the good options for that. In the meantime, I do have a budget, and as much as I would want to GAS for something that has better keys and all the fancy features, I can't afford it right now. Scenarios include thinking only about learning and getting ANYTHING that's cheap. VK8, Spinet, etc. with the intention of reselling it later. Correct me if I'm wrong here but if I resold the VK8, I'd likely recover the entire cost. If I buy new (VR09) I'd have to keep it. I'm totally outside of my comfort zone here because I actually have no idea how long it takes to learn organ technique (starting from being a pianist) to use it in gigs. So if this is a short term process, then obviously it changes the idea of what to buy since gigging will come sooner rather than later. BTW - although my main thing is jazz, we do the occasional Santana and that's when I just wish I had an organ. EP just doesn't work for that. I definitely want to keep my purchase at under $1K (for this learning phase). But if I can't decide, then, I'll have to patiently wait for used.

Boy, the exchange you guys are having is exactly what's going on in my head. As far as bias goes, understand that I don't know how to play organ. So you can see why my reaction is highly biased towards keyboard feel because I play piano and my gigs are all piano gigs. Everything you all say has good points. Now SSM (and Moe) has been touting the XK1C but understanding that I am on a budget for a one time purchase, I'm just curious about the comments about the keyboard feel of that XK1C. Is this plasticky too? The VK8 felt really good keyboard wise. And my impression of the sound was good. The price was $799. The "other" sounds do not play properly so I presume someone messed with the programming of the thing. I'll have to continue this post later since I have to leave and I have more thoughts.

Just so we are clear, there's a VK8 for sale in addition to the widely available VR09. I don't see availability of other models at this point at least on Ebay or CL. I did quite enjoy playing the VR09 synth N brass sounds. Those could really be handy in a gig. But just wished the keys were more substantial.

I went back to the store to look at the VR09 and the VK8. The problem is that the VK8 has the shitty "other" sounds but the feel of the keys is comfortable for a piano player learning organ. The other VK8 problem was that I couldn't figure out the interface. The VR09 had those tiny black keys that kind of gave me a little discomfort. But I went there WANTING to like the VR09. Now notice I didn't really have a problem with either organ. For Jazz playing it doesn't seem like the range of sound options are as wide. So I'm left undecided. More research.

SSM, if a board has more sounds, then I can leave the other at home instead of a two tier. The problem is that if I'm uncomfortable with the feel of the keys, then i can't play anything. The VR09 was high up in the store so perhaps I didn't really get a good try. I reacted quickly to the feel of the keys and kind of pulled back. I'm planning on looking again today, If the VK8 has an acceptable EP sound it could also be a single board option. It is unlikely the piano would be useful.

I read somewhere that the VR09 engine is from the VK8. Is this true? How does the VR09 compare to the VK8? I went to the store to look at the VR09 (I know nothing about organs), and found a used VK8 next to it. My main reaction was that I liked the keyboard feel of the VK8. But it is an older board though the price of the two were pretty close (VK8 cheaper by $100).