stoo schultz

Looking forward to hearing your report on the ES120, Jazz. Thanks for the alert.

Well, all I can say is that this is very subjective, and your reaction might be different. It's really not a good situation for folks who don't have access to a good showroom -- it's just not ideal for a good A/B by this method of ordering a delivery and sending back under the 30-day return. It really helps to have several boards nearby to check back and forth. Best of luck to you whatever you decide, CyberGene.

I spent a couple hours yesterday playing the Numa X 73 in a showroom before coming to this thread, and was about to post here but it would have been almost exactly what Dockeys just said above. I went back and forth between the Numa and other boards (Nord, Yamaha CP, Kawai, Casio) and found that the sound/action for the acoustic pianos on the Numa just don't mesh for me the way they do for the other stage pianos. Maybe there are adjustments that could improve the connection between the mechanism and the sound response, I don' t know and didn't explore those possibilities. Just more enjoyment and expressiveness playing the other latest stage pianos, and not as much on the Numa. The key action, all by itself, actually felt good for the low weight category, was quiet with no after-bounce. So, for a solo playing experience with classical/jazz, probably not a board I would choose. Of course this is 100% subjective! Unfortunately there was no 88 with the heavier action on hand to compare. Other than that, the other features and design all seem exceptional.

I was 13, was devastating for us kids when we heard they broke up, but then Let it Be came out, so we thought "hey, maybe they didn't really break up after all!" since it was plain as day on the big screen that they were still together. But we just switched our fan energy from Beatles to McCartney's solo album, and then John's. KINK radio in Portland would play entire albums on Sundays, and they played John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band, and we taped the album and played it over and over, trying to figure out if John was serious or not in "God" but sadly seemed he was, and the dream was over. And, we'd just have to carry on. It seemed like that song was written for me personally. But, they might as well still be together, because the songs are timeiess.

So, can somebody confirm that the only differences between the two versions (Numa X Piano 88 and Numa X Piano GT) are: 1. The keyboard action (TP110 versus TP40 Wood) 2. Escapement in the GT 3. The wood side panels on the GT 4. Resulting weight (14 versus 22 kg)? The sounds and brains are identical?

The weight (~50 lbs) rules it out as a gigging board for me. As a studio instrument that rarely needs to move, very interesting, but is it competitive against weighted hammer controllers, using virtual instruments? The latter seem more versatile to me.

Another way to look at it -- a diminished scale is the first four notes in two minor scales a tritone apart. And you can play both with 1234 in the RH, or 4321 in the LH. So in this case the two scales are C# minor and G minor, or E minor and Bb minor. Diminished scale has 8 tones (plus octave) while all other diatonic scales have 7 notes (+ octave), so it might help to think of it like this as two groups of four notes, which makes it a bit more portable as we're usually familiar with all the minor scales.

Heh, looks like somebody at Sweetwater might have seen this thread, and liked it https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/keyboard-action-and-key-weight-experiment/?utm_content=article1-button&utm_source=insync&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200807-t2

Some people think their tendinitis is caused or worsened by the sudden shock to tendons when the key hits bottom, so seek out DPs with a more cushioned feel (like the P-515 and Kawais). But acoustics usually have a more abrupt key stop than DPs, and tendinitis usually is relieved when playing acoustics. So, maybe the abrupt stop isn't the problem? Not sure, but I suspect a more important cause is the short distance to pivot in all DPs compared to acoustics. The shorter distance requires higher forces for the same volume when playing close to the fallboard. If you practice difficult classical pieces in many key signatures then a DP is always going to require more force, and more awkward force close to the fallboard, than practicing on an acoustic. It just seems intuitive to me that this is more likely to cause finger/wrist problems than an abrupt key stop. The Nord Grand is in the middle of the pack on the distance to pivot (around 20 cm, same as the Kawais). The DP with the longest apparent distance to pivot is the Yamaha CP4 (22 cm). I suspect the reason for the cushioned key stop in many of these boards is to prevent the force from breaking the subchassis. If the board is lightweight, it's partly due to a lightweight subchassis, which might be less durable and require more cushioning. My Roland RD700 has an abrupt key stop, and its subchassis has broken four times. Definitely psychologically, the rubbery cushioned stop feels mushy, while the harder stop feels good and satisfying.

Good point, the best action is heavy and the CA98 weighs almost as much as a hybrid, around 200 pounds (though costs less than half). The CA98 action could be the best action that's cheaper than a hybrid.

This is a useful question broken down by weight: Under 300 pounds: one of the hybrid grands (Kawai, Yamaha, Roland) For context, each weighs about 2/3 the weight of a Hammond B3 Under 80 pounds: Kawai MP11SE or Kawai VPC-1 Under 50 pounds: tossup Kawai ES8, Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha P-515 Under 40 pounds: Yamaha CP4 Under 30 pounds: Kawai ES110

Paul on the Hohner Pianet during the Help! sessions

Also considering switching from Roland to Kurz as main board, possibly Forte or PC4. For me the reason was equip failure -- the RD subchassis has broken 4 times, each time replaced by new subchassis -- there is a design flaw there, no desire to chance that again.

Yes as we all know from our kid-playing teeter-totter days, a small kid can lift any big kid no matter how heavy, as long as the big kid is sitting up near the pivot. Yes if it feels good that's all that matters -- but there's so much subjectivity and differences in opinion about what feels good (some people don't like the CP4 action at all, some think it's superlative) that I wanted to see if there is any objective number that seemed to capture what people were praising or complaining about. Not easy to quantify! But, I learned a lot and still am. Yeah I was referring to the slabs -- the hybrids and consoles often do have higher pivot lengths. Interestingly, I did measure the Kawai Novus in the table, and my pivot length measurement for that one was 25 cm, calculated from the key angle. So, pretty accurate! Thanks! I wanted to edit the original post to explain all the stuff that I added later after peoples' suggestions, but apparently the editing function disappears after some time interval. But ironically I can edit the table itself! So that's a good suggestion, I can clarify that length is calculated.

Realistically, I don't find it makes any noticeable difference if I bring a lighter board to a gig. The only problem is the lighter boards didn't have enough good sounds or features, until the Kurz PC4 and SP6 came along. As far as I'm concerned now that those exist there's really no reason to lug heavy boards to the vast majority of gigs.