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Hardware build quality is one thing,- firmware/ software bugs and stability is the other.
Since many years, ALL companies release products too early.
In fact you´re their beta tester !

Compared to p.ex. Yamaha and Roland products from 80s/ 90s, almost everything you can buy is more or less crap electronics.
It already begins w/ lead-free solder.

The Yamaha KX88 / 76 and Roland A70, A80, A90 masterkeyboard controllers were build like tanks and are still usable today when not extremely damaged or trashed.
Most of the older Roland RD models had very robust keyboard actions and the Roland/Rhodes MK80 has too.

I was an idiot we I sold my KX88 w/ flightcase and complete set of FC7s, momentary switches and EES M3 velocity transformer for a bargain.
My KX76, KX5, DX7mkII and MK80 still work today,- and w/ some service, even my Oberheim XK does.
But they aren´t very complex MIDI wise and that´s why I needed the Miditemp PMM88 (E) MIDI matrix switcher/ processor.
The latter works like day 1 too and doesn´t introduce any software bug !

Try to find today ...
Today, all software is full of bugs,- at least when diving into it in depth.

Im very careful w/ every purchase since a long time because as a mass product, most pieces of gear are made for the amateur/ home user.

Yes, Fatar actions (p.ex. TP40, all variants) have reputation to be the best,- but that´s only because there aren´t better ones for manufacturers to buy in large quantities and at reduced prices.

And you can find lemons also when choosing Viscount K4 / 5 EX or whatelse.

The Fatar Pitch-/ Modwheel assemblies alone aren´t the best at all,- mechanical wise and quality of pots.
This rules for every brand keyboard using these.

But the majority of potentiol buyers want all as cheap as possible,- so that´s why we have this situation !


A.C.

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Bummer, man. Hopefully they can get this sorted out for the future buyers. There’s a lot to like were it functioning properly.
I know you have a Kurzweil awaiting service, but perhaps a used pc3k8 would check your boxes, or a new repair plan for your existing K board. Good luck in any case.


Chris
Main gear: Yamaha C7, Kronos 2 88, Moog Sub 37, Kurzweil PC2x, Pearl epro, Mac/Logic/AUs
1 member likes this: Mighty Motif Max
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Originally Posted by Redknife
Bummer, man. Hopefully they can get this sorted out for the future buyers. There’s a lot to like were it functioning properly.
I know you have a Kurzweil awaiting service, but perhaps a used pc3k8 would check your boxes, or a new repair plan for your existing K board. Good luck in any case.

I think I'm getting a PC4 - lighter weight and it will have a warranty. Kind of silly though that I have to get a do-it-all board to run the rack of modules that's supposed to work with a controller to equate to such a board. freak

Thanks.


Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Proteus/1/PROformance Plus/Mo'Phatt
JV-1000/JV-1010/Fantom XR
Krome 61/N1R/X5DR
PC3-76
Casio CT-370
Pacifica 112V/Line6 M13/Pod HD300/Joyo JF-14
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The second Hammer 88 Pro has been shipped off to Sweetwater Returns. What a shame - I quite liked it in many other ways. But talk about one issue negating everything else!

Sure is weird only having a 25-key controller for an unknown period of time now.

Last edited by Mighty Motif Max; 04/12/21 09:41 PM.

Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Proteus/1/PROformance Plus/Mo'Phatt
JV-1000/JV-1010/Fantom XR
Krome 61/N1R/X5DR
PC3-76
Casio CT-370
Pacifica 112V/Line6 M13/Pod HD300/Joyo JF-14
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I've ordered a Kurzweil PC4 to replace this. Should be a stronger controller anyways.


Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Proteus/1/PROformance Plus/Mo'Phatt
JV-1000/JV-1010/Fantom XR
Krome 61/N1R/X5DR
PC3-76
Casio CT-370
Pacifica 112V/Line6 M13/Pod HD300/Joyo JF-14
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,946
Likes: 97
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I'm going to pop this over from the regular Hammer 88 thread since there are slight action differences between the Hammer 88 and the Hammer 88 Pro (namely grading and aftertouch). I'm going to answer this myself now while it's still fresh.

Originally Posted by Mighty Motif Max
...

Can anyone who's played the Hammer 88 contrast the action with any of the following?

- Yamaha Balanced Hammer (BH) action (Motif XS/XF8, S70/90XS, Montage 8, CP73)
- Yamaha NWX (CP88, P515)
- Yamaha GHS (MOX8, MOXF8, MODX8, MX88, P115, P125, P121, P45)
- Yamaha GH3 (CVP-305/405, maybe other Clavinovas)
- Yamaha NW-GH3 (CP4)
- Yamaha GHE (CP40)
- Roland Ivory Feel G with escapement (FA-08, Juno DS88)
- Roland PHA-50 (RD-2000)
- Fatar TP-100 *as used in* the Nord Electro/Stage HP boards (because implementation varies and that's the only version I've played)
- Korg NH (Krome & Kross 88)
- Kawai RHIII (MP7SE, ES8)
- Casio Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II (PX5S)
- Casio "Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II w/Simulated ebony and ivory keys" (PX-560)
- Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action (PX-S1000/3000)

I need to have a reference point for its quickness and solidity (i.e. speed and feel). For reference I'm happy with the speed and response of the Yamaha BH and GHS, and the Kawai RHIII, while I find the Nord TP-100, Roland Ivory Feel G, and Korg NH to be slow and mushy, to the point where I would avoid them. IIRC the GHE is plasticky but not mushy, and the NW-GH3 (CP4) was not my favorite. Straight GH3 is heavy (I grew up with it). I find the NWX to be a stiff, heavy action, and the PHA-50 to be very unusual feeling - loose but slow. The Casio Tri-Sensor Hammer Action II variants I find kind of in the other extreme - fast, but plasticky and loose. And then the PX-S1000/3000 Smart Scaled Hammer Action is super unpleasant for me *personally* (as has been debated endlessly).

I played the Korg RH3 once on a Grandstage, but I don't remember enough about how it felt to include that.

Thanks to anyone who can compare the Hammer 88 to *any* of those. Much appreciated!

Okay, action comparison time for in the event M-Audio fixes things and people are interested in this model.

Quote
- Yamaha Balanced Hammer (BH) action (Motif XS/XF8, S70/90XS, Montage 8, CP73)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is both heavier and slower on the return than the BH action. It also is more plasticky, but not to the degree of, say, a Yamaha GHS action. It has a good weight to it and doesn't feel cheap. The BH action is just faster and quicker on the return, and a little lighter. BH is better overall for most things. Note that the Hammer 88 Pro action is graded while the BH is not, but the Hammer 88 Pro's grading is light, so it doesn't amount to much realistically.
Quote
- Yamaha NWX (CP88, P515)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is lighter than the NWX and not as stiff. I found the NWX to be heavy and stiff, and really didn't like it. IMO the Hammer 88 Pro's action is better overall than the Yamaha NWX.
Quote
- Yamaha GHS (MOX8, MOXF8, MODX8, MX88, P115, P125, P121, P45)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is slower and heavier than the GHS, but not as plasticky feeling. I'd say the GHS is a better overall compromise action, and if a person is playing a lot of high-tempo music like ragtime or fast classical the GHS is a little better because the return of the keys is faster. But the Hammer 88 Pro action feels more like a grand piano and it feels more substantial.
Quote
- Yamaha GH3 (CVP-305/405, maybe other Clavinovas)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is lighter than the GH3 with a faster return, and better in almost every way except feeling substantial. The GH3 has always been a little heavier than I like.
Quote
- Yamaha NW-GH3 (CP4)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is similar in weight to the NW-GH3, but a little slower on the return. The NW-GH3 is a little faster action overall, as well as being textured a little more like a piano.
Quote
- Yamaha GHE (CP40)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is actually similar to the GHE as seen in the CP40 (which felt different than the GHE in the CLP-130 which is a decade older). I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action bottoms out softer than the GHE, but is slightly slower. The key gloss/texture is almost identical between the two. The Hammer 88 Pro action has less noticeable grading.
Quote
- Roland Ivory Feel G with escapement (FA-08, Juno DS88)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is about equal in weight but has a *faster* return than the Ivory Feel G with escapement. It feels similar in terms of bottoming out. I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action is better overall because I've always found the Ivory Feel G to be a little sluggish.
Quote
- Roland PHA-50 (RD-2000)
The Hammer 88 Pro action requires a little more initial pressure when playing, but it has a significantly faster return than the PHA-50 action does. The PHA-50 is just slow and sluggish on the return, so the Hammer 88 Pro action is much better in that regard.
Quote
- Fatar TP-100 *as used in* the Nord Electro/Stage HP boards and Acuna (because implementation varies and that's the only version I've played)
The Hammer 88 Pro action is both lighter and faster than the TP100LR as found in the Nord Electro/Stage HP and Acuna, and superior in every way in my opinion. It's not as mushy, not as slow, and not as plasticky.
Quote
- Korg NH (Krome & Kross 88)
The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't as plasticky as the NH action. It doesn't have that annoying plastic squeak to it either, and it isn't anywhere near as mushy. I think the two are similar in terms of key return time, but the Hammer 88 Pro is a better action overall in my opinion. The NH requires less initial pressure to depress a key downwards.
Quote
- Kawai RHIII (MP7SE, ES8)
The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't on the same level as this action, unsurprisingly. The Kawai RHIII is smoother, faster, lighter, less plasticky, has better repetition, and feels more like a piano than the Hammer 88 Pro ever will. However, I'd say the Hammer 88 Pro action is 77% of the way there. It's not bad in its own right, the Kawai RHIII is just another level of premium.
Quote
- Casio Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action II (PX5S)
The Hammer 88 Pro action feels less plasticky than the PX5S's action. It's a little slower, but feels more substantial and solid, closer to a piano. I think it's superior but I dislike the PX5S action a lot.
Quote
- Casio "Tri-sensor Scaled Hammer Action Keyboard II w/Simulated ebony and ivory keys" (PX-560)
The Hammer 88 Pro action isn't textured, it's just a gloss finish, so that's one primary difference. The PX-560 action is looser to play than the Hammer 88 Pro's, but not in a good way IMO. The Hammer 88 Pro action is a little heavier.
Quote
- Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action (PX-S1000/3000)
The Hammer 88 Pro action wins in every way against the Casio Smart Scaled Hammer Action. It has even playability front-to-back of all the keys, the white and black keys have similar weighting, it's smoother, bottoms out more nicely, and it doesn't strain the wrists when playing fast music the way the PX-S1000/3000 does. The Hammer 88 Pro action is slightly heavier and does require a little more strength initially, but it's more like a piano in that way and it doesn't have the bizarre wrist strain issue that I and some others find that Casio action to have. The Hammer 88 Pro action is better in every way.


That should about cover it.


Motif XF8/YS200/CVP-305/CLP-130/YPG-235/PSR-295/PSS-470
Proteus/1/PROformance Plus/Mo'Phatt
JV-1000/JV-1010/Fantom XR
Krome 61/N1R/X5DR
PC3-76
Casio CT-370
Pacifica 112V/Line6 M13/Pod HD300/Joyo JF-14
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