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Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028289 02/10/20 12:46 PM
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On the backup issue I totally agree that (1) the mainstage/mac combination is incredibly stable WITH good memory management and (2) it's best to keep things as simple as possible.

My backup solution worked for me because it literally involves adding one piece of equipment (the microplug, which is about half the size of a cigarette packet) to my rig...everything else I use would be there anyway.

I also agree that using the headphone output from the macbook is a great approach (though see Eric's caveats about the new models). During early rehearsals, before I started sending percussion loops to the drummer, I used the headphone output and it worked great.

For my rig, I need to use the headphone out to send loops to the drummer and also need a mixer for my in-ears, so it made sense to use the Soundcraft Notepad mixer which has a built-in audio interface. I created an 'aggregate' audio device that has my mixer/interface as output 1-2, and my headphone out as outputs 3-4. That way I could route signals independently to the drummer and to FOH.


Yamaha CP33/Roland XP-50/Studiologic SL73/Roland A-800/M-Audio Prokeys 88/Yamaha U1/ (retired: M1/W30/CZ1000/Juno 60/U20/DX7/RD1000) + Hohner Nova 96 CBA.
KC Island
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: erik_nie] #3028292 02/10/20 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by erik_nie
I have many backups, but had no failures the last years using a laptop only setup for live/rehearsals.


+1 In my experience with two macbook pros and one macbook air, no problems. Sometimes equipment redundancy cannot save us. It was a light jazz gig for an audience of about thirty people, or at least it was supposed to be... Jobim, Diana Krall, Sinatra. Mid-december. Small art museum. The lights went out near the end of the first set. Our lineup was a vocalist, a multi-wind player, a double bass, a drummer, and me on a slab piano. When the power went out, the museum manager found candles. I found a djembe. We started up again with little drummer boy. I didn't remember the tune, so I did this bolero type of thing, feeling awkward and looking sheepish. Ra pa pum pum indeed. It worked out though. Somebody would call out a christmas carol and we would give it a try. The audience sang along. They loved it. Good times.

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028318 02/10/20 04:41 PM
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There have been a few threads here discussing backup strategies for laptoppers, so I won't repeat mine again except to say that I'm prepared for any number of scenarios, including losing the computer or controller keyboard. Some of these would not help me in the middle of a set – not without a pause on my part, anyway. But like many here, I think I've seen the reliability factor of laptop rigs only increase as time goes on, and I'm very comfortable with what I bring to a gig. Of course I understand why a major tour or Broadway show would have redundant setups running; I'll let you know if my backup strategies change when I get the gig with Sting or Beyonce! smile

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028319 02/10/20 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by philtre71

….But as noted earlier, with good memory management in Mainstage (using Aliases was critical for me) the whole thing has been rock solid during numerous rehearsals, and now one gig! And that's on a 2013 Macbook pro with 8GB ram.


That's encouraging to read, since my MPB also is running 8GB ram. Having a backup to get through the gig is important. I could also do something similar with iPad apps, for redundancy. I'll stick with the Stage 3, 76 as an 'untethered' instrument for that now; though there are the surprisingly extensive MIDI controller features in that keyboard to consider. I wonder if anyone else here has integrated their Stage 3 with Mainstage.


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: allan_evett] #3028379 02/10/20 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by allan_evett

I'll stick with the Stage 3, 76 as an 'untethered' instrument for that now; though there are the surprisingly extensive MIDI controller features in that keyboard to consider. I wonder if anyone else here has integrated their Stage 3 with Mainstage.


thu

I hope someone responds to your question in the affirmative.

If you are a Facebook user, there perhaps a half dozen folks in the Mainstage Users Group who have built their Mainstage rigs around Stage 2s or Stage 3s. There is also a Mainstage Scripting group for the rocket-scientist MIDI questions. wink

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028406 02/10/20 11:38 PM
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ALIAS TIP:

I love aliases, I wouldn't dream of creating a Concert project without them. But I have one piece of advice, make a separate "RACK" song that contains most of your master patches to pull aliases from. The one downside to aliases is, down-the-road if you accidentally delete a song that had the MASTER alias, it disappears from all others. Newer versions of MainStage will alert you, and also help you seek out the target patches to some degree, but I don't like my original patches contained in random songs. I keep them safe in their own entries, and then it makes an easy place to locate them for the future instead of hunting through songs. I'm not religious about this, sometimes if I have connected songs or alternate versions, I let the aliases be select contained. TIP: you can copy a MainStage Patch and choose "Paste as Alias", which will make all the internal Channel Strips aliases of the original patch, helpful if you need to do multiple versions of a song (like for me, with or without keytar).

If you want to get fancy, you can create categories like "Rack - Pianos", "Rack - Synths", "Rack - Organs", etc. It's up to you. But I strongly recommend keeping alias masters in their own area.

Originally Posted by Tusker
If you are a Facebook user, there perhaps a half dozen folks in the Mainstage Users Group who have built their Mainstage rigs around Stage 2s or Stage 3s. There is also a Mainstage Scripting group for the rocket-scientist MIDI questions. wink

I didn't even think of checking for a MainStage Facebook Group... but OF COURSE THERE IS, just put in my request.


"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio."

MacBook Pro running MainStage and various plugins (NI and other)
Arturia Keylab88, Mojo61, Seaboard Rise49, Vortex Keytar (RIP), Trumpet
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Tusker] #3028412 02/11/20 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tusker
Originally Posted by allan_evett

I'll stick with the Stage 3, 76 as an 'untethered' instrument for that now; though there are the surprisingly extensive MIDI controller features in that keyboard to consider. I wonder if anyone else here has integrated their Stage 3 with Mainstage.


thu

I hope someone responds to your question in the affirmative.

If you are a Facebook user, there perhaps a half dozen folks in the Mainstage Users Group who have built their Mainstage rigs around Stage 2s or Stage 3s. There is also a Mainstage Scripting group for the rocket-scientist MIDI questions. wink



thu Thank you!


"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.







Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: EricBarker] #3028458 02/11/20 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by EricBarker
ALIAS TIP:

I love aliases, I wouldn't dream of creating a Concert project without them. But I have one piece of advice, make a separate "RACK" song that contains most of your master patches to pull aliases from. The one downside to aliases is, down-the-road if you accidentally delete a song that had the MASTER alias, it disappears from all others. Newer versions of MainStage will alert you, and also help you seek out the target patches to some degree, but I don't like my original patches contained in random songs. I keep them safe in their own entries, and then it makes an easy place to locate them for the future instead of hunting through songs. I'm not religious about this, sometimes if I have connected songs or alternate versions, I let the aliases be select contained. TIP: you can copy a MainStage Patch and choose "Paste as Alias", which will make all the internal Channel Strips aliases of the original patch, helpful if you need to do multiple versions of a song (like for me, with or without keytar).

If you want to get fancy, you can create categories like "Rack - Pianos", "Rack - Synths", "Rack - Organs", etc. It's up to you. But I strongly recommend keeping alias masters in their own area.

Originally Posted by Tusker
If you are a Facebook user, there perhaps a half dozen folks in the Mainstage Users Group who have built their Mainstage rigs around Stage 2s or Stage 3s. There is also a Mainstage Scripting group for the rocket-scientist MIDI questions. wink

I didn't even think of checking for a MainStage Facebook Group... but OF COURSE THERE IS, just put in my request.


+1 to this.


Yamaha CP33/Roland XP-50/Studiologic SL73/Roland A-800/M-Audio Prokeys 88/Yamaha U1/ (retired: M1/W30/CZ1000/Juno 60/U20/DX7/RD1000) + Hohner Nova 96 CBA.
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028469 02/11/20 10:53 AM
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Great to see the number of power users of MainStage now on KC. When I first joined here as an MS 2 user on Lion the overwhelming sentiment was that MS couldn't or wouldn't cut it onstage as a substitute for hardware.

As for backup I upgrade my gig machine every two or three years, and keep the old machine as backup. I am now now on my third machine, it takes about 90 seconds to copy my current MS concert onto my backup laptop. I take both machines to gigs but have have never needed the backup. But if it ever happens its a 60 second swap.

Regarding this Murphy character in my day day job we contract to provide 99.9% uptime. In 20 years we have managed to meet that target, so contrary to the work experience of the many IT experts here, IT can be incredibly reliable. As a thirty year Amex card holder they have achieved a 100% uptime in reminding me of how much I owe them and I don't see why I cannot get close that with a well managed laptop.

Plus I will not use third party AU's live that don't play well well together or are resource hogs. The extensive range of AU's that come free with MainStage means that with a few exceptions all my synth needs can be met with these including Alchemy, a leading synth that has dropped from view since Apple bought it. Still like Diva and Repro but for pop synth sounds there is a lot you can get from the included AU's.


MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Markay] #3028476 02/11/20 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Markay
Plus I will not use third party AU's live that don't play well well together or are resource hogs. The extensive range of AU's that come free with MainStage means that with a few exceptions all my synth needs can be met with these including Alchemy, a leading synth that has dropped from view since Apple bought it. Still like Diva and Repro but for pop synth sounds there is a lot you can get from the included AU's.


+1000

Good to see you in this thread brother Mark. Grateful for your hospitality in Sydney and your guidance over the years as I came online with Mainstage.

Somebody was mentioning Komplete and Keyscape in a previous post. These two products are working for some Mainstage users, but the smart play is to limit their usage to quickly bullet-proof your rig. Add them as icing later. The Apple synth suite is fine as Mark mentions and Alchemy can do most of the synthesis anyone could want, including Subtractive, Additive, Formant, Granular, and Resynthesis. Although less advertised, Linear FM and Physical Modeling are also possible for the synthesis scientists among us. (more on this if anyone needs it).

Acoustic instruments are a different matter, and there are fabulous libraries today which can be taxing to any system in real time. I have used Kontakt libraries in concerts with no problems, but I see if I can use an Apple product first, if a sound doesn't need to be front and center. One technique you can use is to import EXS24 patches into Alchemy, and add the vividness there, using Alchemy's toolbox of tricks. This approach will sound familiar to the Kurzweil users who have been sprucing up smaller samples with VAST fairy dust for decades. The Apple acoustic samples are better than any on a rom synth .. but will fall shy of a Spitfire or a VSL or a East-West library. If you absolutely need a Duduk for your production of Aladdin or an Erhu for Mulan ... you might understandably need to step out of the safe Apple garden a bit.

If a sound-designer or synthesist (modular, vast, etc.) is interested in the capabilities of the Alchemy toolbox, I point them to this video first. It just peels back the curtain on the sonic treasure house a bit. Hope this helps. 🙏


Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Tusker] #3028490 02/11/20 02:43 PM
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Hey Jerry,

Great to catch up in Sydney, I was going to PM you re the surf errosion at Collaroy beach, where we saw the cover band, and guess what it is all happening again this weekend. Hard to credit after a years worth of rain in 2 days and the smoke you had to put up with during your visit to Sydney. Remember I mentioned the "lucky country", some how nature takes care of us and finally puts the bush fires out.

For the benefit of other MS users Tusker is a great guy who really knows his MS stuff. Pay attention.

And Jerry, a coastal holiday home here in Aus is the best choice, hope the pics convinced your better half.

BTW Jerry is real responsible drinker, doesn't have the same appetite to be led astray as I and CowboyNQ have when we are let loose without supervision.

Possibly explains why I definitively need the split points spelt out loud and large by the third set in MS in performance mode.


MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028516 02/11/20 06:31 PM
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Interesting discussion on the use of third-party AUs/VSTs. I admit that I started off using a number of third-party instruments but increasingly limited my palette (e.g. using the ‘Logic’ organ rather than Blue3, which I love).

I did use Kontakt for brass sounds, but in other cases made use of the auto sample function in EXS24 to avoid the need to load resource-hungry instruments.

From the audience perspective, I seriously doubt most people would notice the difference between a basic warm pad from retro synth and something more complicated from Diva, but that’s perhaps another topic...

Last edited by philtre71; 02/11/20 06:35 PM.

Yamaha CP33/Roland XP-50/Studiologic SL73/Roland A-800/M-Audio Prokeys 88/Yamaha U1/ (retired: M1/W30/CZ1000/Juno 60/U20/DX7/RD1000) + Hohner Nova 96 CBA.
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028543 02/11/20 09:10 PM
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I've been thinking of starting to use MainStage live (my Kronos 73 seems like it's been gaining weight everytime I have to move it).

Are there some 3rd party VSTs that aren't that resource hungry? I've heard Pianoteq is one. Is there a good organ, or sample players?


Korg Kronos 2-73, Roland RD-2000, Nord Stage 3 Compact, Yamaha U1 Upright
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Cabo] #3028548 02/11/20 09:33 PM
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I use a single instance of Pianoteq (with CP70 sound) as an alias on many songs...works perfectly. u-he stuff sounds great, but is a major resource hog, so I tend to go for the standard Apple stuff (retro synth, es2 etc) for bread and butter synth sounds, with judicious use of Kontakt for brass, bagpipes and the shakuhachi sample in Sledgehammer! I also use a little bit of Arturia (for DX7).

You can always use the built-in autosample utility to sample any plugin sound to EXS24 format, which can make a big difference. EXS24 is still, after all these years, an excellent plugin.

My experience is that pretty much everything works fine. It's only when you don't use aliases AND have multiple instances of things like Pianoteq running, that you might hit problems. When I started using aliases, my CPU and memory demands decreased significantly.


Yamaha CP33/Roland XP-50/Studiologic SL73/Roland A-800/M-Audio Prokeys 88/Yamaha U1/ (retired: M1/W30/CZ1000/Juno 60/U20/DX7/RD1000) + Hohner Nova 96 CBA.
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3028563 02/12/20 12:13 AM
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Curiously, I don't use a single Apple VI. I actually had a lot of problems with them in the beginning, and gave up. Lots of stuck notes. Even before I came to MainStage, I had NI Komplete, Korg KLC, and a number of other things. I was mostly duplicating my studio setup (which was not Apple VI based) live, so I continued to use a lot of the same VIs. I disagree that third-party AUs are inherently less safe. AUs are AUs, they're not proprietary to MainStage, and Apples weren't even specifically designed for MainStage (they were designed for Logic). I don't trust Apple any more than I trust Native Instruments or U-he. I don't come from Logic, so when I got MainStage, these Apple VIs were all new to me, and I was used to other things.

A lot of my setup is Kontakt and Massive, those are my go-tos. Lots of Korg KLC, Roli Equator, Arturia Prophet V, and Acoustic Samples B5 (though rarely now that I use my Mojo). People love the Apple synths, and I'm sure they're fantastic. But I just learned on other kit, and am happy with it. I'm digging into U-he Diva and Arturia Pigments right now, but I don't think I'll get any new VIs for a while.


"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio."

MacBook Pro running MainStage and various plugins (NI and other)
Arturia Keylab88, Mojo61, Seaboard Rise49, Vortex Keytar (RIP), Trumpet
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Markay] #3028613 02/12/20 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Markay
BTW Jerry is real responsible drinker, doesn't have the same appetite to be led astray as I and CowboyNQ have when we are let loose without supervision.


We should hope for more beautiful vacations in the lucky country before deciding. Next time let's have someone else drive so you can be your unsupervised self. Really enjoyed connecting brother. cheers

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Cabo] #3028618 02/12/20 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Cabo
IAre there some 3rd party VSTs that aren't that resource hungry? I've heard Pianoteq is one. Is there a good organ, or sample players?


Your question appears to hinge on a) whether the instrument is resource hungry b) whether is it known to conflict with the host and c) how intensively the player is using the instruments. smile

If you are careful not to go hog-wild you should be just fine.

In general the VA's and modeled instruments are light and the symphonic libraries (VSL, Spitfire) are heavy. There is a continuum. (Diva is heavy for a VA, but it's heavy on the CPU, not the SSD.) Also some of the heaviest orchestral instruments can allow you to use sample thinning and unloading techniques, which allows you use some of the best libraries, with care. I've used PianoTeq for several years with no problems. It was a way for me to use more CPU and less SSD in a concert, since I was going to be streaming large samples for some of the orchestral instruments. Kontakt has been good as well. In a complex patch, I run each instance of Kontakt in single-core mode. Admittedly, the libraries I have used in Kontakt are not the heaviest symphonic ones. I use the onboard Mainstage B3 with some 3rd party custom patches, but there are lots of good 3rd party VST's as well. You shouldn't have a problem, based on your questions. Pianos, B3s and Synths are generally going to be lighter than the orchestral sample libraries which have dozens of articulations, legato samples, release samples etc, for every note. I should expect a lot fewer issues for rock, pop, jazz keyboardists using a few sounds, than for someone who has to cover (using large libraries) all the esoteric instruments in a theater production book. This variation in use-case is one reason you should expect a diversity of opinions in this community.

Come on in. The water's fine. cool

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3029086 02/14/20 10:11 PM
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Kontakt is EXTREMELY sophisticated. It runs a whole thread behind the OS that ties in all active instances, even across different programs (you could use one in MainStage and Ableton and they would know they're both open). For one thing, when they load samples into memory, they NEVER make duplicates. So open 10 instances of "Alicia's Keys", and it won't hit the RAM any harder than ONE. Secondly, it tests the hard drive read/write speed to figure out how large to make the sample header. If it takes 50ms to begin streaming a sample from the HD, it only loads 50ms (or maybe a little more) into RAM. So the faster your drive, the less RAM it will use. It's one of the most resource-lite sample plugs out there, particularly considering it's complexity. Compared to UVI or Omnisphere, it's a speed demon. It's also pretty low CPU being completely sample based. NI are treated like the big bad mega-corp of the VI world, but it's undeniable that they work their butts off to make some damned good plugs.

I don't think I could do this job without Kontakt, TBH. And their interface design is usually fantastic (Reaktor excluded). Reaktor is a different case, I don't trust it live. There are many high profile electronic musicians like SquarePusher and Tim Exile who've built their career and live show around Reaktor, and that's amazing. If I put all my time into it, I probably would too. But as a keyboard player, Reaktor makes my blood pressure rise, too many resources, and too many things that can go wrong. I even avoid Monark, which is probably the greatest MiniMoog VI ever made.


"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio."

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Arturia Keylab88, Mojo61, Seaboard Rise49, Vortex Keytar (RIP), Trumpet
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: EricBarker] #3029127 02/15/20 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by EricBarker
Curiously, I don't use a single Apple VI. I actually had a lot of problems with them in the beginning, and gave up. Lots of stuck notes. Even before I came to MainStage, I had NI Komplete, Korg KLC, and a number of other things. I was mostly duplicating my studio setup (which was not Apple VI based) live, so I continued to use a lot of the same VIs. I disagree that third-party AUs are inherently less safe. AUs are AUs, they're not proprietary to MainStage, and Apples weren't even specifically designed for MainStage (they were designed for Logic). I don't trust Apple any more than I trust Native Instruments or U-he. I don't come from Logic, so when I got MainStage, these Apple VIs were all new to me, and I was used to other things.

A lot of my setup is Kontakt and Massive, those are my go-tos. Lots of Korg KLC, Roli Equator, Arturia Prophet V, and Acoustic Samples B5 (though rarely now that I use my Mojo). People love the Apple synths, and I'm sure they're fantastic. But I just learned on other kit, and am happy with it. I'm digging into U-he Diva and Arturia Pigments right now, but I don't think I'll get any new VIs for a while.

I migrated from Windows + Cantabile + 3rd party VI's to MainStage and use, and have used, the AU version's of many mainstream VI's including those from NI. . The inescapable fact is that many 3rd party AU's need to run inside NI or UVI player which means added overhead because you are running a VI inside a host inside MainStage. How many instances you can run concurrently will be solely determined by available system resources. Typically modelled VI's like Pianoteq or VB3 are self contained and take up modest resources when run on current generation CPU's.

But setting up multiple channels strips in a patch with several instance of Keyscape and Diva would blow out my machine.

I have never had any instance where any Logic AU has had hung notes or other issues. Apple is the biggest AU supplier in the market and covers every base, they didn't get there making, or buying, flaky AU's that don't work together. The good thing about MainStage is you get all them plus GarageBand for $30, something no other live host can come remotely close to matching. But on the other hand you haven't wasted a cent if you choose not use them.



MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Markay] #3029156 02/15/20 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Markay
The inescapable fact is that many 3rd party AU's need to run inside NI or UVI player which means added overhead because you are running a VI inside a host inside MainStage.

Which NI application is an AU host that runs inside Mainstage (or any other AU host)?

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Reezekeys] #3029251 02/16/20 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Reezekeys
Originally Posted by Markay
The inescapable fact is that many 3rd party AU's need to run inside NI or UVI player which means added overhead because you are running a VI inside a host inside MainStage.

Which NI application is an AU host that runs inside Mainstage (or any other AU host)?

Any NI VI that requires Konkakt. From the NI website, for example Kontakt Player 6 "FREE PLAYER FOR KONTAKT INSTRUMENTS, Hosts a huge selection of Native Instruments and third-party instruments". This and UVI are the major wrappers which third-party VI developers can use to short cut development time. For example Acoustic Samples B-5 requires the current version of UVI player be installed so you can use it. And there are all the IK VI's. Another major in the VI market. Same applies with any other host, for example Cantabile on Windows.

Last edited by Markay; 02/16/20 06:04 AM.

MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3029264 02/16/20 12:48 PM
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This may be a matter of semantics, but I always thought Kontakt was an AU/VST plugin that played & edited samples, not a host for other AUs. Of course third parties develop content for it, so in a manner of speaking Kontakt "hosts" them, but that's not what you seem to be implying when you call them "3rd party AU's [that] need to run inside NI" – that sounds like you're calling these 3rd party sample products AUs in their own right, which I'm very sure is not the case. I wouldn't get this nitpicky except you also implied that this somehow burdens Kontakt beyond other VIs due to the "added overhead" of a "VI host running inside another host."

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: Reezekeys] #3029400 02/17/20 08:00 AM
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Markay Offline
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Originally Posted by Reezekeys
This may be a matter of semantics, but I always thought Kontakt was an AU/VST plugin that played & edited samples, not a host for other AUs. Of course third parties develop content for it, so in a manner of speaking Kontakt "hosts" them, but that's not what you seem to be implying when you call them "3rd party AU's [that] need to run inside NI" – that sounds like you're calling these 3rd party sample products AUs in their own right, which I'm very sure is not the case. I wouldn't get this nitpicky except you also implied that this somehow burdens Kontakt beyond other VIs due to the "added overhead" of a "VI host running inside another host."

Rob, lets take one NI example, the recently released Noir by Galaxy Instruments, again from the NI website " System requirements: Free KONTAKT PLAYER or KONTAKT (Version 6.0.4 or higher)."

Here is the NI website LINK

Look under "At a glance".

MainStage has a CPU, Memory and disk usage live meters which tells you what resources are being used by each AU. When I load Kontakt ot UVI player without an instrument loaded inside them, I see them using resources. Load the desired VI inside them and resource usage goes up again.


MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3029406 02/17/20 12:09 PM
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EricBarker Offline
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Markay: The Kontakt "plugins" you speak of, aren't plugins, they're just complex patches. From a computer processing standpoint, they don't have their own threads. They may have to be more sophisticated than a Serum patch, and include scripting but you really can't do sampling and sample modeling without scripting. They allow developers to slap snazzy skins onto their products too, but the nuts and bolts, the code that makes a difference to CPU intensity is not really much different than any other VI. And ALL plugins use more or less resources depending upon their setups. Try switching on an effects block on a modeling plugin, or increase the polyphony on a wavetable synth, the CPU will shoot up. To you or I, we may think of loading a Kontakt patch as being a different world than switching on a reverb block, but it's really not internally.

Samplers like Kontakt are actually some of the lightest CPU users, but the largest RAM hogs. Modelers are the opposite: they eat CPU cycles for breakfast but consume almost no memory. But the efficiency of their effects blocks is usually the biggest deal breaker.

*****

Furthermore, on stage, I don't really have very many CPU problems. I'm used to being able to run huge orchestral sets in the studio, many more instruments than I could possibly play at once in a live performance. Even a full MainStage Patch with 6-10 channel strips is pretty light. Now if I switched over to many instances of Diva, we might have a problem, but that VI has some efficiency issues, as wonderful as it is.


"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio."

MacBook Pro running MainStage and various plugins (NI and other)
Arturia Keylab88, Mojo61, Seaboard Rise49, Vortex Keytar (RIP), Trumpet
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: EricBarker] #3029409 02/17/20 01:19 PM
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Markay Offline
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This part of the conversation is heading down an unintended rabbit hole.

The point was that there is additional overhead when using VI's inside a scripting wrapper like Kontakt or UVI player. With adequate machine resources no issues.

And yes load an effect like convolution reverb, including Logic's Space Designer and you can quickly eat up resources. One of the reasons I am switching to Logic's modelled Chromaverb.


MainStage 3 | Axiom 61 2nd Gen | Pianoteq | B5 | XK3c | EV ZLX 12P
"Music is a journey. We are all at a different stage in that journey." James Morrison, Australian trumpet legend
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: philtre71] #3029427 02/17/20 04:50 PM
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erik_nie Offline
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I tested multiple reverbs and I like included Matrix Reverb that is part of MacOs.
Sounds great, for live more than good enought and it very low on CPU usage.

And use it on an aux bus, not in every preset.
hope that helps


DMC-122, Macbook Pro 2012, Mainstage 3.3, RME Fireface 400 (Backup on stage: Gemini board | backup in car: Dr. Synth)
Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: EricBarker] #3029536 02/18/20 02:39 AM
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David Holloway Offline
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Originally Posted by EricBarker
Kontakt is EXTREMELY sophisticated. It runs a whole thread behind the OS that ties in all active instances, even across different programs (you could use one in MainStage and Ableton and they would know they're both open). For one thing, when they load samples into memory, they NEVER make duplicates. So open 10 instances of "Alicia's Keys", and it won't hit the RAM any harder than ONE.


Wow I did not realise this, was about to go explore aliases etc. 90% of my stuff is Kontakt-based so it's great to know its got the smarts to do this - thanks! thu

Re: First Mainstage gig [Re: erik_nie] #3029539 02/18/20 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by erik_nie
I tested multiple reverbs and I like included Matrix Reverb that is part of MacOs.
Sounds great, for live more than good enought and it very low on CPU usage.


I had not tried this. I will. Thank you for the tip. 🙏


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