#999601 - 08/15/01 02:13 PM
Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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Anthony Savona
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In the last issue of Surround Pro, Tomlinson Holman discussed where sounds should be placed: in the middle of the band or in the audience.
Where do you all stand on this topic? Which would you rather mix? What do you like to listen to?
Tony
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#999602 - 08/16/01 02:10 AM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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mudsmith@earthlink.net
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----I personally don't think the "either/or" is at all an accurate description of the dilemma/opportunity. There are many, many other variables available.
In order not to ruffle any client feathers, I have been using a formula which is definitely in between these two extremes: create a space with depth for the band (roughly analogous to their real physical spacing on stage, with front-to-back depth included), but don't use up excessive amounts of front to rear depth to accomplish this, then fill the rest of the hall with audience, reverbs and the occasional special event.
I don't think I will stick with this approach for every project, and I don't think I will be getting any big yelps from clients when I get more "experimental"...
The big theoretical impediment to using your full soundstage for 3-D placement is the supposed inability to get good front-to-back phantom imaging....There is undoubtedly some truth to this, but I feel that you can still do quite a bit with this if you keep the apron of your "virtual stage" well in front of the mid-point of your front-to-back soundfield.
The other issue then becomes the listening environment plus delivery formats: Theatrical versus living room, LCRS versus home or theatrical DTS, versus IMAX, etc., etc....You can certainly expect certain things to be true of each environment and not others and be creative accordingly.....Control and understanding of the delivery scheme is, I think, the big and somewhat unsuspected aspect of this that we will all be dealing with.
And, somewhat contrary to oft-heard concerns, I think the home listening environment may be the most conducive to experimentation with good results. The reason I think this is true is because of the small size and repeatable listening position and system setup. In a standard theater, the average listener will be all over the room and the operator may or may not keep things set up appropriately, despite standards, from movie to movie. In the home environment, the listener will tend to be in the same spot always, and will be used to how his system should sound and tend to tweak controls approriately or leave them set to his/her tastes always....Add to this that DVD playback is probably more reliable than optical multitrack and the scene is set.
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#999603 - 08/16/01 04:39 AM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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lrbreez
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I prefer the on stage perspective. 'The Allman Brothers at Fillmore East' has the on stage perspective. As a musician it is fantastic to have this perspective on a recording, very, very refreshing.
Buddy
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#999604 - 08/16/01 12:36 PM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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Anthony Savona
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Both techniques definitely can work -- for a good example check out the Talking Heads "Stop Making Sense" DVD. It features both a "with the band" mix and a "from the audience" mix, and both are good! (It's also got a stereo something or other mix on there, but who cares about that  )
Tony
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#999605 - 08/16/01 02:38 PM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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TinderArts
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The Talking Heads DVD was very good . The multiple mix scenario is one I'd like to see more of.
When the 5.1 mix is attached to live video, I would lean towards the audience perspective (with sensible instrument positioning ala Mudsmith). It's important for me to recreate the feel of the live experience. When the mix is a studio production, spread it out and experiment.
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#999606 - 08/23/01 08:43 AM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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Stephen Fortner
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The posts on this very thread have got me rethinking this, but when I first started checking out surround mixes, the "with the band" perspective struck me as unnatural. Backing vocals coming at me from the rear? I am a working live musician, but when I want to be a listener, I'm looking more for surround to recreate the aural depth-of-field I'd get at a well-engineered live show, as contrasted with making me feel like I'm onstage. (If it feels like I'm onstage, I'd better be getting paid!  ) I'm just stating personal taste, not opining about the "right way" to do it. Some people may really dig the onstage feeling, and for that reason, the dual-mix idea is great.
_________________________
"I'm just a confused musician who got sidetracked into this damned word business..." -Hunter S. Thompson
Stephen Fortner
Technical Editor, Keyboard Magazine
NewBay Media LLC
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#999607 - 08/27/01 02:12 AM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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bmoura
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Originally posted by lrbreez:
I prefer the on stage perspective. 'The Allman Brothers at Fillmore East' has the on stage perspective. As a musician it is fantastic to have this perspective on a recording, very, very refreshing.
Buddy
Herbie Hancock is a big fan of the on stage/middle of the band approach as well. At CES in January, he referred to it as the "immersive" approach.
In terms of specific material, I'd recommend the DTS DVD Mix of Roy Orbison's "Black & White Night" by Elliot Scheiner. Great fidelity and a very involving surround mix.
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#999608 - 08/27/01 04:00 AM
Re: Perspectives: On Stage or In the Audience
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lrbreez
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<< Herbie Hancock is a big fan of the on stage/middle of the band approach
as well. At CES in January, he referred to it as the "immersive"
approach. >>
"Immersive" is exactly how I feel.
Buddy
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