#989871 - 12/29/04 05:24 PM
Gear Vs Clients
|
Matt.Hepworth
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2972
Loc: Riverdale, UT
|
Offline
|
|
I just want to get a little better picture of how important gear branding is in the real world and would appreciate if, in addition to the poll, you'd share some examples of specific gear that seems to help pull in clients, or gear that clients are always asking for.
_________________________
No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#989872 - 12/29/04 07:44 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
GTRBass
Gold Member
Registered: 12/03/03
Posts: 598
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Offline
|
|
When I've dealt with prospective clients regarding a studio project, they always want to know "do you have Protools?" Most musicians are impressed with names over the actual function or appropriate use of a particular device.
Just tell 'em Neumann, Neve and Protools. They have no idea whether that means U47, 1073, and HD versus a TLM103, Vintech X73, and Protools LE, not that either chain would be a bad choice depending upon the budget or situation.
Everybody wants a bargain...
In L.A. some people act like they expect Ocean Way Hollywood for $35.00 hr, including engineer.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989873 - 12/29/04 09:16 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
bdbklyn
Platinum Member
Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 1035
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I thought the choices for the first question were a little mis worded at least from my viewpoint.
I think that clients are much more name brand oriented than we are as engineers. Especially when it comes to microphones and consoles. I had the single sounding best console in the world at the last studio I ran. It was not an SSL. Even when it was expanded to 80 full inputs and a 32 channel monitor system that folded into the mix buss it was still not an SSL. There was no one that ever heard it that didn't think it was the single best sounding console they ever heard. It still wasn't an SSL to some people and that made it a "B" room in their minds
_________________________
Studio Guru
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989874 - 12/29/04 09:26 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Lee Flier
10k Club
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah, that happened at a couple of studios here in Atlanta, one of which is now closed and the other of which had to replace a superior sounding console with an SSL in order to stay open. 
I find this REALLY unfortunate as there are several consoles I prefer to the SSL, and it's hard to find rooms with anything else anymore.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989875 - 01/01/05 12:22 AM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Matt.Hepworth
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2972
Loc: Riverdale, UT
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thank you, I appreciate the responses and you've definitely answered my questions.
_________________________
No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989876 - 01/02/05 04:43 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Bill@Welcome Home Studios
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 08/23/03
Posts: 7294
|
|
Offline
|
|
Originally posted by Matt.Hepworth:
Thank you, I appreciate the responses and you've definitely answered my questions.
The people who come to your studio because you have XYZ in your rack are not worth having as clients. You want the people who recognise what YOU are doing for their recordings, and who trust you to buy the gear that helps you to do what you do. These are the guys who will be with you for the long haul.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989877 - 01/07/05 05:14 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
teaboy
Senior Member
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 97
Loc: England Baby
|
|
Offline
|
|
hey bill, which console was that out of curiosity?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989878 - 01/07/05 05:16 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
teaboy
Senior Member
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 97
Loc: England Baby
|
|
Offline
|
|
at extasy? i've spelt that wrong i think
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989879 - 01/08/05 09:43 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
bdbklyn
Platinum Member
Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 1035
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hey Teaboy....long time no see.
Yeah...you spelled it wrong ...but so did they!
It was a Neve 8078 40 input 32 monitor section with GML automation that evolved into a full 80 input with the acquisition of another 8078. It had a nice center section that allowed the mixer to access all monitoring functions, all 80 channel inputs and the 32 channel automated monitor section that folded into the mix buss.
The original console came from Motown Hittsvile in Hollywood and the second one came from an EMI broadcast studio in Cologne. The amplifiers in the were all discrete Neve BA 440's the monitor section was all Neve BA 640 (5534).
While I wasnt a fulltime music mixer at the time I was there, when I did get an opportunity to mix it was a wonderful experience. There didn't seem to be one "suck" button on that whole console.
Bill
_________________________
Studio Guru
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989880 - 01/11/05 04:48 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
teaboy
Senior Member
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 97
Loc: England Baby
|
|
Offline
|
|
yes... been on an extended internet and mobile phone sabatical. very refreshing!!
i thought that it might be that desk you were talking about. don't see much of that kind of thing in london sadly.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989881 - 01/13/05 10:48 AM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Themuzic
Senior Member
Registered: 05/23/01
Posts: 30
Loc: wheeling,IL,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Well, if you look at what I use, you'd all probably laugh and think I'd have only a few clients here and there. The fact is, I'm booked pretty tight. Now I only run my studio at night, 4 hours a night (as I have a day job) but I have a very loyal and steady clientel. If I have a canclation, there usually someone to call and fill the opening.
My gear (especially my pres) are far below what I think most of you have but once they hear what I'm getting, there's usually no question. Now, I never set out to make this a business. It just kind of happened.
Here's a few pieces of hardware I use, if you're interested.
My pres (believe it or not) are 2 Behringer ADA8000 Ultragain Pro 8-Channel A/D D/A Converters That's it-nothing else.
Mackie HUI - DAW Controller
Edirol PC-30 Keyboard Controller
Fatar VSL-880 88 key Piano Controller
Akai MPD-16 Drum Pad Controller
Bulesky Prodesk Speaker system with sub
Pentium 4 3.2ghz 1gig Ram 40gig & 120gig HD w\Matrox Dual Video Card
2 NEC LCD Flat Screen Monitors
Steinberg VSL 2020 Sound Card
Steinberg Midex 8 MIDI Hub
2 Behringer HA4600 Headphone Distribution amp
3 Behringer ULTRAPATCH PRO PX2000 Patchbay
Roland V-Drums with the TD-20 Drum Module
Rhode NT-1a Condencer Mic
Marshall MXL 2001 Condencer Mic
3 Sure SM-57 Dynamic Mic
EV (Electrovoice) Dynamic mic 270
EV (Electrovoice) Dynamic mic 470
My main software is Cubase SX-3 and Nuendo 2 with a ton of VSTis and Effect plugins. Almost none of this is pro gear but I have over 100 happy clients so I hope my engineering skills are another reason they all keep coming back.
Maybe the engineer's skills should be added to the reason list.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989882 - 01/13/05 03:09 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Lee Flier
10k Club
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Well, at the project studio level certainly the engineer's skills are the biggest factor. But at a commercial facility that has to accommodate a lot of different engineers, it's a different story. These days everybody wants to be able to travel all over the world and see the same pieces of gear in whatever studio they go to. Result, we see a great deal less diversity in the high end studios and a corresponding lack of diversity in the sound.
Yeah, it's a very sad day when a room with a Neve is a B room. I already thought it was sad when it was only Neve and SSL left in the game and Amek, Trident, API, etc. were considered niche rooms.
When it comes to art, choices are good and reductionism is bad. Guess which direction we've been headed in for the past few years?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989883 - 02/11/05 04:20 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Funnelhead
Member
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Montreal
|
|
Offline
|
|
I am working on getting a studio together that can handle commercial work. It will be somewhere between Bill's Neve 8078 & Johnny's project setup. I am concentrating on building up my experience and meeting new challenges as opposed to making $ every day.
IMO having some brand name equipment on hand is a good idea, but from a purely practical point-of-view, I cannot make a "Should I buy an SSL or older Neve console" choice right now. Experimenting & maximizing non-status equipment will be the order of the day. Building a mic preamp is something I am considering (JLM audio in Australia). Even choosing brand name "magnetism" is a risk as Bill points out.
I am wondering if making portfolio recordings available to clients can help to overcome some of these "knee-jerk" reactions or is that overly optimistic. What do you all think?
_________________________
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." - Ernest Hemingway
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989884 - 02/11/05 06:51 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Lee Flier
10k Club
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I think it depends on your overhead. If you can survive with minimal monthly expenses, you can afford to be a "boutique" studio and build up your clientele based on the actual quality of your work. I think this is the way to go these days.
If your business plan requires that you take out a sizable loan and/or have big lease payments, where you have to take on a lot of business in order to break even, then it will be tough going.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989885 - 02/11/05 08:29 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
bdbklyn
Platinum Member
Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 1035
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
There are two types of people in this world. Those who think there are only two types of people and..... Sorry, wrong thread...
Seriously though, I know quite a few "world class" engineers who cart around hunks of junk that have a prestige vintage name on them and totally swear by the sound of them in spite of the unit's unreliability and poor sound. There are others that get great results with whatever gear the studio has available.
You need to research what sells and what doesn't to your client base. You also have to be true to yourself. If brand X sounds remakably better than brand y and gives you better results but is more expensive, you have to evaluate the costs versus our old friend ROI (return on investment).
If...in anyway, shape or form, you can make the music better, you can, in turn, concievably sell that to a client.
What makes your place special? Why would someone use your facility of another? These are the decisions you have to make first when evaluating equipment purchases.
Bill Dooley
_________________________
Studio Guru
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989888 - 02/18/05 03:22 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Funnelhead
Member
Registered: 02/11/05
Posts: 13
Loc: Montreal
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for the look inside your "garage", Zele.
I think that what some might call the "hobby market" is where you're making things happen. That is a nice looking set up. You seem to have done some acoustic treatment on the ceiling but I can't really see much detail there.
I don't disagree that the rental option is sometimes the way to go. Trouble with is that if a client goes gear comparison shopping, you could not not even get a chance to sell them on your studio. I bet word-of-mouth is working for you, but I don't have a track record yet.
I will try to match gear to situations/clients and try to frame the rental option as a "getting deluxe equipment, means paying deluxe" option. That said, I will be spending upwards of $2K on microphones within the next year. I don't do this just for the client, but also because I want to take my work professionally and shoot for high standards and satisfaction. :p I am focusing on process right now - I figure doing is knowing - eventually.
All the best with your biz!
_________________________
"The world is a fine place and worth fighting for." - Ernest Hemingway
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989889 - 02/18/05 05:45 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
zele
Platinum Member
Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
With so many quality mics assembled in China ---it is amazing what the price of Ribbon or Tube mic can cost-these days. Just ordered a Multi pattern & a Ribbon from the T. Bone line 
I think this BLUE looking copy is $100  T BONE MICS
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989890 - 02/18/05 06:01 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
zele
Platinum Member
Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Not a C12 ..by any means ~~~ but at a few $$ hundred dollars?? Not one has ever asked for U 67 / Telefunken/Langevin or even Neve, etc. But then again we specialize in clients ==looking to just get their tunes down >>> for selling the idea. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989891 - 02/18/05 06:11 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
zele
Platinum Member
Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Funnelhead:
[QB] Thanks for the look inside your "garage", Zele.
I think that what some might call the "hobby market" is where you're making things happen. That is a nice looking set up. You seem to have done some acoustic treatment on the ceiling but I can't really see much detail there.
Room was tweaked by Mr Hodas...
BOB HODAS
direct site
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989892 - 02/19/05 12:36 AM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
zele
Platinum Member
Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zele:
[QB] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Funnelhead:
[QB] Thanks for the look inside your "garage", Zele.
I think that what some might call the "hobby market" is where you're making things happen. "
I only wish IRS would classify this as a "hobby"
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989893 - 02/21/05 03:29 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
dcwave
Senior Member
Registered: 02/19/01
Posts: 36
Loc: Spanish Fork, Utah, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Zele, did you buy those t.bone mics from a USA distributor or direct? If direct how much did you end up paying for shipping/customs etc..?
Thanks
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989894 - 02/21/05 03:34 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
zele
Platinum Member
Registered: 01/12/01
Posts: 1136
Loc: carmel,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
Working on that today...waiting for a quote! Will keep you informed.
cjogo 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989895 - 03/11/05 11:19 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
LavaMan
Senior Member
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 233
Loc: Fayetteville, NC
|
|
Offline
|
|
Matt,
Lava Cable seems to be a brand name now that is pulling in clients....I more have more 10 dealers in 7 different states...You may want to reconsider your relationship with Monster...ar, ar, http://www.lavacable.com
Your Groove buddy,
Mark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989896 - 03/14/05 06:34 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Matt.Hepworth
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2972
Loc: Riverdale, UT
|
|
Offline
|
|
Originally posted by LavaMan: Matt,
Lava Cable seems to be a brand name now that is pulling in clients....I more have more 10 dealers in 7 different states...You may want to reconsider your relationship with Monster...ar, ar, http://www.lavacable.com
Your Groove buddy,
Mark
_________________________
No matter how good something is, there will always be someone blasting away on a forum somewhere about how much they hate it.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989897 - 03/15/05 10:15 AM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
LavaMan
Senior Member
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 233
Loc: Fayetteville, NC
|
|
Offline
|
|
Matt,
I thought you said to me that you had some sort of sponsorship deal with them after I told you about my cables...conflict of interest or something...oh well sorry I misunderstod
Mark
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989898 - 03/18/05 12:10 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Philip O'Keefe
10k Club
Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I do occasionally get the client or prospective client who cares about the "names". In some cases, it's a simple matter of someone having heard the "name" someplace, and reciting it like a parrot. Occasionally I get a client who asks about something specific for a legitimate reason - a while back, when getting ready to do vocal sessions for Adrian Pressley's (formerly with the Harlem Spiritual Ensemble) latest album, I was asked if I had a U87... apparently Adrian had been using a 87 at Abbey Road and the NYC studios he had been working at... but after hearing his voice (an incredible bass), I suggested a 251... after a little trepidation on his part, he tried it and LOVED it... and now that's what he uses / prefers.
But at least he had a REASON to ask about the Neumann. Many / most of the people who want something specific have no clue as to what it is or why they might or might not want to use it.
Most of my clients don't really seem to care about the gear - they expect ME to care about the gear - that's MY job... they just want to know I have decent stuff, and know how to use it. 
The one exception to that seems to be.... Pro Tools. :rolleyes:  
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989899 - 03/18/05 12:36 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
robmix
Platinum Member
Registered: 05/22/01
Posts: 1187
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I get the console question quite a bit. So much so that we're thinking of buying one even though I have an insane rack of mic pre's. I've had to go to other studios with clients simply because they just don't get the outboard mic pre thing. As far as microphones, everyone thinks they have to sing into a Neumann even though they have no idea about any model number except the U87 (which I personally think is a fine doorstop). Quite often it's the A&R guy that thinks recodings have to be done a certain way - tracked on a Neve, must be Pro Tools, and mixed on an SSL.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#989900 - 03/18/05 04:29 PM
Re: Gear Vs Clients
|
Philip O'Keefe
10k Club
Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
|
|
Offline
|
|
I was going to make some A&R comments after reading your last post Rob, but I think I'll keep them to myself.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: bdbklyn
|
|
|
