#989655 - 07/07/04 12:22 AM
How to deal with difficult clients?
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AKA
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Registered: 06/17/04
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How do you deal with difficult clients that don’t know anything about music?
Music is subjective.
What sounds good to me may not sound good to you but ultimately the client has the final say to what sounds good right, or, until what point?
Say they want a different piano sound or a different drum sound, how many changes have
to happen until it become unreasonable?
This may be no sweat if your production style is Midi based but what if it is based on live recording?
What if they know nothing about music and ask for something "darker", "happier" or
like so and so does it?
How would you tactfully deal with these type of clients?
Would you charge for each re- arrangement? Or, a flat fee covering as many arrangement changes they want?
What are your experiences with these types of situations?
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#989656 - 07/08/04 02:23 PM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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bdbklyn
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Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 1035
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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AKA,
Welcome to the next level. Perhaps, if you are to become successful, you will discover that this is where the true talent lies.
Just so you know....this happens at every level of the biz, not just at the start up level.
Unless you are making music for yourself and self financing the project, you will have to answer to the people who are funding the project as well as the artist, musicians, managers, A&R people, girlfriends, mail room clerks, etc.
If you are working on a film, you have to always remember that everyone on a film has two jobs, their own job and supervisor of music.
If you are working on an agency ad, be prepared to have to deal with someone who was an intern a week ago (who looked so cute in cutoffs on casual Friday) as your direct supervisor.
In dealing with work for pay there will always be someone who "gets to pee on the rock last"! In order to get paid that person needs to be accomodated.
Also, my personal mantra is "nothing is so perfect, that somewhere, someone, won't hate it".
Repeat this often if the need arises.
Since you're now a pro and you know the dynamics of the biz, either build these anticipated fees into your flat fees or have a flat fee for a capped amount of time and per hour charges after that.
Their requests never become unreasonable. Even if the want something to sound "greener" or more blue.
You mention that music is subjective. While that could be debated, you have to consider that some of the best work comes from collaboration.
Hope this helps....
Bill
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#989657 - 07/08/04 04:57 PM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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AKA
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Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 478
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Thanks for sharing you insights and experience Bill, it was very helpful.
One other question for you and any one else who wants to share their experiences.
How do you handle someone important that is verbally abusive?
I don't care if Barbara Streisand is the boss. No one has the right to put you down or
humiliate you in front of other people.
Hey, I understand that you have to kiss ass and eat SOME shit in ANY job but I draw
the line to verbal abuse.
How would you handle that situation?
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#989658 - 07/09/04 02:40 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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bdbklyn
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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I've been verbally abused by a producer once in 30 years. I got dressed down in front of 30 string players and Natalie Cole by Michael Masser. I was humiliating and it was over absolutely nothing and I was no rookie at the time. A violinist's headphones got misplaced by the violinist. I was never so furious in my life, then I considered the source.
Bill
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#989659 - 07/09/04 04:55 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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Curve Dominant
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Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 4223
Loc: Philadelphia USA
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A healthy sense of humor will diffuse the most volatile situation.
Just make sure they're laughing WITH you, and not AT you.
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#989660 - 07/09/04 10:33 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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"How do you deal with difficult clients that don’t know anything about music? "
I don't. I deal with either musicians or producers.
I find that pre-production helps to get a lot of things out of the way, in either case.
I also establish up front that if the band/artist does not have a producer, they need to appoint ONE person from the band who has a vague notion of what the overall project should sound like. I'm not willing to waste my time guessing, and I'm not willing to sit around while the band members argue about it. My time is more valuable to me than that, and money is no compensation (to me) for wasting it. If they want to pay me to produce, we have longer pre-pro meetings and I send them home and do my thing with their tracks.
"What sounds good to me may not sound good to you... ... how many changes have
to happen until it become unreasonable?... ask for something "darker",
These people are your clients and you are providing a service. Nothing is gained by giving them a hard time, or trying to make them feel small, or allowing their inexperience to make you become frustrated. If this happens to you, you are in the wrong business. They have come to you because you are supposed to be the pro, not them. If they have not got a producer to translate 'fluffy' to English and you have agreed to wear both hats, you need to grin and bear it.
"Would you charge for each re- arrangement? "
Are you the arranger? That would be a seperate charge from recording, and from producing.
"Or, a flat fee covering as many arrangement changes they want?"
The clock has to tick. If it doesn't, clients will eat your life. You can break up the charges any way that you want, but make sure that there is a stopping point. Charge by the hour, day, week.... whatever works for you. But a flat rate is an invitation to a client to want to spend six months making a 2 day mix. You might find it morer reasonable to offer a flat fee for producing... I've seen this done either way. But engineering time would be charged hourly in my room. Arranging would be on a per-arrangement basis. Not per song, per arrangement. Writing parts is time-consuming.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#989661 - 07/10/04 09:34 PM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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KeyBored
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Registered: 01/02/04
Posts: 14
Loc: LA-LA Land... where else?
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AKA,
Diffucilt clients in this business are more common than you would think so a skill you should hone is getting along with EVERYONE.
After years in this business I can say with certianty that there is far more talent(musicians, engineers, producers, etc) available than will ever be needed. Here in LA I can almost dial a random phone number and odds are the person who answers will be a pretty good musician.
As someone who hires people all the time I have to be on my 25th sub for a player or engineer before I start to worry if they'll be able to cut it. What does this mean?
It means that FAR more important than your musical ability and talent level is your ability to get along with people and "get it done". I know COUNTLESS great producer/composers but only a few that can deliver under the stress of deadlines and label/studio execs that keep putting their hands in the batter and creating confusion.
As was said before, you must answer to those paying the money, there is no getting around that. Hopefully they have hired you to do your job and will let you do it but we know this is often not the case.
When starting a project I always find out who I am answering to. Is it the a&r rep or VP at the label? The Director or the Producer of the film? This helps because you can ask that the team of people at the label/studio come to an agreement before discussing changes with you. It also helps because you can focus on building ONE bond of trust and goodwill instead of many.
Set boundaries about who participates creatively. I worked with one artist where the manager was coming to all the sessions and had something to say about everything. It was a vibe wreck of the highest order. I learned big time from that one. Now I have a very brief conversation up front about how we will work and who will be around and when. It doesn't have to be a heavy handed threat, just a simple clarifying chat. I often say "How about we make Thursday late afternoon our show and tell day". That way any comments by execs can be addressed on Friday - before the weekend. And often time you all end up going to dinner and having fun anyway.
Set financial boundaries. Learn to make this a part of your life early on or you'll develop too many bad habits to the contrary that will cause much grief later on. Cut deals before the project, not after the project.
As I have done to many people before I will offer you this thought as a bit of advice:
Remember that it's called the music BUSINESS and the term "Starving Artist is a part of our vernacular for a reason".
Good Luck!!!
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#989662 - 07/13/04 03:31 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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AKA
Senior Member
Registered: 06/17/04
Posts: 478
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Thanks to everyone for the great advice.
All those tips will help me communicate with future clients better.
Thanks again to all for being generous enough to share their experience.
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#989663 - 07/13/04 03:56 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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bdbklyn
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Registered: 04/04/01
Posts: 1035
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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AKA,
I think the key point to remember is that the guys who have become successful and stayed at the top are the best salesmen. That doesn't mean you have to be a kiss ass or sleazy at all. What it means is that you have to be able to put into words what it is that you do. You won't always be dealing with musicians or other engineers. You will be dealing many times with people that control the money for the artist and if you want some of it, you need to learn how to deal with them in a language that they can understand.
The other thing to consider is that there are a lot of cats doing this. Think about how much time you are going to spend with a client and figure out a way to make it enjoyable for them.
Ask yourself, would you like to spend 14 hours a day, six days a week....with you!
good luck
Bill
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#989664 - 07/27/04 06:29 AM
Re: How to deal with difficult clients?
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teaboy
Senior Member
Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 97
Loc: England Baby
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there are some complete bastards out there who love to take it out on people
you just have to ride the insults.
hey! at least i'm not in iraq. that's my attitude
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