#989237 - 11/18/03 01:00 AM
How to sell 50,000 units?
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wally joe
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How much promotion, advertising, and exposure would it take to sell 50,000 units of an adult alternative rock act such as Matchbox 20 or Coldplay?
For example, how far would a promotion budget of 25k get you?
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#989238 - 11/18/03 02:21 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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Dave Martin
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Registered: 03/17/03
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Originally posted by wally joe:
How much promotion, advertising, and exposure would it take to sell 50,000 units of an adult alternative rock act such as Matchbox 20 or Coldplay?
For example, how far would a promotion budget of 25k get you?
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#989239 - 11/18/03 02:24 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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Ouizel
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Registered: 07/22/03
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Loc: Caro, MI, USA
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Originally posted by Dave Martin:
the state of the global economy, and for all I know, the relative humidity in Mynott North Dakota. 
_________________________
***Standard Disclaimer***
Ya gotta watch da Ouizel, as he often posts complete and utter BS. In this case however, He just might be right. -Clay (Chillybug)
Eagles may soar, but Ouizels don't get sucked into jet engines.
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#989240 - 11/18/03 03:51 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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wally joe
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Originally posted by Dave Martin:
Can this question be answered at all? I would think that it depends on the type of promotion and exposure, the quality of the record, whether or not it connects to a fan base, what else has been released recently, how much the band is working (and the markets that they're working in), the state of the global economy, and for all I know, the relative humidity in Mynott North Dakota.
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#989241 - 11/18/03 06:13 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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mstreck
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Registered: 12/27/02
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I guess you could get 5000 fans to buy 10 each, but that probably wouldn't work out.Do you already have 50,000 already stamped out before knowing the demands of the market? That could be risky. You will need well over 50,000 fans that want the product... remember, not every fan will actually make a purchase.
I guess another question is: where do you want to concentrate your promo money? You could spend $25,000 touring the country and try to expand the fan base (geographically) or you could concentrate on one particular region and hammer it to death and (again) hope things catch on. I think it's a gamble either way... no guarantees.
What does the promotion company suggest (if there is one)?
Mike
_________________________
Petting Hendrix Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked in the head by an iron boot? Of course you don't--no one does--that never happens.
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#989242 - 11/18/03 07:15 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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wally joe
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Originally posted by mstreck:
What does the promotion company suggest (if there is one)?
Is a promotion co. a good thing to invest in?
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#989243 - 11/18/03 07:20 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
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Loc: Riverside,CA,UNITED STATES
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It takes a few million... minimum - to break a band nationally these days.
I can tell you what I wouldn't do - I wouldn't bother with wasting much of that $25 K promo budget on radio these days. Maybe a few targeted markets if you've got some major gigs in the area opening for national acts or whatever... I'd say you should spend whatever you've got on a good attorney, some marketing assistance and also concentrate on getting out there and just playing / touring.
If you want to move 50 K units in a year, you need to sell over 960 a week... it's "doable", but IMO, a lofty goal without the right budget and assistance.
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#989244 - 11/19/03 05:53 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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DallasPA
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
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Wally,
I respectfully disagree with some of what has been stated earlier, but phil is on the right track. I do believe you can pull this off privately. But its gonna cost a little dough. From my experience about $35K to 40K after manufacturing.
A) First of all you need to put a music attorney on retainer, this attorney:
1)should have a track record of landing at least small distribution deals and these deals should be with retail centers not record labels.
2)should sincerly believe in the viabilty of your project.
3)should be willing to cut a deal for 5K upfront with something on the back end. And give out the 5K one or two grand at a time as certain things get accomplishe.
The attorney shoud have connections like Bayside Entertainment (the distribution wing for tower records). Generally with the right attorney/publist/promoter combo, companies of this type will carry your product as long as you can prove that you will promote the product.
B. Good Publicist- another 5K
C. 2 Record Promoters (10K to 20K) for 12 weeks with experience in the two regions you will break your record. Make sure each region has a major city with plenty of places to gig.
D. One retail promoter (5K) to Handle your displays and in-store promo/posters/3X5's/and giveaways. And to track your sales and orders.
E. Plenty of 3x5 cards and other promotional gear.
Your music attorney is the key here, if he has experince making these types of deals, he will be able to point you to reputable promotors and publicists. I hope this helps!!!!
P.S. The key is to get a distributer like Bayside or Navarra on board
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#989245 - 11/20/03 05:44 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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wally joe
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Dallas, great post. Thank you!
I checked into Bayside and found lots of cool info. I wasn't able to find anything on Navarra, though. Are you sure of the spelling?
It seemed to me that there had to be a minimum (magic) number of guaranteeable sales given the right investments in promotion, publicity, and distribution. I'm sure an experienced attorney will know what that number is; 50k sounds about right to me.
To take it further--obviously just theorizing here--if the band is really as good as their numbers suggest, then they'll have 50k fans before long and will be a good candidate for a bigger label deal. They beef up the promotion effort, record another album, sell 250k, then tour like hell. Before long, they half a million fans, yet they never broke the bank. In other words, they're a fricking ANOMALY.
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#989246 - 11/20/03 09:11 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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DallasPA
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
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Wally,
I think the spelling is correct, there just probably isn't a lot of info out on Navarra, they are very discrete and it takes a little work to get them to bite. but believe me for small independents like your self getting in with them or Bayside would be a major coup.
I would have your attorney approach bayside first, they have in-house AR guys that do nothing but look for good independent CD's to distribute.
LOL maybe I should not be giving out so much info online and for free!!! ROFL
While Navarra generally wants you to put up some dough are a sizeble bond in escrow to ensure they're investment. But sometimes they will proceed without one.
As for the group if their sells top 20K start approaching major labels while you keep your own program rolling. Many times a major will just take the same album do some new art work and a few overdubbs and just start pushing it nationally.
For me this is the only way to go, waiting on a major label without doing your own targeted promotion is like waiting for Christmas in July.
If you have anymore question feel free to contact me here on the board.
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#989247 - 11/20/03 10:47 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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wally joe
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Originally posted by DallasPA:
For me this is the only way to go, waiting on a major label without doing your own targeted promotion is like waiting for Christmas in July.
thanks again, there are surely some nuggets in there!
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#989248 - 11/21/03 07:14 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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DallasPA
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Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 303
Loc: Reading, PA
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Wally,
I looked through some of my old contracts the correct spelling is Navarre you will be able to find some info using that spelling.
Take Care
Dallas
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#989249 - 11/26/03 12:15 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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wildplum
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Registered: 03/29/00
Posts: 146
Loc: oakland, ca usa
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a real life example:
a band i used to work for sold 30,000 units of their first two self produeced CDs (combined total) within 3 years. They toured relentlessly up and down the coast, had a regional distribution deal, a promotion company, and a major booking ageny (montery artists), they were named one of the top 8 unsigned bands by Billboard and eventually got signed by Capricorn (probably on the basis of the 30,000 units sold). they headlined at venues of up to 1,000 (sold out the 1,000 seater).
all this with just about no budget to start with. however, ALL the income from concerts, merch and CD sales went back into the on going promo effort. you could count on them being in some publication somewhere on the coast each week. radio play- some college and one major market station.
these days, the key, i think, isn't money but touring.
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Wildplum Recordings a micro label, studio and remote recording service
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#989250 - 12/07/03 12:00 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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robdarling@mail.com
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Registered: 07/30/00
Posts: 477
Loc: New York,NY,UNITED STATES
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If they can tour, they MIGHT have a CHANCE. But they have to tour their asses off. That is the only way they will do it. Selling a thousand records a week is a pretty big deal for an indie artist.
Finding a management partner whose strength is in touring is probably the best bet you can make.
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#989251 - 12/23/03 12:26 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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strat0124
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Registered: 04/03/01
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uh...market it in the orient
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#989252 - 12/23/03 07:52 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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NYC Drew
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Originally posted by Geenard:
uh...market it in the orient
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#989253 - 12/24/03 12:17 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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Doc Taz
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/02/02
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Loc: NYC area (U.S.A.)
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All the suggestions stated above are quite good. Don't forget the Net. Include that with everything mentioned. Yeah, some folks don't have net access, but most libraries now have internet access, so there's no excuse not to set up a web site for promo purposes. 
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#989254 - 12/26/03 08:28 AM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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DRi
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Registered: 07/17/03
Posts: 374
Loc: Australia
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im always surprised when some acts have to be reminded that touring is the key. from my own experience ive felt like banging my head against a wall and screaming "didnt you get into music because you like playing it?"
a truly WIERD piece of advice i got at a gig in my own act many moons ago backstage from a certain very well known electronic artist (we were the support act) was this...
"dont hang out here and do the groupies... put down the coke and go meet the other acts, meet their management... go talk some sh*t with some geeky fans and youre already selling twice as many albums"
lets just say this uk artist knows the top of the charts and thats the most SILLY yet sane advice id ever been given.
drum it in to the bands head that they are ALWAYS the lead PR company, and that you are the ancillary artillary support :p
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#989255 - 04/02/04 02:42 AM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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koolkid
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Registered: 06/04/02
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HAVE THE LEAD SINGER MARRY A TOP MODEL,THAN EITHER KILL HIMSELF OR DIE OF A DRUG OVERDOSE THAN STOP PRINTING THE ALBUM ONLY AFTER RELEASING THE LAST 50,000 COPIES
GUARANTEED WINNER
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#989256 - 04/02/04 11:47 AM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
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Registered: 05/23/00
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Or...
...make a claim to the media that the drummer was sleeping with one of the Kennedys...
...then write a book...
...and then call your accountant and tell him to sharpen his pencils. 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#989257 - 04/20/04 07:04 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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Sean Eldon
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Registered: 04/19/04
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if you want to sell records the good ol' fashioned way...tour. best form of exposure there is so long as the band is actually good.
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#989258 - 05/16/04 01:00 PM
Re: How to sell 50,000 units?
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pony
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There is a major point that everyone is seeming to be missing. You need to have a fan base and or decent radio play to be booked at worth while clubs/venues. A band can very rarely obtain a worth while booking agent without a major record deal and even then it is almost impossible. It is harder to get signed to a booking agent then a record company, no joke. I remember in '97 when my band was signed we had a hell of a time getting an agent. We finally got an agent at William Morris but it meant nothing because the agent was over worked and we were not a priority. If your record does not gain steam within a 40-60 day period you are dead at the bigger agencies. It is extremely hard to book your band by yourself because dealing with buyers from venues is hell. If you don't have any following and or radio play in their area they simply don't give a damn and you won't get the show. The key is to concentrate on a small region that you can handle. You have to have all of your ducks in a row. A business/marketing plan is key before anything else. Have all your info ready to present to distributors, publicists and Indy radio promoters. I believe strongly in getting your music to the people but you have to take the right roads. You can waste serious time by just going out for 3 months and playing awful bars and clubs, if you can get the shows. You need to hire a Indy radio promoter to work the smaller radio stations in the region you select. Going for major radio adds with your budget is a joke. First of all you might be able to get 2 weeks promotion from your budget and you have about a 1 in a billion shot of being added to a major market. It is almost impossible for major label acts to be added to the major stations let alone an Indy DIY'n it. You need product in the stores in the regions you are going for. This can be obtained by getting a regional distribution deal or DIY'n it with consignment deals with the stores, a lot of work. I then suggest you hire a publicist and get as much press as possible in the area you are going for. Now lets hope you gain some baby step momentum and then do the booking yourself. If you are getting some spins in the region it is much easier for you to obtain some decent shows. I believe you can have success by doing this only if your music connects with the people, that is the biggest key to all of this. At the end of the day it always comes back to the people. Calls in for request bodies attending the shows girls wearing the t-shirts and guys banging their heads. I totally believe in this approach and I believe that you can have successs with it. This is how the majors used to do it in the 60's and they had success. So go get em kid GODSPEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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