#985860 - 02/27/02 04:38 PM
Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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I believe this topic was somewhat discussed about a year ago on another forum here. Since this is now The Studio Business Forum, I thought it would good to bring this up again.
I'm sure that those who own/operate a full-blown commercial facility have already addressed this and are carrying a business policy to cover everything.
However, for people like myself, who are based out of their home/house/personal property location, things may not be as simple/clear.
Those of you that do operate a studio/music production facility as a "home" business…how are you covering your equipment/liability…and your asses?
Basic homeowner's policies will only cover audio/music gear if it is SOLELY used as a hobby…and even then a rider/amendment might be needed…depending on your insurance company.
BUT…if you use ANY of that equipment for even as little as 1% of the time for ANY business related work, (and you don't even have to actually earn money, just pursuing it is enough)…you are probably NOT covered under you homeowners policy, and you would need an actual business policy…even if the studio occupied a room(s) IN YOUR HOUSE.
I'm sure for those who are working "small", with a "porta-studio" box and have maybe just a couple of other pieces of gear…this may not be a real issue…you can take your chances without insurance, since a total loss would not be too devastating.
But for the folks that have a $sizable$ (20K-30K-50K…+) investment in their "home-based" studio…it would seem a very BIG risk to operate without insurance or to think that your homeowners covers it…only to find out after a loss, that because you WERE using for business purposes…you are shit-out-of-luck.
It appears that most homeowner insurance companies (and some specialty ones too) are "sticking-it" to musicians/studio owners by offering coverage ONLY at very high rates…
Any suggestions, recommendations, issues, and….names?
If you found a good/reasonable insurance company solution…where and who?
Please share, who knows, if they get more customers…it might even help bring rates down further! 
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985861 - 02/27/02 05:14 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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robmix
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We got our policy through ASCAP and I'm pretty sure the AFM also offers one. Prior to our ASCAP policy we had a rider from our regular insurance agent, it was actually some kind of Marine policy that covered all kinds of equipment on land. Very strange but it worked.
Rob
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#985862 - 02/27/02 06:01 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by robmix:
We got our policy through ASCAP...
I'm trying to contact them (MusicPro), but no one ever answers the phone...you are just asked to leave a message...I hate that...makes me feel like there really isn't anyone there...?
Anyway...what kind of "dollar-per-$1000-of-equipment" rate are any of you paying?
Some quote as little as $6/$1000 others $11/$1000 and some even MUCH more than that...very radical differences in rates.
Also...do you get 100% of "original cost" or is it based on "current value"...in the event of a loss?
Sometimes "current value" becomes such a debatable issue...the insurance company ALWAYS thinks the current value is MUCH less than what you think.
I would like to be able to declare a speciific set amount (like you do with personal property) and pay to insure it...then if there is complete loss...you get that amount, and not some "depreciated" value.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985863 - 02/28/02 04:55 AM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Chip McDonald
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I'd be interested in hearing elaboration in this subject as well... Particularly in the lower range, (looking around bedroom) say around $15,000 coverage. Is the marine-coverage thing a gimmick you have to talk an agent into? Will that *really* work?
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#985864 - 02/28/02 11:57 AM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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You can go online and get a quote from MusicPro Insurance,
http://www.musicproinsurance.com/
...but you have to fill out a loooooooong form...screw that.
I finally got them on the phone, and they were actually very friendly and informative.
I was told that "basically"...they get $0.75/$100 ($7.50/$1000) for equipment insurance. That is not a bad rate from what I've found out so far.
If you want studio liability, that is an additional flat $350/year...kinda' steep for liability only, but they suggested I first check with my homeowners policy if I could get only liability on the "home business" portion of the house...some do, some don't.
I'm surprised that not too many "home studio business" folks are responding to this thread...makes me wonder how many people are just "sticking their head in the sand"...
...well, it's your equipment...your call... 
What I'm finding with your "average" homeowners insurance is that most companies have NO CLUE of how to treat an audio business and equipment.
So, you really have to go into great detail explaining to them that it is a business JUST like any other...home or otherwise.
Most common businesses can get insurance on all their equipment/liability for about $5-$6/$1000. But I guess average insurance companies just want to basic homeowners policies...so they get a little confused/concerned about unusual requests, and when you say you have 20-30...50 thousand dollars of audio gear you want to insure...they either refuse to insure it or come back with an absurdly high rate.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985865 - 02/28/02 02:29 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Gregg Seibert
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Registered: 09/15/00
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Loc: Louisville,KY,UNITED STATES
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Thanks for starting the thread. I will be contacting Music Pro. How does insurance treat software? Some software companies will send you a new authorization and CD if yours gets destroyed, and some won't. I think Roger Nichols got burned on that on an earlier thread on his forum.
Gregg
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Gregg
Without music, life would be a mistake - Nietzche
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#985867 - 02/28/02 03:54 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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AudioMaverick
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miroslav... it was like you were reading my mind!
It has only been just under 2 years since I started my trek into hobbyist recording. The gear keeps adding up (and, I thought computer gear was adding up).
So, earlier this week, I'm running the brain calculator and thinking, "I've got a boat load of dollars invested in this 'hobby'! What's going to Home Owner's Insurance going to do if some of this gets stolen?" I am a portable rig. So, my gear is not at home all the time I'm using it!
I'll be checking "MusicPro Insurance" real soon!
Thanks, again...
_________________________
"It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..."
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#985868 - 02/28/02 05:47 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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robmix
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Originally posted by miroslav: You can go online and get a quote from MusicPro Insurance,
http://www.musicproinsurance.com/
...but you have to fill out a loooooooong form...screw that.
I finally got them on the phone, and they were actually very friendly and informative.
I was told that "basically"...they get $0.75/$100 ($7.50/$1000) for equipment insurance. That is not a bad rate from what I've found out so far.
If you want studio liability, that is an additional flat $350/year...kinda' steep for liability only, but they suggested I first check with my homeowners policy if I could get only liability on the "home business" portion of the house...some do, some don't.
I'm surprised that not too many "home studio business" folks are responding to this thread...makes me wonder how many people are just "sticking their head in the sand"...
...well, it's your equipment...your call...
What I'm finding with your "average" homeowners insurance is that most companies have NO CLUE of how to treat an audio business and equipment.
So, you really have to go into great detail explaining to them that it is a business JUST like any other...home or otherwise.
Most common businesses can get insurance on all their equipment/liability for about $5-$6/$1000. But I guess average insurance companies just want to basic homeowners policies...so they get a little confused/concerned about unusual requests, and when you say you have 20-30...50 thousand dollars of audio gear you want to insure...they either refuse to insure it or come back with an absurdly high rate.
Rob
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#985869 - 02/28/02 05:51 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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robmix
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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:
I'd be interested in hearing elaboration in this subject as well... Particularly in the lower range, (looking around bedroom) say around $15,000 coverage. Is the marine-coverage thing a gimmick you have to talk an agent into? Will that *really* work?
Rob
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#985870 - 02/28/02 05:56 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by robmix:
...And replacement value is the actual value as declared by you in the contract.
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miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985873 - 03/01/02 05:27 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by duskb:
... I did do the research before I bought through them and found out they are legit and certified to do business in New York State...
So maybe to help me (and others) from covering the same turf...
...how many other companies did you check out and/or what kind of information did you find that ultimately made you decide MusicPRo was the best choice?
I have a couple of other potential alternatives to check...and I'm still waiting on my homeowner's (State Farm) agent to call me back with my options and rates.
I don't want to spend too much more time...I would sleep easier if I knew this was taken care of properly...so, any informational short-cuts would help.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985874 - 03/01/02 05:32 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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AudioMaverick
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OK, Dusk...
I'm in California, too. Are you saying it would be better to find a California equivelant of "Music Pro"? I'm sending that email to them, right now!
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#985875 - 03/01/02 06:32 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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seclusion
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Registered: 04/11/01
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Loc: Orillia, CANADA
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Ya I had the run around too, from many of the big insurers up here in Canada. As soon as I mentioned $60K they ran and hid! So my dear wife pursued this to deaths end until we finally came across a company to do this! The studio's on my 3rd floor.
Both the house and the studio are under the same company, and I get separate bills for them, Kind of seems silly the price difference but, I'd rather have it, especially when it's tax deductable.
My house is in the neighbourhood of 350K, + contents and it costs me $650 a year. The studio is floating around the $60k replacement value mark. and costs me $1300 a year in Canada. Seems kinda weird how they figure that out but I set it up as a commercial buisness so I don't accidentally fit into one of their "Fuck you" catagories if the shit ever hit the fan.
The policy covers me also if I ever tour, something gets dropped, cat piss etc. Plus if I ever get into copywrite stuff. I feel more confident that I'm set up legit and that my investments won't be lost. Don't forget about someone slipping going up the stairs..
A buddy of mine was setup similar to mine in his house. A client did a couple of 360's down the stairs and got messed up a bit. Buddy was cool enough to say, hey I have insurance just keep me posted... Well after about 6 months of BS the person metioned why they were at his house to the insurance co.. "I went over to record a bunch of tunes". "I hired him to do it".
Now buddy is sitting with a $25K bill in his hand. The insurance co. said it was a commercial business which he wasn't covered for.
Kinda hard to write off a broken colar bone, and leg.
Depends how deep ya wanna go.
Brian 
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#985876 - 03/04/02 07:55 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Chip McDonald
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So, has anyone filed a claim with musicpro before? Any first hand accounts?
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www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#985877 - 03/04/02 08:57 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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NYC Drew
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My commercial insurance is up for renewal this month...We're getting (indirectly) copulated by the events of 9/11 all over again.
$2,000,000 liability, $1Mil liability per occurence, $200K fire coverage etc, $5000 "offsite" coverage... went from the low $2000's up to $4000.00
I'm gonna bump down to $2Mil/$1Mil/$50,000 fire [for the computer/office stuff...) - this should cost $800-$1000 I'm told...
... and see if I can get MusicPro or equivalent  on the audio gear ....I'll lose the coverage on my laptop & rack when I travel, but that alone is quoted @ $620/yr for $5000 worth gear..
NYC Drew
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#985878 - 03/04/02 09:36 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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AudioMaverick
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miroslav (and other home stuios & hobyists)
MusicPro Insurance . It all seems fantastic. I jsut have to get paid for my services, and my equipment is covered!
Like Chip, I am now wondering who has filed a claime with them, and what the outcome was. The things of interest for coverage include:
- Audio Gear (pretty much anything that requires electricity to function)
- Audio Accessories (cables, stands, adapters, screens...)
- Computer Hardware (monitors, CPUs, A/D-D/A converters and sound cards)
- Computer Software (OS, Applications) - I'm usually covered inthis arena, but...
- Misc. Electronics (Line conditioners, Voltage Regulators...)
Thanks, in advance, to anyone who knows how these all work.
_________________________
"It's all about the... um-m-m, uh-h-h..."
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#985879 - 03/05/02 12:15 AM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Valkyrie Sound
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Loc: LA, CA, UNITED STATES
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Bill:
Who are you using to insure gear?
Valky
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#985880 - 03/05/02 12:01 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by AudioMaverick:
...I am now wondering who has filed a claim with them (MusicPro), and what the outcome was...
Has anyone here filed a claim for audio gear/liability loss recently...and...what was the outcome and with which insurance co?
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985881 - 03/24/02 08:34 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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kid-surf_dup1
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I just posted a similar topic on some of the other forums.... Miroslav, (or anyone else) you got any updates for us???
My quote from one of the other forums:
-------------------------------
I don't trust "Music Pro" because: The way they do business is very unprofessional. When you get the paper work it almost feels as if it's being run by some high school kid using his home computer [It doesn't even list exactly what you are covered against???]? Also, I've tried to contact them 3 times trying to get more coverage with no response? Go with someone else, I say!!!
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I just wanna know I'm really insured. I wonder if I should try to contact Fireman's Fund directly, and see if they have any info about my "policy" with "Music Pro"?
BTW.... Anyone get a detailed list of coverage, deductibles, etc. etc. from "Music Pro"? What about you guys that are using something else, you got a completely detailed list of what the actual coverage consist of didn't you? The paper work for my car insurance seems way more in-depth and informative than what I got from Music Pro?
KID-
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#985882 - 03/25/02 11:36 AM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Originally posted by kid-surf:
I don't trust "Music Pro" because: The way they do business is very unprofessional. When you get the paper work it almost feels as if it's being run by some high school kid using his home computer [It doesn't even list exactly what you are covered against???]? Also, I've tried to contact them 3 times trying to get more coverage with no response? Go with someone else, I say!!!
Yeah...they are hard to get on the phone, but I managed after 3-4 tries during one day.
I'm still in the process of "shopping". I am currently covered by my State Farm home owners policy...but my agent is still checking-up (she's slow) on a more formal "Home Business" policy just to cover the studio.
It will get me out of any "gray area" that a "home owners only" policy might create, in case there is a loss.
If you have any more specific information on the Fireman's or anything else...post it up here rather than on the other forums, since this is the " Music Business Forum".
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985883 - 03/27/02 02:30 AM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Chaz
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Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 352
Loc: Tampa,FL,
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Originally posted by miroslav:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by kid-surf:
I'm still in the process of "shopping". I am currently covered by my State Farm home owners policy...but my agent is still checking-up (she's slow) on a more formal "Home Business" policy just to cover the studio.
I might have a place for you to contact. I have to look up the telephone number. They had very reasonable rates. I think $10/$1000. They also have other options to add at an additional but fair rate. I will look for the info tomorrow and post it.
_________________________
Haven Music Productions
Tampa, FL
www DOT havenmp DOT com
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#985884 - 03/27/02 07:00 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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Chaz
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Registered: 02/04/02
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Loc: Tampa,FL,
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Originally posted by chaz@havenmp:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by miroslav:
[qb][QUOTE]Originally posted by kid-surf:
I'm still in the process of "shopping". I am currently covered by my State Farm home owners policy...but my agent is still checking-up (she's slow) on a more formal "Home Business" policy just to cover the studio.
Check out http://www.unitedagencies.com for equipment insurance and the different policies they have. If you cannot find out anything on the site, call them at 1-800-800-5880 and ask for John Ramirez. The name of the company is United Agencies Inc.. They are located in Pasadena, CA.
Last time I checked with them by phone, they told me $50K of equip for $500/yr, $100K of euip for $750/yr. This comes with a $1000 deductible. And best of all, they have worldwide coverage and an equipment floater policy.
Check 'em out and let the group know what you came up with.
_________________________
Haven Music Productions
Tampa, FL
www DOT havenmp DOT com
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#985885 - 03/28/02 05:32 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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duskb
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Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 194
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
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Originally posted by miroslav:
/QUOTE]OK...this is good...I'm in NY State.
So maybe to help me (and others) from covering the same turf...
...how many other companies did you check out and/or what kind of information did you find that ultimately made you decide MusicPRo was the best choice?
I have a couple of other potential alternatives to check...and I'm still waiting on my homeowner's (State Farm) agent to call me back with my options and rates.
I don't want to spend too much more time...I would sleep easier if I knew this was taken care of properly...so, any informational short-cuts would help.[/QB]
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#985886 - 03/28/02 05:52 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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duskb
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Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
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Originally posted by chaz@havenmp: Check out http://www.unitedagencies.com for equipment insurance and the different policies they have. If you cannot find out anything on the site, call them at 1-800-800-5880 and ask for John Ramirez. The name of the company is United Agencies Inc.. They are located in Pasadena, CA. Last time I checked with them by phone, they told me $50K of equip for $500/yr, $100K of euip for $750/yr. This comes with a $1000 deductible. And best of all, they have worldwide coverage and an equipment floater policy. Check 'em out and let the group know what you came up with.[/QB]
I cant really say much in response to the guy that accused them of being unprofessional...I did get the feel that I needed to ride Music Pro to get a response on occasion but the policy was real and the final binder was several pages long. Their homebase of operations are in NY and I believe the insurace there is pretty heavilly regulated (as in CA). If they are really a scam I think the consumer protection agency would have shut them down by now.
My policy will be up for renewal in August...I will be calling them to check up on the state of business with them but assuming they get back to me quickly I see no reason to start up another year with them.
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#985887 - 03/28/02 07:15 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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miroslav
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Well...that is what I've come to notice too...there are a few choices, but many are too expensive.
Music Pro has given the best rates that I could find so far...less than $7 per $1000 of equipment.
I see some folks "think" that they appear a bit "shady", but no one has listed any specific reasons or actual events that cause them to feel that way.
I spoke with a friend who is an insurance broker in another state, and he told me that $6-$7 per $1000 of equipment is a good price.
So, for those of you that are paying much more than that...why are you and what more are you getting for that extra cost?
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#985888 - 03/28/02 11:27 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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kid-surf_dup1
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Registered: 10/30/01
Posts: 75
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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duskb-
Did you mean to say "I see no reason {NOT} to start up another year with them?
BTW... I noticed you're in earthquake country too. That's definitely a big factor for us!
You know what, I never got the several page binder that you're referring to? That's part of the reason why I think or thought they act, are, or might be unprofessional?
Had I gotten this binder you're referring to I would have a totally different vibe from them. Then i would just feel that they don't return phone calls or e-mails in a timely manor, if ever? Seriously, I've been waiting 4 months for them to get back to me.
What I'm trying to say is: It sure sucks if they really are a good insurer just with crapy customer service, that really gives me a bad vibe. But the bottom line is I'd choose good coverage over lip service any day! But on the other hand are they going to treat you this same
way should something happen, It sure make you wonder?
I just want to know I'm covered. I think I need to have them send me this binder you're talking about. All I got was a list of my gears serial numbers with the price next to it stating the amount to insure each piece. I'm guessing what you got from them was more thorough?
I'll try to get through to them tomorrow....
KID-
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#985889 - 03/29/02 02:58 PM
Re: Studio Equipment Insurance - Hassels/Solutions...?
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duskb
Senior Member
Registered: 06/15/01
Posts: 194
Loc: Los Angeles, Ca
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duskb- Did you mean to say "I see no reason {NOT} to start up another year with them?
BTW... I noticed you're in earthquake country too. That's definitely a big factor for us!
You know what, I never got the several page binder that you're referring to? That's part of the reason why I think or thought they act, are, or might be unprofessional?
I suppose it's worth getting upset about to some people but I did my research before I bought so I wouldnt have doubts later. Yes they score really bad points on getting back to their insured but I do have a binder that is backed up by the Firemans Fund. If they offer up any lip to me the Firemans Fund have offices local to me and I wouldnt hestitate to walk in and raise Hell if I needed to. I suggest you call them up and get a bit forceful with them as well. I found Laura Donelan was helpful but needed to be reminded that my policy was very important to me and that I wouldn't just forget about it after I paid up. She got me a copy of the binder via a pdf file and mailed a copy the same day. Hopefully you will get the same results.
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