#974792 - 07/21/00 08:51 PM
Holy Microphones
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junglegirl@earthlink.net
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My tech guy Larry has a question:
His church is looking to invest in some new microphones for vocals and instrumentation. He needs a couple of hand-held wireless units as well as some SM57 &SM58 style mics. What are some recommendations? Are the SM57's and 58's like the NS-10's of the monitor world? There's got to be something much better for reproduction of tonal quality. Keep in mind it's on a church budget. (But not a little church)
Thanks for your thoughts!
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#974793 - 07/21/00 08:57 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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57's and 58's are fine. Why spend a ton of money for that application?
As for wireless? That's not an area I've ever explored.
Oh darn, I just ripped my T-Shirt and my clock died..... how unfortunate.
Rich...
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#974794 - 07/21/00 09:49 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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junglegirl@earthlink.net
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It just so happens I know where you can get a t-shirt and clock, if you're real nice to me!
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#974795 - 07/22/00 01:03 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Jon Atack
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SM58s for vocals are really just fine. Every singer knows them, as well.
For the rest, what instruments does your church plan to mic up?
And can I get a t-shirt too if I'm nice enough?
Jon
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#974796 - 07/22/00 01:07 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Jon Atack
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Oh yes, for wireless vocal mics I prefer the Shures over the next most popular ones, the Sennheisers. Either way, make sure your wireless installation, once setup, doesn't change all the time...cuts down on unplanned holy RF interference shrieks.
T-shirt?
Jon
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#974797 - 07/22/00 01:38 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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I'm a nice guy... and Santa says I've been a good boy this year. 
Rich...
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#974798 - 07/22/00 07:06 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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poff@hotmail.com_dup1
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Loc: aylesford pl,KY,UNITED STATES
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THE AUDIO-TECHNICA AT4054 & 4055 REALLY BLOW ME AWAY. THEY'RE ABOUT 3 TO 4 TIMES AS COSTLY
AS A 58, BUT SOUND ABOUT 1O TIMES BETTER.
I WOULD SPEND THE EXTRA BUCKS EVEN IF YOU CAN
ONLY AFFORD ONE TO USE AS A MAIN VOCAL MIC.
THIS MIC EVEN BLOWS PEOPLE'S MINDS WHO KNOW NOTHING ABOUT SOUND.
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#974799 - 07/22/00 07:25 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Sounds like overkill to me. Save the money unless you're building studio.
Rich...
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#974800 - 07/23/00 08:29 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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THE MIX FIX
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Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Karen:
57s and 58s sound like overkill for a Church. Get them used for $50.00 a piece. 
OR, get something that feeds back all the time, so you can keep the people in the Church awake. 
And ask Rich if he knows how to tell time before you waste a clock on him!! 
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Bob.
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#974801 - 07/24/00 03:16 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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[[ Mix Fix said: ]]
[[ and ask Rich if he knows how to tell time before you waste a clock on him!! ]]
Wow, Bob finally said something funny.
Rich...
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#974802 - 07/24/00 04:59 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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junglegirl@earthlink.net
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Rich - Are you a member of the KRK family? The reason I'm so nice to Bob is that he has some V8's. Send me your address so I can send you some stuff.
Let's get a wager going here guys. Does anyone want to bet if Ed will actually reply to this? (Or is he letting you take over Bob?)
Karen
P.S. Thanks for all of your responses. They are greatly appreciated!
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#974803 - 07/24/00 06:10 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Ed Cherney
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Registered: 02/11/00
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Loc: Venice, Ca.
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You know, megaphones have worked for over 2 hundred years. You can build one yourself, and no electricity is required. it will fit right into a church budget, and very little technical know how is required. it was good enough for Rudy Valli and Jolson. I'm sure this will help.
ed c
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#974804 - 07/24/00 09:52 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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THE MIX FIX
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Loc: NYC Area
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PLUS:
You can get more Cheerleaders with Megaphones!!
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Bob.
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#974805 - 07/24/00 09:57 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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When you say "K ROCK FAMILY" you mean???
:-)
Rich...
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#974806 - 07/25/00 02:02 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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alphajerk
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/06/00
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Loc: asheville nc usa
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id be happy to adopt a set of twins, become a krock foster home for a needy pair. just email me and i can send you my address so you can send those out.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974807 - 07/25/00 02:14 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Hey, me first!
Well, I must admit that I am not an official KRK family member... but we did have a set of V8's in the C-Room of the last studio I worked.
But since I am not an official family member I shan't ask for any freebies. It just wouldn't be fair.
Rich...
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#974808 - 07/25/00 05:44 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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larrya@krksys.com
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Hi there,
I'm the Larry that Karen mentioned. I asked Karen for the posting because I thought this was a place to come for honest help. Maybe this is just for comedy relief. Oh and don’t we need it!
I run the FOH console at my church. Music is a MAJOR part of our services. We play anything from Abba to Zappa (A-Z). Then in some way or another the lyrics are brought into perspective in the message for the days service.
We are in the process of building a new facility. The floor plan for the sanctuary is basically the same as “The House of Blues” seating around 1,100.
I may know what I am doing when I design a new monitor for you guys to use, but I am trying to learn how to be an FOH engineer by just doing it. In the new facility we will be doing live multi-track recordings as well as some studio recordings and over-dubs. We are presently using a Mackie d8b as the FOH console. Which when we get to the new building we will retire this to the studio and get a real console for the live mix. I have run as many as 36 channels during a service which can be a hassle when having to flip through the layers. Plus the inability to have access to all elements of a channel at my finger tips is also a bummer. The new board will hopefully have at least 48 inputs (probably a ML5000 or PM4000). We’re not as cheap as would be expected for a church. At the same time I’ll probably never own a U-67 for my vocals.
I realize “church” may sound about as serious as we use to think the need for clarity or stereo was to the Country industry (Ok, so now I’m feeding the comedy forum. Sorry Chuck), but as far as those at my church are concerned, they’d like to hear the live version of what they get from listening to their CD’s or the radio. I’ll usually run around 102-105dB at the console during a service without any complaints of volume. I know SPL and sound quality are not necessarily synonymous. You’d also be surprised at the level of talent of some of the musicians you can find in the different churches around here.
The needs for me to be able to provide the congregation with the best possible sound are important. So please help me with good, sound advice.
Thanx!,
Larry
[This message has been edited by larrya@krksys.com (edited 07-25-2000).]
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#974809 - 07/25/00 06:39 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Uh Clem
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Registered: 03/13/00
Posts: 3442
Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
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Frank Zappa! Wow - what a church!
I think the good info is here - you just have to wade thru the comedy.
I see all sorts of the best performers with huge budgets using 58s, and other common dynamic mics wireless or otherwise. I don't use wireless, but I think the likely players have been mentioned.
For nicer handheld/cabled, the AKG 535EB Condensor($200) or the Neumann KMs140/150 ($$$$) are certainly fine sounding mics.
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#974810 - 07/25/00 10:24 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Dembones_dup1
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Registered: 02/11/01
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Loc: Medford,OR,UNITED STATES
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My Church invested in a dozen Beta87s. A little spendy, but worth it. Much better than 57/58 for feedback, and they sound better on some instruments too.
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Demian Norvell
AppleSeed Studios
Ruch, OR
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#974811 - 07/25/00 11:07 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Jon Atack
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Registered: 04/22/00
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Loc: Paris, France
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Wow, what a church 'facility'...Business must be good!
Larry, you seem like a no nonsense fellow, so I'll expand on my earlier reply.
One of my hats I wear is that of a partner in a concert promotion firm, and I get fairly involved in dealing with the technical riders for some of the larger tours.
The production managers for folks like Joe Cocker, Chris Rea, Annie Lennox of the Eurythmics, Run DMC, David Bowie, Brian May of Queen, and Robert Smith of the Cure asked us to provide Shure SM58s and Shure wireless mics.
Very often, the artist's PM brings along his own Shure wireless and SM58 as well. If it's good enough for them...
Basically, I have never seen any artist require any other mics to be provided for live concert vocals.
Those who have special preferences usually bring their own mic that no one but themselves have sung/breathed/spat into.
That is the longer version of my brief earlier reply to you. Good luck with your live concert church venue.
Jon
Capitol Studios Paris / Atack Concerts
[This message has been edited by Jon Atack (edited 07-25-2000).]
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#974812 - 07/25/00 11:21 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Jon Atack
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Loc: Paris, France
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Oh yes, nowadays the riders ask for 58s OR Beta 58s OR Beta 87s. 
Of course, you can spend much holier sums on more expensive mics.
Is there a regular group of steady house performers, or do you have many guest performers? Guest performers might feel less comfortable with an unfamiliar mic, even if great-sounding, than they will with a mic they know well from having used it in hundreds of gigs and venues.
If you're really worried about sound quality, then avoid the wireless mics. It's amazing how often they sound clearly worse than the backup SM58. You'll spend a lot of $$ on frequent battery changes every Sunday, just being safe that the batteries will make it through to the end of the service.
By the way, I'm thinking of buying a pair of KRK E8s, and would appreciate an internet address with more information about them.
Jon
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#974813 - 07/27/00 01:18 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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THE MIX FIX
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Registered: 03/01/00
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Larry:
Steve is right. We just like to kid around a bit here and there.
But, EVERYTHING EVERYBODY has posted is true.
You are fine with the 57s and 58s, or the Betas, or any thing comparable that you may try and like, including the new Neumann stage vocal mic.
One thing, I'm glad to agree on, is that doing live sound with a Digital console, like the Mackie, is a total pain in the, (since this is for Church), neck!!
You HAVE to have ALL of your faders and knobs accessible to you simultaneously, so you can grab whatever needs to be tweaked, without thinking. In the time you would have to shift "banks" on a Digital console, the "cue" may be gone, the solo may have already started, or the feedback may have gotten out of control.
Until you have a set that is repeated each performance, Digital, Automation, and even MIDI parameters for live sound will usually slow you down more than they will help you, in a "Wing it, Live" situation.
Good luck!!
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Bob.
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#974814 - 07/27/00 01:37 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Jon Atack
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Larry,
Thank you for your kind email and the KRK information.
Like Steve and Bob mentioned, we like to let off steam here sometimes. Comedy and occasional rants sure do help unwind at the end of the day...beats sitting in front of the TV.
Jon
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#974815 - 07/27/00 02:04 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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I never see Robin Williams apologizing for being funny.
Rich...
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#974816 - 07/27/00 12:32 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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THE MIX FIX
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Since when was Robin Willams ever funny(except when he went ALL the way to France, to "watch" a bicycle race, which consisted of seeing someone zip past him in two seconds), and what does he know about 57s or 58s? 
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Bob.
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#974817 - 07/27/00 03:12 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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junglegirl@earthlink.net
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Why is everyone apologizing to Larry? You guys are weak!Larry has a great sense of humor, he's just been locked up in his office for too long!
I'm going out back to give him a pep-talk. He takes his work very seriously (like the rest of you)and does a great job.
I think a couple of days off would do the trick. Now we're back to that end of project blues thing. Yipes!
Thanks to all for your input, and especially your humor! Keep up the good work.
Karen
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#974819 - 07/28/00 02:15 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Uh Clem
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Posts: 3442
Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
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I'll take a crack at it - 10%, right?
So what do I win? That other dude was giving away Pultecs. How about some V8s?
And who's appologizing? They got a tax-exempt entertainment extravaganza going on there - I feel no pity
[This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 07-28-2000).]
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#974820 - 07/28/00 06:07 AM
Re: Holy Microphones
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alphajerk
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Registered: 03/06/00
Posts: 7950
Loc: asheville nc usa
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i was about to say, with all the money that churches sucker out of people you should be able to afford some really nice mics. that is unless the preacher/minister/priest/rabbi/whoever is embezzling all the money out of it which isnt unheard of.
get some U87's for that radio quality sound.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974821 - 07/28/00 04:50 PM
Re: Holy Microphones
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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[[ Bill wrote: ]]
[[ Since when was Robin Willams ever funny ]]
Since always?
[[ He also said: ]]
[[ (except when he went ALL the way to France, to "watch" a bicycle race, which consisted of seeing someone zip past him in two seconds) ]]
Speaking of the Tour De France, Lance Armstrong was on Jay Leno last night. He's an inspiration.
Jon, did you happen to watch the riders as they circled the Champs Elysees?
Rich...
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