#974695 - 07/10/00 10:06 AM
Help me place the gits
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c.cash
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Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 321
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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This is pretty basic and a matter of opinion, but does anyone have advice on this. The instruments are pretty straight-ahead rock: 1 guitar player, bass, drums, vocals, backup vocals. Maybe some last-minute percussion.
We doubled the guitar (Fender amp), which was a little too mellow, and then added a third track to get more bite. They all play the same thing, with embellishments here and there. The third track stays out of some verses. I was trying to sort of make one big guitar sound.
Then there are doubled lead guitar tracks. So far I like the Fenders wide L-R and the third track pretty much center. On the lead tracks I had him do things here and there to break the static. They break up the monotony and sound good as "ear candy" wide. But it seems like there might be some competetion going on.
There lots of options. I could just move the Fenders in, or just when the leads come in. Or go with fewer guitars, but in this case more seems like more. One lead track center...
Thanks for any opinions!
Curt
[This message has been edited by c.cash (edited 07-10-2000).]
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#974696 - 07/11/00 09:03 PM
Re: Help me place the gits
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Jon Atack
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Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 920
Loc: Paris, France
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Hi Curt,
I would use an even number of rhythm guitar tracks (usually just two, can the third one and re-do your tracks properly with the final sounds you need) and pan them slightly inside of full-out left/right or all the way out.
Watch your phase meter and listen for phase cancellations between the wide-panned guitars. If you have phase problems, you may need to either re-record one of the tracks or slightly pan in one or both of them a little to avoid the guitars disappearing too much in mono. Check your guitar panning in mono, too; try looking for the best pan settings while listening in mono.
I would almost never pan a rhythm guitar straight up the middle because that space is usually already pretty crowded with the vocal, bass drum and bass guitar, with the snare not far away.
Lead git panning is a matter of taste and context, but don't pan it the same as the rhythm guitars. I more often record the lead in stereo rather than doubled, but it depends once again on the context.
Good luck,
Jon
[This message has been edited by Jon Atack (edited 07-11-2000).]
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#974697 - 07/11/00 09:40 PM
Re: Help me place the gits
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alphajerk
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Registered: 03/06/00
Posts: 7950
Loc: asheville nc usa
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i agree with a few addendums of my own. i do two guitars (or just one track split to two different amps). i get the level mono between the two of them (and phase issues will show up here but my two sounds are always different, fender&marshall) then i spread one which has more bite to one side at either 10/2 oclock and then spread the other almost all the way to the other side, 7/5 oclock. then i pop into mono mode and raise their levels till they sound right and back to stereo. they usually sound loud as hell but no overbearing the other parts, bass/drums/vox.
or if i have just one guitar i mult the signal and eq differently and add delay to the backing side (lower in level) ultimately i want a focal point with the guitar track and not just smearing it across the field. listening to the pan, usually i get the main guitar just to one side of the drums, so where the sound doesnt encroach on them but it doesnt sound off to the side either. the other side im listening for a bouncing off the side wall effect (hence delay signal)
hope any of these ideas help, there a million things you can do. super squashing one side with an expander following the compressor will make so massive thickness with getting muddy mix. sometimes a reverb panned opposite dry signal with a quick gate. i dunno.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974698 - 07/12/00 09:17 AM
Re: Help me place the gits
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c.cash
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Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 321
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Wow. Great advice from both of you. Rerecording the guitars isn't an option at this point. I'm not noticing (surprisingly) any phase probs in mono. I'll try putting some of the other suggestion to use though, especially the panning-in-mono idea. Thanx.
J.A.- if you record your leads in stereo, then you must have your rhythms pulled in some, right? Or do automate it so they only pan in for the lead?
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#974699 - 07/12/00 09:51 AM
Re: Help me place the gits
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Quin
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Registered: 04/17/00
Posts: 286
Loc: Hampton/McDonough, GA, USA
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I usually pan the alt-rhy or alt-lead parts at 11 or 1 oclock. And if you have phase problems - if you are working on a DAW - grab the out-of-phase phrase from the guitar that is most out of time and shift it forwards/backwards - and that'll resolve the phase issue.
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#974700 - 07/19/00 01:17 AM
Re: Help me place the gits
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arthur@canaveralskies.com
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Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 35
Loc: New York,NY,UNITED STATES
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I would try delaying one of the hard-panned guitars by 30-60ms.
Then maybe roll off some of its highs above 4-5K.
You'll get two different sounds, one of which you might perceive
as a pleasant single-reflection echo or as a warm thickener,
depending on the delay time. Watch out for strange cancellations
in mono, though. If you get them you can always futz with the
delay times by a few ms here or there. Then again, mono
compatibility isn't everything.
Arthur
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#974701 - 07/21/00 03:34 AM
Re: Help me place the gits
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c.cash
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Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 321
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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Thanks for your input.
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#974702 - 07/21/00 05:57 AM
Re: Help me place the gits
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Jon Atack
Gold Member
Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 920
Loc: Paris, France
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C.Cash, in answer to your question, a stereo lead guitar doesn't have to be panned extreme right and left. Maybe more like 8am and 11am, or 9am and 2pm, it depends.
I wouldn't usually shift my rhythm guitar pans just because a lead guitar comes in because that would probably sound unnatural. Just make sure that the lead guitar is occupying a different sonic space than the other guitars. How you do that will depend on the situation.
Jon
[This message has been edited by Jon Atack (edited 07-21-2000).]
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