#974423 - 05/02/00 11:56 PM
dist gits
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Anonymous
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hI what do you guys do when it comes to dist gits. i am recording a a band that sounds like deftones and when I bring in the double tracked gits it eats up all the room but when I cut 300hz or some bottor the git is to thin what should I do and what do you guys do.jonathan
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#974424 - 05/09/00 10:58 PM
Re: dist gits
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Ed Cherney
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That's always the challenge with rock and roll guitar bands....getting the guitars to kick, drums to kick, vocals to kick.....more everything, please. Beleive it or not, in situations like this, it's the midrange 600, 700, 800 Hz.....a little boost there, don't go as much for the 5 K crunch that people usually go to. And then, it's really a question of balance, you would not think that for loud music, balances would be so delicate, but for these kinds of records, guitar/drum/vocal balances are so, so delicate.....you just have to sometimes turn the volume down and get your ear in there and find a way to make it work. Listening and comparing your balances against great rock records really helps. I like to use AC/DC "Back In Black". Hope this helps.
ed c
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#974425 - 05/09/00 11:00 PM
Re: dist gits
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Ed Cherney
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Oh, LA-2A's and 1176's (with slow attack times)can help glue guitar balances.
ed c
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#974426 - 05/10/00 12:28 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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Hi I thought no one was going to reply to this one thank you. I usually boost 2 or 3 k with the 5 k thing. But I can see what you mean I pulled out back in black and it does seem that the main push is in the 600-800 range. thank you I have one more question what does an LA-2A and 1176 do to the sound? and if I can find one how much do they go for how does an 1172 sound? and how much do they go for? I ask cause no one I know seems to know how much they go for and they just use a pro tool plug in to get the same sound. I am more of a rack mount guy. all the best jonathan
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#974427 - 05/10/00 01:14 AM
Re: dist gits
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Ed Cherney
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With the LA-2A can help you make the harmonic structure a little, or a lot more dense, and the right amount of compression can help support it in the track, hoping to make the guitar apparently louder without really eating up too much more space. Also, a fairly slow attack time let's the initial attack pop, approximating some dynamic action. The 1176 doesn't add to the harmonic content, much, but you can "stomp stuff real good". The variable attack and release controls really help you control the attack, and especially with guitars, the shape of the envelope and the sustain. Kind of like letting the guitar hit, get out of the way a little bit, make room for something else, stand up again, etc. etc.
ed c
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#974428 - 05/10/00 03:00 AM
Re: dist gits
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alphajerk
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apparently, they are now reissuing them. soppusedly building from the exact same parts. couldnt tell you more than that.
yea, if you add to much 5k, the level gets too loud on the top and not enough DL. i low cut the G but add the mids. usually though its more of a problem when the guitarist doesnt have his tone together.
amps play the biggest problem in the flabby bottom. i played through tons of them. mesa triple is good, vht is best(with KT88's, not the el34 model). i have also heard the valvestate marshall sound so nice which was really weird. also the boss heavy metal pedal. if i get a good sound in the room, it sounds good on "tape". dont the 57's add @ 5k anyways?
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alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974429 - 05/10/00 03:53 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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seems to me that 57s add in the 2k dep?
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#974430 - 05/10/00 05:38 AM
Re: dist gits
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Anonymous
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Yep, Universal Audio is now re-making the 1176LN and the LA-2A. Theyt ain't cheap. I think they want something like $2300 for the 1176. I forgot the other price.
Rich...
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#974431 - 05/10/00 06:34 AM
Re: dist gits
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alphajerk
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anyone used the royer ribbon mic on guitar? its absolutely heavenly. smoothest mic ive ever heard on a guitar. finally make you NOT use a 57.
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alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974432 - 05/10/00 08:45 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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I gave up on 57s a few years back I use a audix d2 or 3 or d1 they are great. but the ribbon mic sounds cool tell me more about them. for git.
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t.v creates imaginary friends for lonely people.
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#974434 - 05/10/00 09:50 AM
Re: dist gits
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c.cash
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Alpha - seek out Julian Standen for this one...
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#974435 - 05/10/00 10:25 AM
Re: dist gits
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Pro Jules
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YOOOOOOOU RAAAAAAANG?
Yarz!, the royer Stereo ribbon mic is awsome, I trued it in a stone dungeon style drum rooom I like to use and on the previous session the C24 vintage valve AKG stereo mic hadn't realy done well, the royer was amazing.. Great metalwork sound.
Amust try, unfortunnately the ribbons are different to the ones in the 121 that everyone is raving about for GTRs, I did't get round to trying it on GTR which was dumb of me..
Joooooooolz
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#974436 - 05/10/00 04:33 PM
Re: dist gits
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Ed Cherney
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57's have always worked really well for me, and to change, I needed to hear something that was dramatically better. I have been using the Royer ribbon the last 6 months.....now I usually push the fader up, set a level to tape, and record, thankyouverymuch.
ed c
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#974437 - 05/10/00 04:44 PM
Re: dist gits
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Anonymous
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Ed, you're using the Royer ribbon on the snare?
Rich...
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#974438 - 05/11/00 04:58 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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years ago I was told that ribbon mics are so touchy that any wind like more then what would put out a match would kill the mic. sounds really stupid to me is there any truth to the amount of spl that it can handle?
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#974439 - 05/11/00 07:21 AM
Re: dist gits
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THE MIX FIX
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Registered: 03/01/00
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The STEREO Royer is originally a mic (still) made by Robert T. Speiden, as in the Royer/Speiden SP-12 (Speiden's Folley) designation.
He is an old friend of mine, and has been making them for well over 18 years. A company I owned used to distribute them for a while, in, maybe, 1985. Royer just picked up the line for distribution, recently.
That's why they sound different. Two different designers, and manufacturers.
He HATES contemporary music, and will laugh when I show him these posts about what they're being used for.
They were originally concieved as Ochestral, Choir, or Polka band mics.
He also recorded my band's FIRST demo, in, er.. a LONG time ago, live to two track.
------------------
Bob.
[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 05-11-2000).]
[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 05-11-2000).]
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#974440 - 05/11/00 10:17 AM
Re: dist gits
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Pro Jules
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Right that's it A stereo Royer AND a 121 is needed ASAP!
Fletcher @ Mercenaryaudio.com likes the Royer on Bass drum, (but back a bit!) He sells em.
Jules
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#974441 - 05/11/00 01:51 PM
Re: dist gits
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Kobb
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I don't have much experience using mics with a Figure 8" pattern (such as the Royer 121), and I have ZERO experience using ribbon mics. What are some of the placement considerations? Is it necessary to put some damping material BEHIND the mic if you want a tighter, less ambient sound?
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#974442 - 05/11/00 09:02 PM
Re: dist gits
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Pro Jules
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I've had good results in 'wild / nasty rooms' where I realy dont want too much ambience, somehow it worked out fine...
As low as you can geat away with over the toms and cymbals.
Jules
P.S. a comment from another newsgroup 'old hand' , that ribbons seem to suit getting overheads to digital, further convice me.
PPS. .I dont own royers yet but my latest direct to DAW discovery was to use an SSL compressor on the Overheads as a last chance Texaco to get that characteristic rock sound I used to get on analog.
[This message has been edited by Julian standen (edited 05-11-2000).]
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#974443 - 05/12/00 03:05 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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the ssl compressor's are great on the whole mix i find and great on the sn. no one talked about the what the spl leavel is on the ribbong mics. also are there any other ribbon mics that are less $ but to a great job? I am planing on up grading my protools rig so less money on a mic would be good.
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#974444 - 05/12/00 03:34 PM
Re: dist gits
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THE MIX FIX
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Shame on your Pro Tool users, using an Analogue SSL Stereo Buss Compressor to "Try and get that Analogue sound"!!
Can't you find some lame Pro Tools Plug in that will do the trick?
Since, I guess, you can't, the Alan Smart Compressor is basically the same thing (He designed the SSL compressor, I believe), but doesn't have that Nasty SSL, logo on it, so everyone will still think you're a cool Digital guy.
------------------
Bob.
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#974445 - 05/12/00 06:23 PM
Re: dist gits
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alphajerk
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130 or 138 spl on the royer 121. plenty for most anything you would be in the room with or anybody for that matter. if your hitting spls above that, who cares what mike you use cause you wont be hearing it for long.
the old ribbons had the problem you are referring to but apparently technology produced something nicer that back in the day.
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alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974446 - 05/13/00 12:07 AM
Re: dist gits
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Pro Jules
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The Alan Smart version is the best to go for as it's got the extra 'crush' mode and indavidual mono operation capabilities, My SSL comp gets hired out a lot so I am satified with it.
Jules
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#974447 - 05/13/00 12:17 AM
Re: dist gits
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Uh Clem
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Anyone have a good source for the Alan Smart and/or the SSL G384?
Thanks.
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#974448 - 05/13/00 08:45 AM
Re: dist gits
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Pro Jules
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Fletcher at mercenaryaudio.com, tell him I sent you. Only get the SSL one if you need it for 'client confidence', otherwise go for the cheaper Alan Smart which has same + more optons,anyhow Fletcher will tell you....
Jules
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#974449 - 05/13/00 06:13 PM
Re: dist gits
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Harvey Gerst
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Most of the older ribbons will max out at 125 dB, but that's for frequencies above about 110 Hz or more. Below that, the amount of sound it can handle drops rapidly. At 55Hz, most ribbons will blow at anything over about 110 dB or so. RCA recommended never being closer than 2 feet from the source for most of their ribbon mics. Most ribbons are more likely to blow from drafts and/or moving them around too rapidly.
A Coles 4038, or RCA 44BX, about 18" out from a 4x12 Marshall, is one of the most gorgeous sounds on earth.
------------------
_________________________
Harvey Gerst Indian Trail Recording Studio ITRstudio.com
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#974450 - 05/23/00 05:46 AM
Re: dist gits
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jfinevog
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how much do the Alan Smart's go for?all the best jonathan
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#974451 - 06/09/00 09:37 AM
Re: dist gits
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Anonymous
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The main thing to make stuff cut through is to choose where to cut frequencies, not boost. Cut lows and highs wherever you can. Look for where you can cut mids on every instrument. Carve out holes for stuff to punch through.
Remember: 4 areas to cut through and carve.
1. Volume
2. Frequency
3. Timbre
4. Panning
Use'em all to the max. And ALWAYS listen in the mix context. Sounds that sound great outside the mix are USELESS!!! How does it fit up to the rest of the mix?
Where is the peak frequency of your lead singer? Cut it big time during vocals on your guitars so he/she can shine. Then PUMP that sucka for guitar leads and watch them POP outta your speakers!!
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#974452 - 06/10/00 03:19 AM
Re: dist gits
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slicraider
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I recently cut some BIG "gits" using a combination of 57 and Coles Ribbon mics. The combo bussed to LA2As then patched to tape. The sound was punchy with lots of definition. For the double I added the room mic used on the drums during the basic. When mixing it fit well with the drum ambience and left romm for the close miced gtr to kick. It provided an interesting texture.
Rick S.
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