#974136 - 05/11/00 09:41 PM
Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Rob G
Senior Member
Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 47
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA USA
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Ed,
I have some questions about Mini Monitor placement. My production group currently uses the Event 20/20bas monitors. We're about to purchase the matching subwoofers.
We decided that we had to because after I took some of my producers into some major studios((Starstruck, Emerald,(Emerald/Master-
fonic's(Tracking & Mix Rooms)),Sound Stage, &
Sound Kitchen)of Nashville, & Brentwood,TN),
((Electric Lady, Daddy's House, Chung King,& Unique)of New York,NY) they realized how much low end information they were not detecting in their preliminary mixes. We're planing on using this (20/20bas
W./matching subwoofer combination when we
go to TN,NY,CA,FL,IL,GA,or UK to do our final production. We want to use the console top track available for use on the SSL, & Neve
consoles. The following might seem a little
unorthodox but I'll mention it anyway. We need a solution irrespective of other peoples opinions that would not fall into the category of positive criticism. Let them judge the product after it hits the record stores. I say this humbly, & respectfully to the observing entertainment community. Would you recommend placing the subwoofer on the console top track with the L/R speakers. If not where could we put it that will not create constant, & inconsistent phase
problems between the subwoofer, & the 20/20's every time we move the 20/20's up, & down the console track if the subwoofer is mounted somewhere else other than on the console track with the 20/20's. I believe that we can do a fixed phase correction to make up for the distance discrepancies in the position of the subwoofer, the 20/20's, and the engineer's sweet spot if they are mounted on the same surface which would be the console track at this point. From what I see most any other arrangement where the subwoofer is mounted on a different surface other than where the 20/20's are placed presents the 20/20's being at constantly different distances from the subwoofer depending upon where on the console track the 20/20's are. This is the element I believe would induce the constant,& inconsistent phase problems. Do you have an equitable solution in mind. Additionally do you know of anyone who manufactures a sturdy, and portable monitor lift. We noticed some phase problems in evaluating the performance of the large monitors in the above rooms because the mini-monitors were in the way. This is no slight to the forementioned studio's main monitor acoustic performance. Five of the studios actually had main monitor systems that my people felt they could trust using as references for their final mixes while still use Mini-Monitors, & Auratone's as check points for final mix approvals. Please respond as soon as is professionally possible.
"Rob G".
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management.
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#974137 - 05/12/00 12:48 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
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Wow!
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#974138 - 05/12/00 01:05 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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(Hoisting White Flag)
Uncle!
We surrender!
Rich...
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#974139 - 05/12/00 05:42 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Ed Cherney
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Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 547
Loc: Venice, Ca.
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Well, hello Mr. Rob G. Wow, that's a lot of info. On George M's forum, the reply to his request for a clarification will be most interesting to read. Be careful not to drop that subwoooofer on the console. I don't know, I tend to hide them somewhere low, where I can't be affected by the heat and rays that they give off, they are omnidirectional, I believe. When I play DVD's or music only 5.1's at home, my dog does run for cover when the MGM Lion roars. That's a god thing, I think.
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#974140 - 05/12/00 05:44 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Ed Cherney
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Registered: 02/11/00
Posts: 547
Loc: Venice, Ca.
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Rich, what do you mean by preliminary mix?
Thanks,
ec
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#974141 - 05/12/00 12:53 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Rob G
Senior Member
Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 47
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA USA
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Ed,
I think this response is directed to me in reference to my original post on this subject. I made this judgement based upon
what's still up here on the forum board. I apologize if this is not directed to me. Someone could have stated something, and removed it from this post before I observed it. You said Rich, but I think you ment Rob
which is me. You posted the question "What do you mean by a preliminary mix?". What that means to me is in the domain of some genres of music people are setting up tight stereo mixes just for the vocalist, or performer to lay down their vocal, or solo instrumentalist tracks. These initial mixes are saved to two tracks of a multi-track, and used for some initial recording,& overdubs. They are definately saved for future recalls in the consoles automation recall system. We do this in addition to the standard individual cue mixes for each performer/instrumentalist. In some cases but I would say very rarely these preliminary mixes make it to the final mix with just the vocals, and vocal effects added because of the "feel, or vibe" of the preliminary mix. The people I work with desire to make sure that even the preliminary
mixes are album/single ready as much possible
time allowing because you never know when the above senario might occur. I hope this answers your question. You probably do this in your own productions but term it differently. In a similar scheme of things my people call mastering "finalizing" whether
we use a Finalizer, or not.
Best Regards,
"Rob G"
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management
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#974142 - 05/13/00 03:33 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
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Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Rob:
Do you ever have any FUN when working?
It sounds more like you guys are dissecting frogs than recording music. That's all it is, recording Music, you know.
It DOES show when the group is enjoying itself, through their performances.
I don't know if I'd like to even pick up that CD; it sounds too Pseudo-Intellectual for me.
Most of my most sucessful recordings that, yes, DID make real dollars, for Major labels, were a blast to do!!
Ed is even asking for some jokes and humor on his board.
Sounds like this is your first big commercial release, and you are taking it WAY too seriously.
You and Mark L. should chill out a little and have some fun. After all, this is the Music, and ENTERTAINMENT business, not Brain Surgery!!
 
------------------
Bob.
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#974143 - 05/13/00 07:21 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
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Yeh, like who need stuffy stuf like music theory eh, Mixfix? It's just the music and getting it to tape that counts aint it?
Jules
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#974144 - 05/14/00 08:52 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Mark Lemaire
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Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 930
Loc: Emeryville, CA USA
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I resent (I think) being lumped in with Rob G., mostly because I enjoy writing a clear, well-crafted sentence.
ML
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#974145 - 05/14/00 08:52 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Mark Lemaire
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Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 930
Loc: Emeryville, CA USA
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Anyway, what ABOUT Rob G.'s interesting question about subwoofers? They usually sound odd to me, especially if the "normal" speakers don't go dep enuf... COULD it be phase?
ML
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#974146 - 05/14/00 10:30 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
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Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Julian:
You can take your Tool and Pro it.
------------------
Bob.
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#974147 - 05/14/00 10:35 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
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And Mark L.
Rob G.'s sentences were well crafted?!
I thought MOST people, including several Moderators, found them difficult to interpret.
------------------
Bob.
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#974148 - 05/15/00 03:41 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
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Rob G:
Since you are so passionate in your resolving of this point, I'll throw my 2 cents in, for what it's worth.
I've worked in several of the rooms you've mentioned, especially Unique in NYC, and I sincerely doubt the minor effect of the mini monitors in front of the mains will destroy your sound to the point that the mains become inaccurate.
Also, I think it's a foolish idea to place the subwoofer on the same axis as the mini monitors for several reasons.
First, the gain and directionality of the subwoofer will overpower the output of the minis. Even if you reduce the gain substantially, the dispersion of the minis will be effected by the Omni dispersion of the sub, causing way more wave interference and phase problems than the mini's reflections off the console's surface.
Second, the "Time Alignment" of the speakers must be considered. While most brands do this by physical driver placement, or electronic or passive delay, you would have to calculate the distance to place the subwoofer to be "Time Aligned", (a trademark of Doug Sax and the Mastering Lab Crossovers, but by using a similar process) relative to the minis to have the full bandwidth of all frequencies reach your ears simultaneously.
This may already be built into the minis, as it is in many brands of speakers, but while placing a subwoofer on the same plane and axis as them, that factor must be considered.
Third, but not finally, a "Rolling Speaker Stand" to establish a "Sweet Spot", would change at EVERY position in which you moved it to over the console.
If you are worried about the reflections from the knobs and buttons from Channel Assigns, EQs, Dynamics, and Cue Sends on an SSL giving you console reflections that disturb the waveforms from the minis, what will happen when you slide it to the center section, with the video monitor, and a different array of knobs and controls?
An entirely new set of reflections to deal with, it seems.
Not to mention that the area behind the monitor positioning, (and, even though these are nearfields, in the REAL WORLD, the room STILL does effect the sound of the minis to an extent), there will be a significant difference when you slide the stand from a background of rack equipment, to one of diffusers to one of absorbent material, including the amount of group members that are huddled in the "Sweet Spot".
So, with all that in mind, and the fact that MILLIONS of successful recordings have been made in the rooms you mentioned, with all the monitoring systems that exist there, I think you'll do fine using the existing technology to do your recordings, instead of trying to reinvent the wheel.
It's always good to ask questions, and try and improve techniques, but, if you are truly interested in making a good product and getting phone calls returned, worry a little more about getting it done with existing technologies, and let the manufacturers do the R&D to get new monitoring products out on the market.
Good luck with your projects
------------------
Bob.
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#974149 - 05/15/00 08:12 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Dear MixFix
Thanks for your last post. Your take on Rob G's idea is very useful and I was a little suprised that no one else brought it up...
As for my "Sentence" post, I think you missed my point, though I tried to be clear... 
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#974150 - 05/15/00 11:45 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
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Where did we get the term 'minis' from? Surley we are refering to nearfield monitors? (As precise, and profesor like language seems to be the order of the day!)
jules 'spelling bee' standen
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#974151 - 05/15/00 01:37 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
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Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Mark:
Thanks for the reply.
I "GOT" your last sentence. I was just trying to be polite to the author to whom you were referring when talking about the meaning of your sentences being CLEAR.
Julian:
I was merely referring to the Nearfields as "minis" to reply to the "Mature", somber, and serious tone of the post using this term, and the thread, in general.
I believe the author picked up that term from the time he may have actually used a SSL "Dinosaur." SSL labels the monitor pot for the Alternate/Nearfields as "Mini".
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Bob.
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#974152 - 05/15/00 02:28 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Rob G
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Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 47
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA USA
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Bob a.k.a. The Mix Fix,
Thanks for your response. This is exactly the kind of positive input I was looking for.
Congratulations you have risen to the occasion! You made some interesting points.
First of all Unique's monitor system was not
one of the systems that my people felt they
could trust. That's just our personal preference. No slight to the studio itself.
Electric Lady is hot! Chung King as well!
I'm going to get more specific now. Unique's
main monitors are mounted on a plane higher
than some other studio's main monitors. When
I say this they tend to look down at you a little more, so the mini-monitors don't have as much of an effect on what gets to your ears. In some studios like Emerald/Studio A the main monitors are mounted
lower on a more direct plane so that at some angles the mini-monitors can actually interfere with
the information coming out of the main monitors when they are slid to different
placements on the meter bridge. Once again I
wish I could insert a diagram as an attachment to this post. The same is the
case with The Boxer T5's that are in Starstruck in Nashville, and might still be in The Hit Factory/New York although I heard that The Hit Factory was replacing all of their main monitors with George Augspurger's monitors. I have'nt been to The Hit Factory in a little while. If they retrofitted the
Augspurger monitors in the
same place that the Boxers were then the
same problem could be occuring there as well in some of their rooms. Of
note the monitoring in Starstruck, and
The Hit Factory we could definately
obtain accurate results off of. In the post you mentioned gain, and directionality problems. The 20/20 15" subwoofer that we are planning on using has gain adjustment, so that should not be a factor for us. To my knowledge
most of what is going to be reproduced by
the subwoofer for us is in the frequency
domain that alot of people consider omnidirectional any way. If we run into
directional problems in that frequency range
we'll just purchase another duplicate subwoofer so to have one each for left, and right channels
respectivly. You addressed the issue of time
alignment. To my knowledge the phase adjustments for the subwoofer is what is
used to correctly time align the mini's with
the subwoofer. The 20/20 15" subwoofer has this adjustment. I believe any other subwoofer of integrity
has these types of adjustments available. You mentioned a problem with "The Sweet Spot" changing especially
with a video monitor. All the rooms that
we consider doing work in either have the
video monitor in the console(a huge one in
the 9000J, or Axiom-MT), or it's mounted in
the wall. Check out Sound on Sound/New York's Capricorn room for example. You can remove the video monitor, and use the one in the wall if you want. The same in the following list of rooms we would work out of that have consoles with console top video screens.
I'm talking "The Real World" my friend.
Addressing the console surface itself
I'm not so much talking about the knobs/switches as such but the surface
that they are mounted upon. That's where
a reflection does occur, so minus the (external meter bridge mounted) video
monitor, the console surface I'm refering
to is pretty much consistent from end to
end of the console. The surfaces are all
at the same angle. You mentioned studios
with rack equipment behind the console
in the plane or position from which the
main monitors would be firing. I don't
know of any room that we would work
in ((Larrabee, Record Plant, Record One, Soundcastle, Enterprise, Conway, Pacifique,
NRG in the LA area)(Emerald, East Iris, Starstruck, Soundstage in Nashille), and
(Sony Music, The Hit Factory, Chung King,
Electric Lady,Sound On Sound,Right Track,
Quad, Avatar in New York), and thats alot of studios, that has equipment
racks in the wall where the main monitors
are, or in the space between the wall where
the monitors are, and the console itself.
You would'nt be able to hear the main monitors to make any reasonable judgements in the latter case.
Most all of those rooms have a consistent
surface facing the back side of the mini-monitors in that side of the room.
Maybe some project studios you've been working in lately
have set ups like that. Our pre-production suite is not even set up like what you described. We have one wall with the same
consistent material surface facing the back side of our 20/20bas's. Of note the people I work with all want to be on, and stay on the cutting edge so we
are willing to experiment to get there. But all within reason.
I agree with you as far as leaving room
to ask questions, and trying to improve things
but I don't, and would'nt leave it up to the manufacturers alone to make all of the improvements.
I'm sure that George M., Ed C., & Roger N.,
have all received black boxes from manufacturers so that their input could be
given before a product came out. The offer has been extended to me myself. I'm sure they have sent communications to manufacturers to request product implementation, or improvements. I along with
other engineers in times past would call
S.S.L., and talk to Piers Plaskitt about putting moving faders on the 4000 series
console before they actually did it with Ultimation. I would
call Neve to talk to Peter Kehoe about getting Neve to put recall in the then V series console before it became the VR. I e-mailed Josh Thomas at AMEK
a couple of years ago about manufacturers
making all rack devices resettable with
program memory like the Sans Amp PSA-1.
And guess what. A few years later Rupert
Neve released a product called the Summit
MPE 200 that has just those features on it.
I also talked to Josh Thomas about doing an
in-line version of the AMEK 9098 console.
Guess what? They did it,and it's called
an AMEK 9098i. "The Real World" once again.
How do you think SSL got out of the initial sales slump that they had with the first 9000J's. Record Plant at the beginning had
one, and pulled it out. People complained about the first versions of the software so they came out with new software revisions.
Now they're selling plenty of them. And they're in use consistently.
I have a funny feeling that manufacturers,
studio owners, and other industry support
people may start watching this site to
keep up to snuff if we present some
concrete concepts. This should be useful
for the novice, and professional. I'm a little bit older but I like to stay on top
of what the new technological trends are, and are going to be. You never
know which novice will be the next hot
producer, artist, or engineer who might have your job, or could be getting work that you were trying to get. I'm getting work for just about all the people I represent. They're all young, and hungry;not complacent. Let's raise the bar at every chance available. Please keep us posted on any new ideas you have. That's how we make the improvements. Through trial, & error. You might have a perspective that I don't, and with the combined input we could come up with some great solutions.
"Rob G".
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management.
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#974153 - 05/15/00 03:03 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Rob:
If you have all this time to write, when do you record?
Anyway, I MEANT the video monitors mounted IN the SSLs for the difference in console surfaces.
The mention of the different reflecting surfaces behind the monitors was just used as an example, although MANY of the rooms you mentioned have "Producers Desks," with racks of equipment right behind the seats at the console. They may only be "Desk Height," but they are there, nonetheless, and affect the sound to a minor degree.
OF COURSE there isn't going to be any equipment between the Main monitors and the console, but how about a couch?
Or the lack of one, making that area a HUGE bass trap.
But, I STILL say when the whole "Crew" crowds the sweet spot, you have 10 times more absorption behind you than in ANY worse case scenario in a studio.
I don't care if someone stands directly in front of a Main speaker. Unless they totally block the tweeter, the speaker is still usable, as far as monitoring. You just have to adjust. Not that I recommend that, but having two tiny 20/20s on the top of the meter bridge wouldn't bother me in the least.
Also, I don't work in any project studios, except what I have at home, thank you, and I'm not at all paranoid about the accuracy of my room monitoring (And I do Mastering at home).
Which also leads me to bring up, HOW do you know that the Monitoring systems you are planning on using are accurate? Because they are loud, or sound good to you? Or because the studio time is expensive?
Do you do a RTA of the room?
The BOXERS at SONY sound shitty, to me, while the Tannoys at Unique sound fine, but Augsburgers sound too "brittle." Which one's are "correct"?
As far as the wave interference, I think, with no matter how much the gain is reduced on the subs, ANY overlapping frequencies from the 20/20s will be interfered with by the subs, if they are on the same plane.
That will cause comb filtering, phase problems, dispersion problems, and a whole shitload of other stuff the speakers were not designed to handle.
Ask Event themselves. I'm positive they didn't design them to be used that way, since many people use them without the subs.
They were made to output the lowest bass frequency accurately possible for that size cabinet, and the widest HF dispersion, as are virtually ALL speakers are made today.
Unless you can crossover the subs at a frequency BELOW the lowest frequency the 20/20s output, you'll have some problems.
AND, since when does Phase equal time?
You would have to calculate how far back or forward from the 20/20s to place the sub in order for them to be "Time Aligned" (Sorry, Doug Sax; it's just so handy a term!!).
PLUS, what if the sub is down firing? I don't have a clue how to align them in that case.
I can't see how the phase adjustment on the sub will compensate for ANY of this.
I'm glad you think you "urged" the companies you mentioned to steal your ideas for their products, but I assure you SSL knew about Flying Faders, and were in the process of developing Ultimation, WAY before you called.
And Neve knew about Total Recall by SSL, and were working on the VR while you were Emailing them.
The idea of recallable parameters for outboard gear has been around for YEARS, via MIDI. It has just now been possible for someone like AMEK to make it affordable(?), using Digital controlled Analogue circuitry.
Finally, if you have such a large budget to fly all around the World to record this project, may I ask why you are using Event 20/20s?
Nothing against them, but for the price of one First Class ticket to London, you could get ANY powered nearfields you wanted, and a BUNCH of change, and the 20/20s are, shall we say, "budget" monitors.
I would think you'd thumb your nose at anything less than Genelecs.
Please let me know when this album comes out.
I HAVE to hear it. Unless it's Hip Hop.
Then, I don't care, and all this technical talk was a waste of time to find out how to better monitor the distortion, "dirt," and "grittiness" of 12 bit SP-1200 samples.
------------------
Bob.
[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 05-15-2000).]
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#974154 - 05/15/00 03:34 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Someone please ask Rob G. to only use his enter key when he wants to begin a new paragraph. His paragraphs are formatted oddly to say the least.
Rich...
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#974155 - 05/15/00 03:37 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Wow, I just re-read Rob's post. I was not aware that the 9098i was his idea. Impressive.
Now where's Al Gore when I want to talk about updating his internet TCP/IP protocols.
Rich...
[This message has been edited by Richard V. Wielgosz (edited 05-15-2000).]
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#974156 - 05/15/00 07:20 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Rich:
Is THAT what it is with those wierd margins? I thought Rob G. was trying to become e. e. cummings, or something!!
I have a difficult time reading posts unless there is ABSOLUTE margin accuracy!!
By the way, did I ever tell you how I influenced the Edison to invent recording.....
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Bob.
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#974157 - 05/15/00 07:27 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Rob G
Senior Member
Registered: 03/17/00
Posts: 47
Loc: Virginia Beach, VA USA
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Bob:"The Mix Fix",
You seem upset. You we're the one saying I'm
too serious. Sunday was "Mother's Day", and
Mondays are usually slow for me. I don't have to be out of town when my clients are, necessarily. This
is the digital age of cell phones, and Motorolla fax. pagers. I agree
with you about the racks right behind the
engineer. You got the part right about the racks having a minor effect on the sound.
By the way where do you get so much time
being the "poster boy for the working engineer" that you are. I'm sure it's
pretty hard to set up groups, macros,
absolute updates, and answer this post at the
same time, in the middle of a session at that. Anyone who has worked on a 9000J
lately, or Axiom-MT will know exactly what I mean. Just kidding. You're comment about a person being in front of the mains we would'nt allow. Usable, and
accurate are two different things. About
accuracy, and knowing if a monitor is accurate, or not. I reference them to
a pair of B&W 801's. The speakers they
use in mastering houses, and Abbey Road's
Capricorn room. About the Tannoy's that's
your taste. They sound a little dark to us.
Come check out Emerald Studio A in Nashville.
That's accuracy. About the 20/20's and
the subs you must choose your crossover
frequency very carefully. Additionally
regarding the phase, Please check for
George M.'s response to my question on
getting an accurate phase time align
set up. I asked him how to go about that
best. About the equipment manufacturers
it took other people as well as myself to
get them to doit. I agree they knew what
the competition was doing. But you must
understand most manufacturers won't make
a move unless they see a demand for a product
or equipment update. If you contact them enough along with a bunch of other people they'll make some moves. I'm not trying to
take credit to the extent that you seem
to be conveying. Nor am I deserving or
do I want to receive the credit. About the budget. Look
at NS10's. Cheap are'nt they. But they
get used on many large budget projects.
We just like em(the 20/20bas's). Somebody won a Grammy Award for "Best Sounding Album" using them. About the credits, one of my artists won a talent show recently on "Queen Latifah's" talk show. Her project will probably be out soon at a record store near you courtesy of one of the major record labels. As far as my credits look for
me in the Executive Producer section
of some major label production deal
releases soon. Regarding my other clients
I'll have to ask them if they want their
info. on this post. If they say yes you'll
be the first, or close to the first to know
about it. You should do a project with us.
Then you'll find out how much fun we do have
as long as we're on schedule, and under budget. "The Real World" once again. Dollars, & Cents.
Best Regards,
"Rob G".
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management.
Richard V.W,
Please don't get it twisted. I don't take credit for AMEK implementing the idea about
doing an inline version of the 9098 console.
I was only one of the several engineers that
submitted suggestions for that version
of that product to come on line. I'm not
trying to glorify myself. But some
people seem to have low selfesteem, and have totry to discredit others in order to make
themselves feel accepted, or get respected. Or they do like the media regularly does, they take one phrase,
and blow it all out of context. Read the posts. You'll see what I mean.
Posts like this make you want to go
feed yourself to some pirana's or sharks in your past time.
On that note I'll catch you all maybe next
week on my light day=Monday!
Sincerely With Best Regards To All Of You
Who Are Taking Note,
"Rob G".
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management.
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#974158 - 05/15/00 09:50 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ORIGINAL QUOTE:
About
accuracy, and knowing if a monitor is accurate, or not. I reference them to
a pair of B&W 801's. The speakers they
use in mastering houses, and Abbey Road's
Capricorn room. "Rob G".
Artist/Producer/Engineer Management.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Then use the B&W 801s, or work at Emerald, and your problem is solved!!
I'm not upset, I work at home now, in my underwear, so I chill a lot.
I don't use groups, either, unless I'm submixing. Why go through another op-amp?
Besides, that other stuff, Absolute Updates, Programming Macros, Disc Housekeeping, etc. (Boy you HAVE worked on an SSL; Congratulations!!) is assistant's work. Didn't you "Big Time" guys learn that yet?
So, every once in a while, I take a listening break, and see what's on these boards.
20 years of going into NYC was bad enough.
Keep making that cash. After all, isn't that what the Music Business is REALLY about?
------------------
Bob.
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#974159 - 05/16/00 05:58 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Mark Lemaire
Gold Member
Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 930
Loc: Emeryville, CA USA
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Hey, this is a fun thread, but could you avoid dittoing it from Ed's to George's to Roger's boards? Thanks.
ML
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#974160 - 05/16/00 02:06 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Mark:
Glad you're enjoying the thread.
I was asked questions on two boards, so I replied on two boards.
Any more rules you'd like to set for us to follow?
------------------
Bob.
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#974161 - 05/16/00 02:53 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Kris
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/22/00
Posts: 1531
Loc: Tallahassee, Florida
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How bout "BE NICE" ?
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#974162 - 05/16/00 03:15 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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By saying you reference things to B&W 801's, does that mean you've been in the same room with both 20/20's and 801's? If that's the case, just use the 801's, like Bob said.
Rich...
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#974163 - 05/16/00 05:42 PM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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Uh Clem
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/13/00
Posts: 3442
Loc: Atlanta, GA USA
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I agree with Kris, cut Rob G some slack. He may be over analyzing this - or not. GM didn't blow him off, so that must say it is worth thinking about.
Although, I was not aware that the 20/20s were considered great monitors. My experience with subs is a that a budget sub is less useful than none at all. Am I wrong? Would more accurate monitors be a better place to start and then consider placement options? Budget permitting of course - but what they are undertaking didn't sound low-budget.
[This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 05-16-2000).]
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#974164 - 05/17/00 02:33 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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THE MIX FIX
Platinum Member
Registered: 03/01/00
Posts: 1552
Loc: NYC Area
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Okay Kris and Stevepow: (and Mark).
Let's see.
1. Stick EXACTLY to the topic.
2. Don't use any humor or sarcasm.
3. No posting the same thing on two boards.
4. Use "Netiquette", something ONLY a real computer nerd would say.
5. Don't forget to show your papers and salute the Furer.
Have I got them all right?
------------------
Bob.
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#974165 - 05/17/00 03:30 AM
Re: Large Format Console Mini Monitor Placement.
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alphajerk
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/06/00
Posts: 7950
Loc: asheville nc usa
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the 801's sound choked to me. unless you got a HUGE room. the 802's sound so much smoother.
sounds like he's working on hiphop. but one thing... you said (i think) that you were dumping the program to two tracks and travelling around to add vox. wouldnt that be like 5 tracks worth? why would you need to move all around the board? or are you adding other material besides the vox. and what if it was cool but conflicting with something that might be embedded with the stereo pair? why dont you just lock your mpc to smpte?
just turn up the sub if youre not detecting the information. get the studio bangin. mix it as you go and tweak it. then dump all that and listen. to get some final consistancy, mix all in the same room. pick a room you all agree on. smoke down and listen to some other stuff you like in it for a while. then do your thing.
put it this way... if you like the monitors so much and you are plenty familiar with how you recognize them to sound. then you should know listening to whatever placement you have in whatever room you might be in (cause they are all going to sound as different as the monitor choice). keep moving them around each room till they sound like what you remember them to sound like.
personally i KNOW what my monitors sound like and where ever i go, i play something i know in detail. brain adjusts, unfortunately it doesnt have a program reset, if only you had called GOD before i was born.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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