#974107 - 05/18/00 08:52 PM
old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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Paging thru an old Rolling Stone from the 70's, I read a Teac ad that proudly stated their new recorder could perform both "Sound on Sound" and "Sound with Sound." I vaguely remember these terms having something to do with the ability to overdub while listening to the previously recorded tracks. (Selsync in Ampex terminology). Can you explain what these two terms meant and what the difference between them was?
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#974108 - 05/18/00 10:59 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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THE MIX FIX
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Noise:
Sometimes it's good to be old. 
"Sound On Sound" let you playback track one, and mix that back onto itself for a echo, feedback, slap delay-type thing because the machine had three heads. It just did it internally, without the need of a patchbay
You MIGHT have been able to add another signal when you did this as well, and it MIGHT have also let you mix track one to track two, along with new material, but I'm not exactly sure of this. 
Sometimes being old is NOT too good. 
"Sound With Sound", was simply sync, eventually call "Simlu-Sync" by TEAC, and originally called "Sel-Sync" by Ampex.
Hope that sort of clears things up.
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Bob.
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#974109 - 05/19/00 02:26 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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As demonstrated here, having relics around is certainly a good thing.
Rich...
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#974110 - 05/19/00 03:05 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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alphajerk
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bob,
thats why i like you, there's order to your madness.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974111 - 05/19/00 04:58 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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Bill certainly has a lot of order, except he's usually ordering pizzas.
Rich...
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#974112 - 05/19/00 05:03 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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Thanks for the responses. So let me make sure that I've got this straight. "Sound with sound" is plain old "sel-sync". So far so good. The record head is used as a play head to monitor some channels while you record on others. Understood.
But this "Sound on Sound" - well, I just don't get it. How can you use the record head as a playback device and a record device on the same channel at the same time?
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#974113 - 05/19/00 10:51 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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THE MIX FIX
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Rich and Alpha:
You can order the Relic Pizzas for me in my madness.
Alpha, you LIKE me?
Noise:
Yup, you got the "Sound With Sound " correctly.
But, as all machines that are (were) used to do tape-slap/delay, the signal is PLAYED BACK from the PLAY head, and THEN fed to the RECORD (SYNC) head, causing the signal to feedback with delay as you increase the amount of playback you feed to the record head.
Obviously, with that old, ancient, Analogue technology, the same track couldn't play from the record head, and be recorded by it (even while in sync mode) at the same time.
Again, I'm not sure if you could mix another signal with it while performing the "Sound On Sound" function, or not.
We just didn't have any buffer memory or anything like that until we fought the "War" in Viet Nam, and we got Men on the Moon using two Commodore 64s!! (or the equivalent).
Anyway, I hope that clears it up a bit.
Got to go change my Depends, now.
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Bob.
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#974114 - 05/19/00 03:16 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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Actually the guidance computers on the apollo spacecraft (each craft had one, the LEM and the CM) were far LESS powerful than the Commodore 64.
A lot of the computing for the Apollo missions was done on the ground at the RTC using IBM System 360's.
Rich...
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#974115 - 05/19/00 03:57 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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Thanks again for the responses. So, as Mix described it, "Sound On Sound" is simply slap-back delay? (feedback loop delay)
Sorry if I'm a little slow. Reading 30 year old magazines can bring back some things better left forgotten.
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#974116 - 05/19/00 04:33 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Oli P
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Here in Europe the Tandberg 1/4" machines had the sound on sound function.
On them it meant that you could play and record on the same track.....recording without erasing.
It was in sync, so it actually worked. But after a few overdubs your original sounded pretty distant
Many of the tape delay machines had the same feature. You could switch between echo/record modes.....my first encounter with overdubbing!
Mix: Earth--->Moon ...get me there!
How hard can it be? 4 bits max
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#974117 - 05/19/00 08:11 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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alphajerk
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not in that way mix. keep your pants on.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#974118 - 05/19/00 09:19 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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THE MIX FIX
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Noise:
As far as my memory serves me, yup, that's what "Sound On Sound" was supposed to do.
Now, if someone out there has and old TEAC, and the manual says someting else, don't shoot me. It's all in a distant, Smokey fog!!
BUT, I believe that information is correct.
And Alpha:
I thought you were going to go down on your knees, as usual, instead!!
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Bob.
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#974119 - 05/19/00 09:23 PM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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THE MIX FIX
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Rich:
Jeez!!
I was just using a stupid example about the Spaceshot Computers!! 
I didn't mean to get brand specific on you!!
I know Commodore wasn't even around at that time.
What are you, a computer geek or something?!
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Bob.
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#974120 - 05/20/00 02:44 AM
Re: old terms not often heard anymore
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Anonymous
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[ Bill Wrote: ]
[[ Rich: Jeez!! I was just using a stupid example about the Spaceshot Computers!!
I didn't mean to get brand specific on you!!
I know Commodore wasn't even around at that time. What are you, a computer geek or something?! ]]
Umm, yeah.
If you're at all interested, here's a little blurb on the Apollo Guidance Computer:
http://www.apollosaturn.com/gnc.htm
Rich...
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