#968424 - 05/18/00 11:38 PM
managers
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scott@gravelvoice.com
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Loc: ,WA,UNITED STATES
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At what point should an engineer or producer look for a manager? I'm thinking that you need a manager to solicit the bigger gigs?
scott colburn http://www.gravelvoice.com
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#968425 - 05/19/00 01:04 AM
Re: managers
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Hi Scott: This is a tough one, which I feel a professional engineer/producer manager should answer. I will call my contacts tomorrow and try to get you an experienced, professional response. Thanks for the inquiry.
Chris
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#968426 - 05/19/00 08:36 PM
Re: managers
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Chris Stone
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 894
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Hi Scott
It's Friday afternoon and I am waiting for my producer/engineer contacts to get back to me with a sophicated answer to your question. Sorry for the delay.
Chris
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#968427 - 05/22/00 02:04 PM
Re: managers
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Fletcher
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Registered: 05/22/00
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Loc: Foxboro,MA,UNITED STATES
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Managers...a double edged sword. I've had a couple "managers" in the past, they've been very useful for negotiation and collections.
As for "getting" work, it wasn't really what I was looking for from a 'manager'.
Because I 'gear pimp' as a main revenue stream, which means I don't have to take gigs with music/people I'm not entirely into. The management thing was just a neat luxury.
Manager or no manager, I've found that my phone rings because someone has heard something I've done, and wants to hire me.
Track record, past product, flavor of the month, that's what seems to bring in the work. As for the 'manager'...he was best used to act a "buffer" between the "artist's people" and me.
That way, the "financial" didn't get in the way of the "creative". The way it set up was I didn't really pay much attention to the money thing. As long as I didn't have to fly 'Southwest', and there was beer in the fridge, I was cool.
The financial thing was between the wife and the manager. My only involvement in the process was "yeah, I'll do that gig"...or "No-F-Way (NFW), I'd rather chew glass than have to work on that".
The 'manager dude' didn't bring in an hour's worth of work. My previous work [certainly not my charming personality] did that. The manager was there to field the calls, negotiate the rate, blow off the gig ["sorry, he's booked well into the year 3000 as far as you're concerned"]...he was also rather helpful on the collections end.
A couple of other things I've found...*don't sign anything*. I've always had a 'handshake agreement' with manager types. When there were "points" or "pub" involved, then it was a 'per gig' agreement with me and the manager, no "blanket" management agreement was ever in place. That way I was never 'locked in', and made it in the 'manager's best interest to keep my stuff near the top of the pile.
The agreement just served to insure that the manager got his 'taste' of any subsequent "royalty" payments. The 'gig fee' was always sent directly to the house, and the manager was 'commissioned' from recieved payments.
I've seen some "management agreements" where the 'manager' wants to recieve the payment, then 'peel off' theirs, and send you the rest. This is a recipe for 'financial sodomy'...much better the 'manager' should trust you than the other way around.
I've also found that a good manager is more than worth their fee. My last one had me priced into the 'stratosphere'...then negotiated my rate down. I still ended up doing better [financially] than if I had negotiated the gig myself, not to mention the added bonus of 'no stress' negotiations.
When all that was done, I could walk into the room and not have any kind of negative 'negotiation baggage' interfering with my relationship with the artist. The collections part was equally stress free, as the manager didn't get his until I got mine.
This put it into the 'manager's best interest' to make sure I was paid in a timely manner. I will add that it often took as long as a year to "explain" to the manager that it's OK to 'get in their face' for the money.
I wasn't going to do any more work for anyone that was tardy with the payments anyway, so there was nothing to lose by getting in their face about it. I've seen some guys get strung out by labels for months over the 'net 30'/'net 90' [whatever]...even become 'creditors' when the label has gone 'belly up'.
Much better to have someone to 'break balls' for you...I have damn little patience for people who are overly tardy with my money, better I should yell at my 'manager friend' than deal directly with 'A&R admin'. I only manage to get into more trouble than it's worth when I'm involved directly in the collections process.
Hope this helps...good luck.
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
_________________________
Fletcher Mercenary Audio Roscoe Ambel once said: Pro-Tools is to audio what fluorescent is to light
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#968428 - 05/22/00 09:04 PM
Re: managers
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Chris Stone
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Registered: 05/18/00
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Fletcher:
Thanks very much for your input. It is always a pleasure to get your serious opinions and insight. I hope you stay around to help with this site. I think we can do a lotta good if we all get behind it.
Chris
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#968429 - 05/23/00 05:52 PM
Re: managers
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/11/00
Posts: 2729
Loc: A yank living in London, UK si...
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Like Fletcher, I've had a few too. One I didn't go for, tried to insure my life!
MoFo! Another wanting a gold star from Nirvanas management (who I was doing a job for), waived a royalty on a project that would have earned me a new Mercedes in royalties.. so they had to go!
I find my own talent very early on, that's my buzz and a major part of my 'chops'... I ended up being a blood hound for the rosters senior producers...and that got old quick!
For those 'stuck in the studio' full time, I can understand the need for a manager,
but, I've seen this A LOT!:
Manager - 'youve got to do this band!'
Producer - 'what do they sound like?'
Manager, I dunno, but everyones going for it!
This is the 'music biz circle' with everybodys nose up each others ass.
I prefer to be a Maveric, suits me better..
Jules
Chris, I was over from England in the mid 80's and you were kind enough to show me round the Record Plant as 'a friend of Danny Secunda's' who I had worked with as engineer. Thanks! - J
[This message has been edited by Julian standen (edited 05-23-2000).]
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#968430 - 05/25/00 09:38 PM
Re: managers
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/11/00
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Loc: A yank living in London, UK si...
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So, er, what happened to the producer managers Chris? Me and Fletch scare em off?
Jules
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#968431 - 05/26/00 05:02 PM
Re: managers
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Chris Stone
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Registered: 05/18/00
Posts: 894
Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Jules:
Believe it or not, there are some really good producer/engineer managers out there. Most that I know are in NYC or L.A. But, Fletcher's advice is right on. They are great negotiaters and "watch dogs", however you will still be primarily responsible for getting your own gigs. Another idea is to use several people to find you gigs on a non-exclusive basis. When they find you one, they administer it and you pay their 10% commission when you get paid.
Chris
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#968432 - 05/26/00 11:21 PM
Re: managers
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Pro Jules
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/11/00
Posts: 2729
Loc: A yank living in London, UK si...
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Das coo dude, zz-jus the talent I dig up is pre A&R and don't suit everybody to know about till I want em too. I prefer to beat the drum than follow it's rhythem. Nomesayn?
Jules
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