#966838 - 07/13/01 10:46 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Curve Dominant
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 4223
Loc: Philadelphia USA
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As the lone singer in this bunch, I can absolutely promise you that a singer needs live experience, and lots of it, to handle pro-level studio work. I have NEVER seen a singer who didn't have extensive live experience nail tracks in the studio. Recording vocal tracks is hard enough, even if you do have experience. Even if you have to hit the "open-mic" circuit for awhile because you don't have a band, do it. My $0.02US.
E
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#966839 - 07/14/01 12:14 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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chessparov_dup1
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Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 219
Loc: Aliso Viejo,CA,UNITED STATES
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Curve, (if you don't mind me calling you that-I'm a newbie here!)
from your experience, how realistic do you think it is for singers like
myself that would like to participate in "project level" demos, rather
than "pro-level" session work, to get good results from self study and
vocal workshop style experience alone? (Assuming they have decent vocal technique and knowledge of different styles!)That sounds more enjoyable
for me at least.
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#966840 - 07/14/01 01:16 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Bonafide
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Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 246
Loc: Santa Barbara, Ca.
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Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
As the lone singer in this bunch, I can absolutely promise you that a singer needs live experience, and lots of it, to handle pro-level studio work. I have NEVER seen a singer who didn't have extensive live experience nail tracks in the studio. E
Hey Curve,
I am a singer by trade and by profession as well as a songwriter/musician, I totally agree with about live experience as a good foundation. However, Studio vocals are often much more dynamic and need additional rehearsal. I haven't fronted a band in a 1 1/2 years, yet my vocals have only improved. My pitch, timbre, and dynamics have gotten better simply due to the fact that I don't have to sing to be heard OVER a band. I do think it is very possible for a singer to stick to studio work and simply wail. It takes practice to sing in the studio, Not the same practice as singing over a band. The bottom line is, if you want to become a better singer, YOU HAVE TO SING. It doesn't matter where,what or when. If you sing, you will get better.
Cheers.
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#966841 - 07/14/01 01:58 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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ElGenius1
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Registered: 07/06/01
Posts: 189
Loc: Little Bogota, Fla
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Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
Of course you can....it's all about your mind-state.....making your songs sound 'live' are easier to accomplish in front of a live crowd for obvious reasons.....
but the same can be done within the confinements of an isolated studio.....before recording, you should get 'hyped up' for it....if it's an angry songs, remember the things that made you angry in the first place.....and so forth...try to remember the feelings that u felt in life that prompted u to write the song in the first place.........works for me.....
peace
_________________________
"Los niņos escuchan el 'rap'...que les daņa el cerebro"
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#966842 - 07/14/01 03:14 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Curve Dominant
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 10/29/00
Posts: 4223
Loc: Philadelphia USA
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chessparov posted:
Curve, (if you don't mind me calling you that-I'm a newbie here!)
from your experience, how realistic do you think it is for singers like
myself that would like to participate in "project level" demos, rather
than "pro-level" session work, to get good results from self study and
vocal workshop style experience alone? (Assuming they have decent vocal technique and knowledge of different styles!)That sounds more enjoyable
for me at least.
I absolutely did not mean that post of mine to discourage ANYONE from singing at ANY TIME!!! Sing in your project studio, sing in the shower, in the car, to your girl/boyfriend, while walking down the street (I do this all the time and, yes, I don't care if people think I'm manic), sing your life, as Morrisey would say. I was responding to the title of this thread...
Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
...and the answer to that for singers is, "Maybe, but don't count on it." It depends entirely on what your expectations are, which brings me to the following, posted by Bonafide...
I am a singer by trade and by profession as well as a songwriter/musician, I totally agree with about live experience as a good foundation. However, Studio vocals are often much more dynamic and need additional rehearsal. I haven't fronted a band in a 1 1/2 years, yet my vocals have only improved.
...and Bonafide, I know for a fact that what you're telling me is true, because I, too, took a long break from live performances, and my work in the studio since then has vastly improved my skills. BUT...Bonafide...ya know "that thing" that you got now after being a frontman for awhile? I know you know what I'm talkin' bout; it's like riding a bike - you got that foundation now. It's not like the foundation of a house, because for singers it's not definable, but it's there.
Singing in the studio will help you prepare for singing live, of course it will. But singing live, and getting good at it to the point that you OWN that room that you're singing in, will do things for your confidence in the studio that you cannot fathom until you experience it.
Being successful in this racket is all about paying your dues, and having live experience is an essential part of your dues. I won't even qualify this with "IMHO" or "YMMV." It's a fact, man. It all comes down to, "How good do you REALLY want to be?" Do you want to be good enough that your friends will say, "Cool," or do you want to be bangin' it on a global scale? I'll take global, thank you very much. Bear in mind to you newbies who are lurking: I am not "global," not yet anyway, but I'm getting there slowly, and I'm keeping my eye on global, not where I'm at. That's how you get to your desired destination - by keeping your eye on that place, rather than where you're at now.
By the way, chessparov, I noticed you mentioned that you are new here. As it happens, we still need someone to organize the MusicPlayer Web Chess Club. Are you game?
Eric Vincent
Curve Dominant Sound&Vision
Philadelphia USA
curvdominant@earthlink.net
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#966843 - 07/14/01 03:58 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Bonafide
Senior Member
Registered: 06/18/01
Posts: 246
Loc: Santa Barbara, Ca.
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Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
Singing in the studio will help you prepare for singing live, of course it will. But singing live, and getting good at it to the point that you OWN that room that you're singing in, will do things for your confidence in the studio that you cannot fathom until you experience it
Hey Curve,
I understand perfectly what you mean. Though funny thing about live performance is that as a front man, you can OWN that room and still not be very good singer if your showmanship and energy is charismatic and capturing, I have witnessed it time and time again. My point was that, you can't suck on tape cause' tape sucks right back at you. BUT, live performance is a massive chop builder.
It all comes down to, "How good do you REALLY want to be?" Do you want to be good enough that your friends will say, "Cool," or do you want to be bangin' it on a global scale? I'll take global, thank you very much. Bear in mind to you newbies who are lurking: I am not "global," not yet anyway, but I'm getting there slowly, and I'm keeping my eye on global, not where I'm at. That's how you get to your desired destination - by keeping your eye on that place, rather than where you're at now.
Keeping my sights on global as well my man.. Always have. Too many bands have fallen apart, too much things, and crap and band shit, DAMN,..Bands can be the most glorious entity you love to hate. I have been much more productive in advancing my career once I DECIDED to striclty be a solo artist. Have an insane home studio (And I am using it!!).
I would be interested in swapping/hearing a tune, I would like to hear what you are doing, particularly if you are recording/playing all the parts yourself like me in your own studio.
Cheers.
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#966844 - 07/14/01 04:57 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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chessparov_dup1
Senior Member
Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 219
Loc: Aliso Viejo,CA,UNITED STATES
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Thanks Curve for your response. Actually I did understand your original post-I also thought there could be other apspiring singers "lurking" around
with less stage/studio experience than you (like myself) that might wonder
about all this. Regarding "global level", I have been fortunate enough to
hear, in person (meaning not in concert/no mikes) some of the best acapella
singers in the world-very inspiring. Also I was lucky enough to study with
one of the best dramatic baritones in the world, he could make "O Sole Mio"
sound like your really hearing it for the first time! If I can be of any
assistance with a "chess club" here I'd be happy to help. Craig Anderton,
if your reading this-any new word on a Singer's Forum? Love to see one!
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#966845 - 07/14/01 04:59 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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chessparov_dup1
Senior Member
Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 219
Loc: Aliso Viejo,CA,UNITED STATES
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Thanks Curve for your response. Actually I did understand your original post-I also thought there could be other apspiring singers "lurking" around
with less stage/studio experience than you (like myself) that might wonder
about all this. Regarding "global level", I have been fortunate enough to
hear, in person (meaning not in concert/no mikes) some of the best acapella
singers in the world-very inspiring. Also I was lucky enough to study with
one of the best dramatic baritones in the world, he could make "O Sole Mio"
sound like your really hearing it for the first time! If I can be of any
assistance with a "chess club" here I'd be happy to help. Craig Anderton,
if your reading this-any new word on a Singer's Forum? Love to see one!
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#966846 - 07/14/01 05:01 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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chessparov_dup1
Senior Member
Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 219
Loc: Aliso Viejo,CA,UNITED STATES
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Thanks Curve for your response. Actually I did understand your original post-I also thought there could be other apspiring singers "lurking" around
with less stage/studio experience than you (like myself) that might wonder
about all this. Regarding "global level", I have been fortunate enough to
hear, in person (meaning not in concert/no mikes) some of the best acapella
singers in the world-very inspiring. Also I was lucky enough to study with
one of the best dramatic baritones in the world, he could make "O Sole Mio"
sound like your really hearing it for the first time! If I can be of any
assistance with a "chess club" here I'd be happy to help. Craig Anderton,
if your reading this-any new word on a Singer's Forum? Love to see one!
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#966847 - 07/14/01 05:08 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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chessparov_dup1
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Registered: 07/08/01
Posts: 219
Loc: Aliso Viejo,CA,UNITED STATES
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Sorry for the triple post-my computer crashed while I was posting!
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#966848 - 07/14/01 07:52 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Bob Olhsson
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Registered: 05/25/01
Posts: 426
Loc: Nashville,TN, USA
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The biggest single common denominator I've found among successful songwriters, producers, musicians and singers is that they were live performers early in their careers, frequently beginning in high school. In some cases it was sports, radio, DJing or theater as opposed to music but years of experience entertaining a live audience seems to always be a component.
As technology enables almost anybody to create an "ok" recording at home, I expect to see live performance play a far more important role in defining exceptional music than it has over the past 25 years. This is simply because people willingly pay only for music that they consider to be exceptional as opposed to just "ok." We don't need to look any further than our own music buying habits to see the trend, most of our standards have become sky high!
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#966849 - 07/15/01 12:48 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Jon Atack
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Registered: 04/22/00
Posts: 920
Loc: Paris, France
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Bob, I couldn't agree with you more.
I reckon that live performance revenues (and related income streams like internet/TV rights) will play an even more important role for performance-oriented artists (i.e. the biggest, longest-lasting ones) and their careers than in the past.
Unlike recordings, live concert events cannot be pirated or copied. You see folks shilling out $50 to $150 for two tickets to see a concert of an artist...whose CD they may have copied for free.
Jon
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#966850 - 07/15/01 02:52 AM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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Anderton
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Registered: 01/28/00
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Bob, I really hope you're right. Live performance can be so tremendous, far eclipsing anything you can put on a CD or video. I'd love to see more venues open up so it would be easier to find places to hear music.
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#966852 - 07/15/01 04:47 PM
Re: Can You Do Good Recordings If You Don't Play Live?
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John Worthington
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Registered: 11/01/00
Posts: 610
Loc: New Orleans,LA,UNITED STATES
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On my current project, (modern jazz w/ a little funk), the band and I agreed we'd work out all of the material in live shows before taking it to the studio. They've really been making an effort to get things together and I've attended all most all of the shows to guage the audience reaction. We've ended up changing a couple of the tunes around as a result of the feedback - all for the better.
It's been the easiest recording project of my life. Few if any overdubs, no editing. There is no substitute for playing live and rehearsing.
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