#966494 - 07/09/01 05:37 PM
The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
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There has been a lot of talk in this forum about dissatisfaction with today's "manufactured" music. I've been thinking about this a lot, because I think movies have the same problem: it's possible to produce the "look and feel" of an artform without actually creating art.
Movies have in large part become excuses for spectacular visuals -- and they are spectacular -- but few seem to have memorable stories that stray beyond the usual formulas. Of course there are exceptions, but very few. Still, if you put a lot of cool pictures up on a screen for an hour or two, have reasonable acting, and elicit a few "Wow" comments, you've made a movie.
Music is the same way. I heard N'Sync's "Pop" the other day and I thought it was aurally spectacular, like the special FX in a film. The production was superb, the hard disk tricks awe-inspiring. As to what the tune was about, well...uh...hmmm...I'm not sure, really. In fact, all I remember about the tune was that it sounded great.
I think as humans, we desperately want to connect. It's become harder to do that in today's world. We want to connect with music, to have it sing to us about something that's meaningful in our lives. I think that's the root cause of dissastisfaction with today's pop music: the issue is NOT so much that it's manufactured according to what seems to be a set of "pop hit" specs, but that it doesn't cause us to react emotionally. I think if we heard a pop that spoke to the human condition in an eloquent way, we wouldn't care if it was done by 16-year-olds with nice hair who answered an ad in the paper to form a group.
I think what excites us about MP3, and things like the collaboration project in Dave Bryce's forum, is that we can hear people who are passionate about what they do...so passionate, in fact, that even if they don't have a lot of bucks, or have to take care of a family most of the day, or don't get any recognition, or whatever, they still find the time to record something. Now, a lot of "homegrown" music suffers from the same problem as the major labels: you can put together notes, some decent sounds, follow a few rules, and end up with something that has the "look and feel" of music...but will it resonate with people? That's the real issue here. You can fake great sounds, but you can't fake resonance.
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#966495 - 07/09/01 06:57 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Gus Lozada
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Craig, what if POP is really our style?
Am I a criminal by using "the formula" in something I really like?
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I know you and I agree regarding the concept about the excellent productions surrounding those "artists" and I now you are talking exclusively about getting the sound and not getting the real response from the audiences.
However I'd say the same not only about "POP" bands, but even from Ligh Jazz, Rock, "punk" and any other music style.
I remember the old 80's when long hair, make up and tons of hair spray were the elements to get a Rock&Roll band... and many of them suceeded.
Now, it is the "Boys Group" thing.
It'll never end, I guess...
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W o M
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#966496 - 07/09/01 07:14 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Dylan
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I remember the old 80's when long hair, make up and tons of hair spray were the elements to get a Rock&Roll band... and many of them suceeded.
Now, it is the "Boys Group" thing.[/B]
But at least with the hair bands we knew that the guys in the band were the ones *actually* performing the music. It's considered okay for these boy bands to lip sync since they are expected to put their energy into dancing and looking good for all of the 13-year old girls. But, I honestly don't know if any of these guys can really sing, or if they can, if they aren't backed by autotune and a ton of editing. But that's besides the point of this thread... In today's pop music, it's all about how you look, not how you sound. Why do you think that Jennifer Lopez has sold as many CD's as she has? It's certainly not for the music. I think that the average, non-musicians standards have been set so low by the record companies that we just accept these production bands as "real music", but it's not. These production bands serve their purpose, don't get me wrong. Traditionally, if it weren't for the mega artist making as much money as they do, then most big labels wouldn't take the financial risk for a smaller group with more artistic talent. But that's not happening anymore from what I'm seeing. The big labels are now just a bunch of pimps looking to whore out their garbage to anyone who's willing to take the bait. You think that Tom Petty or Cyndi Lauper would make it if they had started their careers today? I mean sure there great musicians and can write, but the kiddies might not like the eye candy. Maybe they would make it, but it would take them a lot longer and they would probably not achieve the level of success that they have today.
-Dylan
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#966497 - 07/09/01 07:25 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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-
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Originally posted by Anderton:
I think as humans, we desperately want to connect. It's become harder to do that in today's world. We want to connect with music, to have it sing to us about something that's meaningful in our lives. I think that's the root cause of dissastisfaction with today's pop music: the issue is NOT so much that it's manufactured according to what seems to be a set of "pop hit" specs, but that it doesn't cause us to react emotionally.
That's it in a nutshell.
A few things to add...
As an avid listener, I'd venture to say that appreciating other people's work is a totally selfish experience. Why? I want to hear music which means something to me. I want to hear something which says something about my life, even if it's in a really oblique way.
If the lyrics are nothing but one cliche after another, the melody hovers around only three or four notes, and the vocals are AutoTuned to death, then that song doesn't really have much to say to me. Although I can appreciate a technically well-done production, productions don't move me -- songs and performances do.
Not all music listeners feel a need to listen to new music which says something to them or about them, though. If you're indifferent to having some sort of personal connection to the music, you're more likely to enjoy whatever the marketing wizards are telling you to like... 
This message has been edited by popmusic on 07-09-2001 at 04:54 PM
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#966498 - 07/09/01 08:04 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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ricknbokker
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Craig, you mentioned passion in your post.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of what I would consider very bad 'music' out there that is being performed and written by some very passionate people.
Hell, you can be sure that Hitler and Pol Pot were VERY passionate about their 'work'.
Passion can be a great or terrible thing...
Resonance?? Same problem, I suppose...
For me, it's all about the mood...the moment...timing...hell, I don't know.
But I know what I like!
Steve
(w/a headache)
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#966499 - 07/09/01 08:15 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
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<
Passion can be a great or terrible thing...>>
Well, the world would probably be a better place if Hitlet had played out his passions in a punk band instead of as the leader of post-WWI Germany...I'm sure he would have made bad music, but hey, better that than his attempts to take over the world.
The point is NOT whether any particular music is good or bad, but whether it's passionate. The problem I have is not with bad music that's passionate, it's with any kind of music that doesn't have passion, but is merely designed to put together sounds in a way that produces instant gratification at the expense of trying to forge some level of communication. You could say the Damned or the Sex Pistols put together bad music, but it jumped out of your speakers and forced you to listen.
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#966501 - 07/09/01 09:53 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Steve LeBlanc
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I'd basically echo what Craig's already said here.
Dylan said:
But at least with the hair bands we knew that the guys in the band were the ones *actually* performing the music.
Well did we though? A lot of those guys didn't play very well...definitly not well enough to be on the album. Lot's of great guitar players and drummers did the session work for Hair bands of the 80s.
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#966502 - 07/09/01 10:01 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Tedster
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Hmmm...well, is "mindless pop" really a new thing? Listen to your oldies station...think about what was on the charts in the 60s and 70s. Not to mention the 30s, 40s, and 50s... Remember The Poppy Family? Not to pick on them, because they're just one of a billion bands that had a "hit" with tunes I personally thought were rather, well, stupid. Sure you remember The Poppy Family. How about an obscure Canadian band called "A Foot in Coldwater"? Probably not. Actually, I think that band had one of the best rock/pop singles to come out on AM radio in the early 70s ("Make Me Do Anything You Want")...but, it didn't get a lot of airplay, because the stations were too busy playing Seasons in the Sun...Puppy Love...Afternoon Delight...and myriad other nauseating songs. Stupid sells. Always has. And it's always boiled down to being "stupid" and selling records (which apparently DOES connect or reverberate or whatever with a lot of people) or making good music and remaining obscure.
Once in a great while, popularity and great music go hand in hand (The Beatles instantly come to mind) but it's a rare occasion.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#966503 - 07/09/01 11:22 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Rod S
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The problem is that people connect to different music in different ways. I've heard music that I thought was utter crap that for some people it was life changing. I think there's some patterns, but there's no set rules. I had fun with the 'what songs makes you want to puke' in the guitar forum, since a lot of that stuff I really liked.
Also, just because someone makes music with passion doesn't mean people will see that and connect to it.
When Dave's CD comes out, there's some stuff I'll listen to a lot, and there's some stuff I probably won't listen to at all. Yet I know all that music means a lot to the people who composed it, and I have the deepest respect for them. Although, I have to admit a lot of the stuff surprised me. I saw myself digging some music that has elements that normally would have made me not even listen to the tune.
And the note about 'homegrown' music suffering from the same problems is true. A lot of people are putting together some loops in acid in five minutes and consider it done as far as a musical compositioning. Canned music exists as much in mainstream as in the indie stuff.
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#966504 - 07/10/01 01:16 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
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I don't think I explained myself too well in the original post...I'm feeling a little more articulate now .
I'm not trying to do another "bash pop music" thread or "whatever you like to listen to is fine." We've been over that territory. And I understand that different people react to music differently, and there isn't any "universal" type of musical communication.
And yes, there have certainly been vapid musical times before. I wouldn't say the 40s, though; some big band stuff was pretty radical. But the 50s fit the bill. They were years of emotional repression, of people in shell-shock after a world war, a depression, another world war, the Korean war, and the ongoing cold war. I don't think people really wanted to connect with their emotions, it took a lot of effort just to retain some degree of optimism. I think that's why Eisenhower got elected; he was easygoing, a war hero (a certain feeling of safety there), and was known as much for wanting to play golf as be president.
So why are people shying away from emotional connection now? And I really think that is happening -- not everyone, of course, but enough to be a trend. I think it has to do with the fact that society has undergone a very deep transformation and people face a great deal of uncertainty. The family structure as we know it has crumbled in the past 30 years, extended families are rare due to greater mobility, and deep down, I think people realize that our current prosperity has a lot to do with smoke and mirrors. Older industries are dying, jobs are being shipped offshore, and the digital revolution is upsetting everything from copyright laws to the ability of dictatorships to control their population. Then again there aren't any major wars, the world has become one big marketplace -- better than a bunch of fiefdoms, in my book -- crime is down, and there was a budget surplus there for a while. There are some wild cards, like the proliferation of drugs like Prozac and Zoloft, which recall the "a gram is better than a damn" slogan of [/i]Brave New World.[/i] It's wild out there.
None of this is as dramatic as a world war or a depression, of course, but I think people are disoriented because the rate of change is dizzying. Challenging art is not what's wanted right now, nor perhaps should it be. Maybe the world just needs to see some pretty pictures and hear nice songs by good-looking people for a while...perhaps escapism has some merit.
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#966505 - 07/10/01 02:18 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Chip McDonald
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It's all so really pointless to discuss, isn't it really?
What's disturbing about it is that it's something that is being created to be consumed: there is a large market of consumers apparently willing to pay for it.
That's a fundamental concept:
Do you create music and hope people like it - or do you create music specifically for a certain group of people to like?
Big difference. Big philosophical difference. Which causes problems.
For instance....
I like blues based music. I happen to be working on a "blues based" project. Now, I'm not really sure who exactly is going to like what I'm doing.... I *do* know I could take a lot of different turns and make it more targeted to the "SRV/Clapton/rehash blues" market - EASILY. My conscience won't let me do that.
What gets me is this:
I'm essentially broke, with no future. I *know* I could craft some Austin-sounding blues tunes and put that over the top with emulated SRV-like playing. A lot of people seem to be doing that successfully. It'd be easy to do, I'd know how to act, what to say, what rig to play and what sounds to get, the whole nine yards. It'd be EASY. I'd have places to play since I'd more easily fit a category. I could probably make it end up taking me "somewhere".
I can't bring myself to do it. I think "if I can just get the right singer for this this can work - the same antecedents are there, just in different ratios and different ways". I want to do something *different* that's still "good", not just different for the sake of it.
So the question is: is this a mistake? This is apparently antiquated thinking.....
------------------
New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#966506 - 07/10/01 02:19 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Lee Flier
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Craig,
I wanted to reply to your first post in this thread but have frankly been too stunned to do so. Your second one floors me even more. I say that because it echoes so much of what's been on my own mind for the past couple of years. It IS true - people don't seem to want emotional connection, nor really deep connection with other people. And I do think a lot of the reasons you mention are true as well - especially the disorientation. We're all like a bunch of deer in the headlights. Everybody's afraid to get too attached or committed to anything or anyone, for fear it could all get turned upside down tomorrow.
IMO this is an extremely unnatural state of being for us humans, who are tribal creatures by birthright. And I don't agree that escapism is the answer. The kind of escapism I'm seeing and hearing now in popular culture (which of course is a reflection of the general mood of society) just feels like annihilation. It leaves me with this empty, cold feeling devoid of any real human quality, and I don't want anything to do with it. My own reaction to all this disorientation (as if everyone who knows me doesn't know by now) has been not to try to escape, but to stand up and demand our humanity, to speak up for reality. I don't want a reality remade in some faceless corporate image. I want the real world of flesh and blood where we belong. Yeah, flesh and blood sometimes hurts, and it's sometimes messy. But isn't real, lasting connection worth it? Only if you have some idea of what that means. And unfortunately, far too few people do.
I'm happy to say though, that at least around here, that trend seems to be passing, and people seem to be wanting to reach out again, at least the crowd I hang with. It may not be a very big crowd but it's a deep and substantial one, a nucleus of maybe 20 musicians in various bands who really, really are committed not only to connecting with their own emotions but with each other. There is a shitload of talent, passion and commitment in this little group, and I feel totally honored and flabbergasted to be a part of it. How this tiny stronghold of truly special people has come together in the middle of all this crap, just floors me, and I never fail to tell them all as often as possible how much they are appreciated and just HOW extraordinary they are. Luckily, I think most of them know, and won't let it just slip away without understanding what they've got and working to keep it alive.
And that's what it takes to survive in the modern world, I think. Decide what you want and accept no substitutes. So much rapid change and so much bullshit is being thrown at you from outside sources who don't give a crap about you, but that doesn't mean you have to accept it internally. You can still pick something to stand for and you can still choose people to commit to and not be afraid to shower them with love (or do it even if you're afraid). Never mind who will think it's uncool or less than perfect or not flashy enough. It's real. That's the whole point.
So that's what my life is about these days, and that's what I'm writing about, too. And it sure feels a lot better than "the look and feel".
So there!
--Lee
This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 07-09-2001 at 11:24 PM
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#966507 - 07/10/01 02:27 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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-
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Originally posted by Anderton:
So why are people shying away from emotional connection now? And I really think that is happening -- not everyone, of course, but enough to be a trend.
Could it be because many audience members haven't been exposed to art which makes them have an emotional connection? If you don't know what you're missing, you'll never notice it's gone.
As far as music goes, we could take an easy scapegoat and say that music education needs to play a stronger role in our schools... But I think the issue is bigger than that. It probably has more to do entertainment companies often treating art as a total commodity from top to bottom.
Not that things like popular music and movies didn't always have commercial elements (they're running a business, and releasing movies and music are expensive, so the money's usually gotta come from somewhere other than just ticket/CD sales), but things seem to be pushed further in that direction in the last few years... Almost to the point where they're kinda hitting us over the head with how obvious it is.
For example, the Josie and the Pussycats trailer -- not the movie, just the trailer -- had at least 59 shots of product placement. (Check out all the product placement here .) I didn't see the movie, but, judging by the trailer, it seems the movie and the music were secondary to all the advertising they wanted to get across to the audience.
This message has been edited by popmusic on 07-10-2001 at 09:07 AM
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#966508 - 07/10/01 03:49 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Steve LeBlanc
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Craig, the question is too broad to address properly IMO...I mean it's like asking why paper money isn't worth anything and how it got that way...too big a story to cover.
So what do I say? "I believe the children are our future, teach them young and let them lead the way....." and so on...
My music is about as in your face crazy stuff as it gets...KIDS like it...I have yet to find a kid under 15 years old that doesn't get totally excited and enjoy listening to emotionally charged and/or complex music.
Where are these kids going to hear really emotionally connected music though? To me that's an important question today. Live music festivals while still prominent in some areas seem to be less common than they used to be. TV is a wasteland when it comes to music (well just about anything actually)...Radio is worse than TV...whose fault is it? Well everyone to some extent...parents have to take responsibility for what tomorrow will be, things are pretty much screwed right now...I don't think there's much hope for our generations but there's always hope for the future.
The way I see it, I've got about 40-50 years to make the world a better place for future generations...where do I start? With ME.
I've had a few beers and I'm in a hurry so I hope the above is at least 80% coherent...just SOME of my thoughts on the subject...hope I didn't wander too much.
Good night y'all.
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#966509 - 07/10/01 04:25 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Tedster
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Sorry, only gotten as far as Lee's post...but...
Re: the emotional connection thing...
Could it be that music to most is no more than wallpaper? Background?
When I used to listen to music as a kid, I'd go into my room, crank up the stereo, and "experience" the music. Let it carry me away. God help the poor soul that would interrupt for any reason, especially the mundane.
Anyone read last Sunday's "Funky Winkerbean"? The guy is sitting on the roof, pondering (I don't know the characters' names in that strip) and his wife comes up and asks if she can join him. He says "The roof is for thinking"...and she sits down next to him. She sits there for a moment, and says "I was thinking we should wallpaper the bathroom" and he cuts her dead off and says..."The roof is only for 'long thoughts'". Yep. Nothing about papering the freaking bathroom. Long thoughts. That's what I get from the music I like to listen to. Not that there's anything wrong with good ol' rock and roll. But I think most folks are different. The general public wants wallpaper. Nothing that demands "long thoughts".
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#966510 - 07/10/01 04:39 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
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Which brings up another point - why are people so afraid of silence? How many times have you been to someone's house and the TV is on the background, but no one's watching. It almost seem like media, particularly television, have become "the new hearth." It reminds us there are people out there, and while it does provide some type of connection, it's an extremely shallow one.
Well, almost two in the morning, time to go to bed...after spending the last several hours working, coming to SSS is kind of like hanging out at a cafe with some pals, before falling into a cab and going home .
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#966511 - 07/10/01 05:24 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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d gauss
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<>
aw jeez i wish i was still that believing in things. even before hair bands, things weren't as they seem....record label plus producer often = ghost musicians. aerosmith "get your wings" features steve hunter and dick wagner instead of joe perry on guitar on "train kept a rollin'"... alice cooper had both the afore mentioned guitar players plus jack bruce and rick derringer... kiss had tons of different players doing drums, guitars, etc.... hell, stevie ray vaughan's live album, thin lizzy's live album, david bowie's live "stage" album... all these have maybe live clapping on them and that's about it.... even the stones' "get yer ya ya's" out has overdubbed vocals on it... yikes, and people were upset with millie vanilli...
-d. gauss
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#966512 - 07/10/01 06:46 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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alphajerk
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i sit in silence right now. aside from the drone of the computer fans and the buzzing of electricity through the house. when i drive i listen to music. i watch tv in the evening. i sit on my back deck at night and listen to the silence... but that can get kinda creepy this far back in the woods, especially when you hear a stick nearby snap 
wasnt a lot of hitlers hatred towards the jews from being denied entrance to some art school? passion, makes you a great artist or the 2nd anti-christ. too bad there wasnt prozac back then... or was there? i think lithium would have been better. he was one sick twisted fuck.
as for the bubblegum pop music. i hear through the grapevine that their concert tickets sales are declining. the trend is starting to shift again [maybe due to the worsening economy] kinda funny how when the economy does well, people could care less about what they listen to but in shitty times, music starts to matter with some sort of decency to it.
i mean look at the 80's pre-black monday. total shit, i mean as bad as it is now. then from 87-93 the music started to really kick for a while, i couldnt stop finding bands i liked, great concerts happened. music for a short while was good.
should we look at the stock market as indicators as to what kind of music people consume? i bet you would find they run hand in hand.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#966513 - 07/10/01 11:20 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Tusker
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Craig's post about emotional connections got me thinking. I too have tended to connect music with the economy.
The 50's was when America dominated the world economy. Post war the other countries were beaten up and American businesses grew to fill the void. I have reasoned that we have such bad music today because the economy has been doing pretty well. Music doesn't need to be our escape, or a salve for the soul today.
Of course music can be more than an escape. During the 60's, music did more than connect us with our emotions. Trouble was identified and solutions were sung, so that people could rally round.
I think that a period of downturn, a crisis or a war, will do a lot for music. Musicians with a message (love, family, freedom, god, the environment, whatever) will do a lot for music.
There is something about comfort that deadens us, I think.
Regards,
Jerry
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http://www.tuskerfort.com
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#966514 - 07/10/01 06:29 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Master Zap
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Do you create music and hope people like it - or do you create music specifically for a certain group of people to like?
Why not a little of both?
I like blues based music. I happen to be working on a "blues based" project. Now, I'm not really sure who exactly is going to like what I'm doing.... I *do* know I could take a lot of different turns and make it more targeted to the "SRV/Clapton/rehash blues" market - EASILY. My conscience won't let me do that.
If you want to be like that - fine.
But just make sure that if there is a thing that would fit under that SRV/clapton/rehash blues "cliche" that would FIT in the music you are using that you DO USE IT.
The most disservice you can do to your music is to think "oh shit this is a xyz cliche I almost started to play here and we can't have that". THAT IS WROOONG! If it fits - IGNORE if it's a cliche or not, just bloody USE IT!!
It's so easy to get stuck in the "art for arts sake" swamp, and sit making unlistenable crap just because it should be "art". Beware of that!!
/Z
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#966515 - 07/10/01 07:07 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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DC
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/17/01
Posts: 2706
Loc: here to eternity...
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We recently got a dvd and so I'm up on the new films released in that format (so I'm three months behind the theaters?). God what a load of drivel. It's so depressing to say that the only thing that hasn't sucked is Traffic and Billy Elliot. I was really looking forward to 'Unbreakable' and what a let down. We had nothing new to watch recently and pulled out 'Fried Green Tomatoes.' I liked those people and cared about what happened to them, something I can only rarely say about the new stuff.
Where have all the writers gone?!
I like special effects as much as anyone, on screen or in audio production but what happened to all the content providers? Is it because one guy might have a brilliant idea but then it's ruined by committee? How can kids stomach the crap on the radio and in theaters?
I think that the industry has gone the route of Nashville in that instead of singer/songwriters, we have a slew of specialists. Hire individuals for every aspect of a recording or film. That's were New Kids et all seem to come from, a panel of hitmakers hire and control every aspect of young (ahem) talent. I mean factory farming has hit all industries.
And that's what leaves me cold with most of today's entertainment. I don't care about the people, the product doesn't make me think or laugh or give me any emotion whatsoever. I can't go into a record store and see a bazillion titles like I once could, just the generic top 40 or so. Our options have been reduced in the main stream and most of it's crap. Kinda like how all the interesting specialty retail shops have dissappeared, but WE GOT WALL MART. About ten companys own everything in USA and they're trying to take away our souls.
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#966516 - 07/10/01 07:13 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Moronix
Senior Member
Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 298
Loc: Sylmar, CA. the land of olives...
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It’s funny I read Alphajerk's statement that 1987-1993 was a great time for music for him. It was EXACTLY the opposite for me. That time was so barren I could not believe it. Techno-Rave was being borne at that time and that was the ONLY thing that sounded new or interesting to me.
My whole point here is that music worth/value is in the eye of the beholder and my 7-year-old daughter really likes the girl bands like Dream. I and the rest of you old farts can't see what the youngsters see in the pop music of today, and if we really did, the youngsters would find something that we did not understand. I see all of the boy-teen idols of today and they all look like spiked hair dolts to me.
As far as this detached/non-communication issue, my dad thought that the vast majority of the new-wave stuff I listened to was musically valueless. Is that not the nature of "pop" as seen by a classically trained musician?
Remember that Jazz was "pop" at one time.
And as for uncertainty during the time I was a teen I thought that the Regan arms build-up was going to cause a WWIII nuclear winter scenario. How’s that for uncertainty!
Round and round we go.
It's better than being board though.
Robert Morin
Alesis
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#966517 - 07/10/01 09:29 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
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Originally posted by Anderton:
Which brings up another point - why are people so afraid of silence? How many times have you been to someone's house and the TV is on the background, but no one's watching. It almost seem like media, particularly television, have become "the new hearth." It reminds us there are people out there, and while it does provide some type of connection, it's an extremely shallow one.
Well, let's see if I can remember my response to this..."YOU DID NOT FILL OUT ALL THE REQUIRED FORM FIELDS...LOSER!!!"
AAAAA-FREAKIN' MEN!!!
You've got it, Craig. Exactly. We live in an older home, not quite Victorian, but around 1910 vintage, and have tried to furnish at least the major portion of it that way. Consequently, we agreed that there would be NO TV in the living room. We use our living room for entertaining. I've gotten some really nice comments from visitors regarding that as well..."Wow, no TV in the living room, COOL!"
Yep. The living room is for conversation. Not being bombarded by background crap.
Now, we do have a den. There's a TV in there. If someone comes over to watch a movie or something, we go in there. Just the opposite rule applies in there. NO TALKING. Shut up and watch the movie (Unless it's like a ball game or that type of show which fosters discussion).
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#966518 - 07/10/01 09:33 PM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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alphajerk
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/06/00
Posts: 7950
Loc: asheville nc usa
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87-93: beastie boys, butthole surfers, jesus lizard, sonic youth, dinosaur jr., early lemonheads [they sucked after 90's started], nirvana, early smashing pumkins, JANES ADDICTION, GnR's appetite for destruction album [the rest sucked], fishbone, first NIN [the rest sucked], soundgarden, WEEN!!!, early Clutch [who continue to rock all the way through totally unnoticed], bad brains, fugazi, flaming lips, first mr bungle [fucking incredible album], beck towards the end of it... thats just off the top of my head. there were MANY more...
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#966519 - 07/11/01 03:19 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Chip McDonald
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 4792
Loc: Augusta, Ga. USA
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Originally posted by Anderton:
Which brings up another point - why are people so afraid of silence? How many times have you been to someone's house and the TV is on the background, but no one's watching.
Well, almost two in the morning, time to go to bed...after spending the last several hours working, coming to SSS is kind of like hanging out at a cafe with some pals, before falling into a cab and going home .
The television provides an excuse to congregate.
Just like alchohol provides adults with a reason to go somewhere together.
No one will say "hey, let's go hang out". No, that's too uncool or gay. It has to be "let's get drinks", or "so-and-so is on tv" - an excuse. Very odd; when it comes down to it, most people on the planet are terrified of having to have a real conversation.
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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#966520 - 07/11/01 03:34 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/28/00
Posts: 7346
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<>
Reminds me of a conversation I had in Holland several years back with a very good friend. He was explaining to me the Dutch system, where you basically could survive no matter what, due to the dole. So if you wanted to be an artist, you could do it and still manage on a subsistence level.
I told him that sounded pretty cool, to which he said the only problem was that you ended up with art made by a lot of bored people...and that most of the artwork ended up in people's attics.
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#966521 - 07/11/01 03:35 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Anderton
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/28/00
Posts: 7346
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<>
No one's taking them from us, we're handing them over willingly.
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#966523 - 07/11/01 04:24 AM
Re: The "Look and Feel" of Music
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Lee Flier
10k Club
Registered: 09/13/00
Posts: 15398
Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:
No one will say "hey, let's go hang out". No, that's too uncool or gay. It has to be "let's get drinks", or "so-and-so is on tv" - an excuse. Very odd; when it comes down to it, most people on the planet are terrified of having to have a real conversation.
Well Chip, just to illustrate what I mean about the folks I hang out with these days, I have been asked no less than five times in the past week by my friends and bandmates, if I would like to get together and "hang out". On Saturday night for example, we drove out to Athens just to hang out with a few friends from a favorite local band and their wives, who are also good friends. We sat at one couple's house and spun CD's and talked, then went to dinner and continued talking, then went to a bar with an outdoor patio and talked some more until a bigger crowd showed up, at which point one of our gang declared that it was too loud to have a real conversation, and we returned to their home. Yes, these are humans in the 21st century. Rock musicians, even. Nobody thinks it's uncool or needs an excuse to get together. The bass player in our band called me up today in fact, and wanted to come over. We spent a nice few hours hanging out and yakking and spinning some good tunes. And this happens very regularly with us.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm nuts about all these folks and I will never take them for granted, but the fact that this kind of behavior seems so unusual these days is pretty sad. I mean, this feels normal and right to me. Not so long ago, it WAS normal for a lot of people. Now, as you say, it isn't. People rely on drinking and television to form connections. Each other's company is not good enough or maybe as you say, it's too scary.
Sigh...
--Lee
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