#966453 - 07/09/01 04:45 PM
Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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Lee Flier
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Loc: Atlanta,GA,UNITED STATES
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Do you sit down in a room face to face? Give each other prerecorded demos? Some combination of the above? If you make demos for your partner, how "complete" are they? And how do you let your partner know what you want him or her to work on?
Do you find it nerve racking to collaborate with a new partner? Get self conscious about playing your unfinished stuff for them? How do you get past this?
Enquiring minds want to know! And I guess it would be interesting to know too if you are in a band with your partner, or if you only write songs together and don't perform together.
--Lee
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#966454 - 07/09/01 05:18 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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RecreationalThinker
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 163
Loc: Dallas,TX,UNITED STATES
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Lee,
I work with a variety of lyricists on a wide range of material, so the process differs depending on the approach or style. With one person, I get a lyric sheet and am asked to come up with the music. Another person may have some general lyrical ideas, so we sit down together and jam out some basic tracks, then work on refining the ideas separately. When the lyrical idea is mine, I usually have an arrangement already in mind, so I hand the words off to a collaborator and work on the instrumental tracks while s/he is fine-tining the words.
Demos are usually half-way complete for each of the persons with whom I work. Sometimes I will only have a general storyline in my head, and will pass it on to someone who has better lyrical chops (which, in my case, is everyone else on the planet.) Basic rhythm tracks and chords/melody usually work best. I have learned with one particular collaborator to not put the melody on the recording. He thinks that everything recorded is backup, so he always comes up with a new melody. His ideas are always interesting, and frequently lead to a more cohesive meld of lyrics and melody, so I let him have his way. It seems that every tune we work on is slightly different in approach, so we just try to find a comfort zone and work from there.
Regarding expectations, I always make a point of laying out purposes and goals ahead of time. In the case of a new collaborator, I find that "laying down the rules" in advance really heads off a lot of misunderstanding and vagueness down the road. If my demos are rough, I will explain that at the outset. I am not usually apprehensive about rough demos, since I carefully choose the person receiving them, and try to make sure they understand why I want their help. This is usually the case when I only have a general idea of where the song is headed. When I have a more particular focus, I don't collaborate until the demo is prepared enough to avoid being vague (rhythmic tracks, arrangement, etc...).
I don't perform with any of my co-writers. If they choose to perform the material, I am happy to support them in whatever way I can other than being on stage with them. That may change in the future as I get over extreme performance burnout.
Thanks for submitting the topic. I eagerly await other responses.
------------------
What's on, your mind?
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#966455 - 07/09/01 08:14 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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d gauss
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Registered: 02/15/01
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i get 2 cases of cheap beer, a pencil, a guitar, and a boombox, and lock the two of us up in a tiny unfurnished room. no one comes out until the beer is gone. by that time we've either:
a) killed each other
b) written a ditty or two
c) fallen in love
d) really need to pee
e) all of the above
-d. gauss
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#966456 - 07/09/01 08:29 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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ricknbokker
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Loc: Telford,PA,UNITED STATES
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RT said>>> "extreme performance burnout"
I can dig THAT my friend... I burnt out 8 years ago!
Most of my collaboration experience comes in at the vocal arrangement stage.
Although I'm told I'm very easy to work with, I end up feeling bad because the song will come to me almost complete. Then the vocal arrangements I provide end up changing things that were already settled on previously, be it instrumentally or in the actual melody.
They always tell me that it's O.K., but I still feel that I may have screwed them up a little...
I've always found it easier that my collaborations always work best when I'm working with someone who is better than I am musically and/or lyrically.
People that are experienced in the process tend (pleeeaase note the word tend!!!) to be a little more set in their ways, so it's easier for me to 'shake them up' a bit with new ideas.
I will work with a collaborator in whatever manner they feel more comfortable with, be it face to face, or otherwise.
But my best work is done after I have their end of the work in my greedy little hands...all alone... hhmmmm...
Steve
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#966458 - 07/09/01 10:13 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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Steve LeBlanc
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Registered: 12/22/00
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i get 2 cases of cheap beer, a pencil, a guitar, and a boombox, and lock the two of us up in a tiny unfurnished room. no one comes out until the beer is gone. by that time we've either:
a) killed each other
b) written a ditty or two
c) fallen in love
d) really need to pee
e) all of the above
Yeah that was basically my routine...don't forget the green though.
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#966460 - 07/09/01 11:17 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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seclusion
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Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 612
Loc: Orillia, CANADA
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Ya the wife and I sorta collaborate..
I do all the chord stucture thing first... Gtr, keys.. Then I fill it all up with perc, bass whatever.. Then I sing the melody... Doo dooo doo, daa, daa, daaa humm humm.. Then there's a cool tune with this guy sounding like a train ran over him.. Twice... I autotune it.. Then I hand the cdr over to the wife.. She plays it back 2000 times and somehow gets a topic, words and soul to the tune.. Then I resing it... Add the bg vox's and auto tune the sh#t outa all that cause I sing awefull.. But have really great idea's 'I think'.. That's worked for about 50 tunes.. We still have sex... I've only canned her words on 2 songs.. Just didn't work for me..
I've learned that I don't use a red pen to change things that may not fit.. I print another copy, scratch it up and hide it... Just wish we didn't have to work outside of the studio so we could write more...
That's how I market the studio too.. Usually most bands have 1 writer.. So I can really get a good thing going with them before the noise shows up..
Just an odd way.. But it's cool..
Brian
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#966461 - 07/09/01 11:42 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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rold
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Registered: 02/10/01
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Loc: supernatural BC CANADA
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Originally posted by d gauss:
i get 2 cases of cheap beer, a pencil, a guitar, and a boombox, and lock the two of us up in a tiny unfurnished room. no one comes out until the beer is gone. by that time we've either:
a) killed each other
b) written a ditty or two
c) fallen in love
d) really need to pee
e) all of the above
-d. gauss
Yup, that with the herb is my approach too - perfect creative enhancement... 
For a few years there, it was mostly over the phone and email/icq. It could have something to do with the fact that they were from the UK, Russia, Sweden, and the Atlantic US, to name a few - all a fair distance from western Canada.
They'd send me the disc, I'd have a few listens, make a list of what could be improved, and it would go from there. It wasn't so much songwriting as it was 'creative support' though, so I'm not sure if this helps. Hope so!
Harold
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#966462 - 07/09/01 11:50 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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Steve LeBlanc
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I might add that it's always been very rare for me to find someone I can collaborate with. There has to be a lot of respect between the two writers...I've only had a few experiences that worked but they were incredible.
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#966463 - 07/10/01 03:56 AM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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dansouth
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Just be wary of the creative downside of collaboration, as illustrated by this riddle.
Q: What's the definition of a camel?
A: A camel is a horse designed by committee.
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#966464 - 07/10/01 12:24 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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strat0124
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Registered: 04/03/01
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Collaborating is alot of fun, but I seem to collaborate more with singers than musicians. I normally already have something pretty solid, bass lines and all. I'll record a little demo, put on a medium I know they can play back...and let whatever happens, happen. I love writing with pianists...because of the phrasing, fits alot of my guitar phrasing. But I can be a bit overbearing at times (did I say that?), because I hear it in my head a certain way...unless they come up with something better. I tend to shy away from collaborating with folks who come up with a tired formula time after time......and it's damn tough to tell them that in a way that doesn't hurt their feelings. I'm sure they may think the same of my stuff as well! Ha ha!!!!!
It is my fave thing to do, I just don't have the time like I used to. Waiting on that lottery number to hit!!!!!
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#966465 - 07/10/01 05:00 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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DC
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Registered: 01/17/01
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I write quite a bit by myself, but finally, six years ago I found someone who I can write with and the final product is way better than anything I can come up with on my own. She's also my sweetie.
So anyway, I'll generally come up with a rhythm section and give it to her and she writes incredible words and melodies. We'll also sit around with an acoustic and lots of times she can guide me where I need to go to fit what she's got in mind. I still write tunes that are all me, but she can many times do backup vocals (answer and harmony) which really improve things.
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#966467 - 07/11/01 09:19 AM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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d gauss
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Registered: 02/15/01
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Loc: Somewhere in the Swamps of Jer...
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since there seems to be lots of trouble with getting a comp CD done of the different people here how about.... we all collaborate on a tune? not sure how exactly, but it would be an interesting process. there's a wealth of varied talent and ideas here. of course the final result might suck due to "too many cooks" but the exercise would be fun in and of itself. anybody game? strat? chip? lee? i've got a coupla ideas of how to pull it off if anyone's interested.
-d. gauss
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#966468 - 07/11/01 11:37 AM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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Lee Flier
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Hey d gauss, I have a feeling you and I would get along great as collaborators, knowing your tastes. I'd definitely be up for trying it! Maybe if others are interested we could avoid the "too many cooks" syndrome simply by teaming up with only one or two other people who seem to be in similar genres. Then we could have several different songs cowritten by SSS members.
If you've got ideas, let's hear 'em!
--Lee
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#966469 - 07/11/01 12:18 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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strat0124
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I'm game.....I can send a mp3 of ideas, notes, whatever person wants to hear. If you're like me, you have a Peterbuilt-load of ideas, and a toyota amount of time to realize them. I've got several on tape right now.....in fact I have one MP3 here at work of a half-idea, whomever wants it. Gimme a holler.
Gene
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Down like a dollar comin up against a yen, doin pretty good for the shape I'm in
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#966470 - 07/11/01 01:44 PM
Re: Songwriters: how do you collaborate?
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dansouth
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There's a guy on the Keyboard Corner forum who wants to team up with people via RocketNetwork. His thread is titled "Can we all form a band" or something to that effect. Check him out.
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