#966029 - 09/11/01 10:01 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Curve Dominant
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Folks...the Javits Center where AES was to be held is now being used as a makeshift triage center and morgue. Do you REALLY think that ten days from now, people will be happily skipping through the convention, looking at shiny new mics and other gadgets?
I am awaiting official word from the AES, and I have every expectation for them to do the right thing and cancel the show. It would be highly inappropriate to celebrate the industry's innovations at a time like this. Needless to say, even if the show is not officially canceled, I'm not aware of a single company planning to continue their exhibit there.
Sorry. Some things are more important than audio.
- Jeff
Jeff,
I TOTALLY understand your feelings, however...
New Yorkers will have a much different view of this. If AES is cancelled, a lot of folks in NYC, both at Javitz Center and at all of the colateral venues that will see business from it, will lose a lot of income.
This is exactly what the terrorists want: for us to cower in fear and revoltion, to stop us from living our lives freely, to keep us from going about our business. Do we want to give them the satisfaction? I personally do not.
Eric Vincent
curvdominant@earthlink.net
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#966030 - 09/11/01 10:08 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Curve, I also understand your feelings. I, like you, will miss the show. I've attended every year since 1987. And this is indeed the point of terrorism of which I don't like to be a part.
But the show is too close in time and proximity to the event to give the tragedy the respect it deserves. If it were a month away, I'd say "full steam ahead". But not next week. I'm pulling us out, urging all manufacturers to do the same, and hoping that the AES organization does the right thing and officially cancels the show entirely, or re-schedules it.
Again, sorry man, but I can't ask TASCAM to put on a happy face and do a show right now.
- Jeff
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#966031 - 09/11/01 10:10 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Curve Dominant
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I'm pulling us out, urging all manufacturers to do the same, and hoping that the AES organization does the right thing and officially cancels the show entirely, or re-schedules it.
You're making a mistake. Don't give in to terrorists.
YMMV.
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#966032 - 09/11/01 10:22 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Nope. I'm respecting the dead, the injured and the people that love them. Fuck the terrorists. But a trade show is a party, and I won't dance on graves.
No AES. No fucking way. End of story.
- Jeff
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#966033 - 09/11/01 10:36 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Valkyrie Sound
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I love AES too... I love to
see all my industry friends.
I think Jeff and Tascam are doing the
right thing...for now.
I hope all the companies involved
in AES will be able to re-schedule
the event for later this year.
I believe it would be in everyone's
best interest and would give us all
time to distance ourselves from this
horrible event.
Valky
http://www.vsoundinc.com
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#966034 - 09/11/01 11:18 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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chessparov_dup1
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Curve, for what it's worth, I think it's better to reschedule the AES event. A lot of people will be pouring into the area, and I hope that Javits Center will continue to be used to offer whatever help they can. Living through the L.A. riots, and doing some relief work during the
Northridge Earthquake has caused me to think they need some space right
now to sort things out, and whatever the audio cummunity can do, like
keeping accomodations as available as possible for the victim's friends
and family, can ease some of the stress level of this tragedy for them.
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#966035 - 09/11/01 11:18 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Curve Dominant
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Nope. I'm respecting the dead, the injured and the people that love them. Fuck the terrorists. But a trade show is a party, and I won't dance on graves.
You're respecting people in ways that they don't want to be respected in.
New Yorkers will take it as a slap in the face. You'll make them feel as if their city is tainted if you pull out. The Javitz Center and all of the colateral venues will have no time to re-book events if you cancel at this late date. Think of all of the people whose lives will be made even worse by the loss of revenue.
Why the emphasis on partying? It's a meeting of an Engineering Society. Cancelling it is a hasty decision. You should wait another day, when you are calm. I can assure you that if you cancel it, you will feel like a sh*t for doing so a month from now.
It's still a week and a half away, and Javitz is far from the WTC. NYC will be business as usual by Friday, ask any New Yorker.
Hey, I'll save a lot of money and time by not going to AES. But I'm not thinking of myself. Maybe it's because I've worked in catering, I know exactly how those thousands of catering and conference services employees are going to feel when you cancel your bookings. They will NOT feel respected, I can guarrantee you that. But, hey, do what ya want. It's a free country (or it least it was when I woke up today).
E 
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#966036 - 09/11/01 11:33 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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theom
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getting on with life is the most respectful thing we can do now.
I am a new yorker and I agree that aes should go on as scheduled.
A moment of reflection would be appropriate during the events. To abandon new york now would be a bad thing.
chaos and retreat is not the message to send now.
my $.02
_________________________
theo
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#966037 - 09/12/01 12:26 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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dansouth
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Originally posted by Curve Dominant:
It's still a week and a half away, and Javitz is far from the WTC. NYC will be business as usual by Friday, ask any New Yorker.
NYC will be in business tomorrow except for the area below 14th Street. The market will be back up on Thursday, so Wall Street will have to be open by then. New York is a big place. The Javitz Center is miles from the site of the attack.
Follow your conscience, cancel if you feel you must. Only the individual representatives know the logistics involved and know whether they can pull off their displays with the lead time that's available. Personally, I think a black armband, a ribbon, or any symbol that shows respect for the injured and the dead is a more appropriate gesture. I won't disrespect them by bowing to the will of their tormentors.
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#966038 - 09/12/01 12:42 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Curve Dominant
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Personally, I think a black armband, a ribbon, or any symbol that shows respect for the injured and the dead is a more appropriate gesture. I won't disrespect them by bowing to the will of their tormentors.
Thank you, Dan. I wish I could have put it so eloquently. I was struggling to make my views on this understood, perhaps because I am so passionate about them.
My father, uncle and both grandfathers all saw a lot of combat in defence of the values that this country stand for. I think they would be appalled if told that a meeting of scientific minds was cancelled out of fear of terrorists.
Morgan Stanley had more people in the WTC than anyone else, and they will be back to business tomorrow. I think we should get back to business tomorrow as well.
No retreat, no surrender: THAT's respect for the folks who perished in today's act of war.
E
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#966039 - 09/12/01 12:48 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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TinderArts
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Curve, on point as usual. Hope to see you there.
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#966040 - 09/12/01 01:23 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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NYC Drew
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Can a New Yorker get a word in edgewise here?
I was in NYC during the WTC bombing. It was (really) business as usual after about...4 days. Sure, a lot more security etc etc.
This is so much different. We lost two whole zip codes today. We're not talking chicken shit here. I think tomorrow, when we wake up, and see the devastation with fresh eyes...brace yourselves.
Reports of over 200 missing firefighters (including a fire chief & a deputy chief; 70+ NYPD and/or Port Auth Police) so much carnage, it's not sunk in yet.
Let's talk about AES on the 13th or 14th.
No matter how any of us may choose to define this, our government has interpreted this as an act of war against America.
No two of us think alike, feel alike.
So, if Jeff feels that it's abhorent to have the AES convention next week, that's his right.
If Curve & Tinder Arts are gung ho on the AES, that's their thing. Let's try to respect another man's position.
It's a lack of understanding and respect that lead us to this shit today.
If AES happens on the 21st, NYC Drew will be there. Life continues.
NYC Drew
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#966041 - 09/12/01 02:52 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Curve Dominant
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NYC Drew posted:
Can a New Yorker get a word in edgewise here?...
Drew,
I am truly sorry if, as a non-New Yorker, my posts seem insensitive in any way.
I just watched Mayor Guiliani speak of the missing Fire Chief and the Deputy Fire Chief, and it was hard to watch without breaking down. You could tell that the Mayor, while speaking of the party that he had just held for Deputy Chief Meehan at Gracie Mansion, was holding on tightly to his emotions. As a Philadelphia citizen who visits NYC regularly, and has friends there, and a girlfriend there, and job opportunities there, I tend to think of New York as my second home. Trust me, my good brother, I am feeling pain for this like nothing I have ever felt.
This is an emotional time for all of us, and we all react in various ways. If this was a natural disaster, believe me, my attitude might be COMPLETELY different. But it was not; as you stated, the American government believes, as do I, that it was an act of war.
That having been said, Drew, please allow me to respectfully correct one detail of your post: It is most definitely NOT the AES meeting that I am "gung-ho" about - on the contrary, I could give a f*ck about AES. I'm a composer, what do I need with AES?
What it is exactly that I AM gung-ho about, is the SPIRIT with to which we respond to this attack on our soil, our people, our way of life, our nation. Our very notions of freedom and democracy and civilization have been attacked in a way that they have never been in the history of our great nation, in the history of democracy itself. I have no doubt in my mind that the reality of the carnage and devastation at the WTC will billow in the coming weeks, and years. We have had a knife thrust into our hearts, all of us.
There are, simplistically put, three ways to react to this act of unspeakable barbarism against our nation: apathy, retreat, and defiance. Given the historical perspective on how these things tend to play out over time, it is in my opinion that defiance is the most effective reaction. The most obvious example is England's defiance of Nazi Germany, when virtually all other European nations had crumbled in the face of the Nazi onslaught.
I do not give a flying f*ck about AES. But I want it to go on, and I would like to attend if it does, as an act of defiance in the face of this threat to our democracy. Yes, totally on principle.
And, I suspect that if it does go on, all of those who do attend will feel proud for having done so, given the circumstances.
Will there be a "party" atmosphere if AES does proceed next week? No, but what if this is a good thing? We will all be there, serious, devoted to the purpose of the gathering: to advance scientific knowledge of our craft. That IS important, isn't it? We ARE professionals, of the civilized world, in the new millenium, right? YO! The very best thing that we could do, for our nation, for the civilized world, under the circumstances, is to get on with our work. Not at a slower pace, but at a more intensified one. This is what I am "gung-ho" about.
The industry seems to have grown to think of AES meetings as parties. This AES meeting will be something different. We have a mission now. We have important roles in our society. We bring good things to people and culture. We ARE culture. Let's make this AES meeting something bigger and more important than a party. We, as a nation, are not in "party" mode anymore. But we do need to get back to work, and with a vengeance, so let's all go to Javitz next week and do just that, together. That's my view.
Eric Vincent
Curve Dominant Sound&Vision
curvdominant@earthlink.net
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#966042 - 09/12/01 03:05 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Pro Jules
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I wonder if NYC Mayor Guliani will appeal to folks to stay away while NYC
heals itself...
My flight in two days from the UK will be f^**ed certainly....
I belive the CMJ I hoped to attend prior will be in dire trouble re
transport issues
anyhow, god help the survivors and rescurers... The damage is total, but I
am sure mortality is not. Survivors need to be dug out.. Business as usual
might not be 'the order of the day' - rescue will be. It may take a week to
get to some folks.. perhaps longer. Personaly, I dont know if I could kick
tires' while all that was going on....
Jules
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#966043 - 09/12/01 03:28 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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dansouth
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Eric is right. AES, if it goes on, will be a sober event. But it will be a healing event as well, an opportunity to share our passion for music, to express our respect for one another, and to give testament to our love of humanity.
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#966044 - 09/12/01 10:01 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Pro Jules
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from http://www.aes.org/
> AES reschedules 111th Convention to November 30 - December 3, 2001
> In view of the tragic events that took place yesterday there has been a
> lot of speculation as to whether the AES 111th Convention would proceed
> next week, as planned.
>
> There were several factors to be taken into consideration and a
> necessity to have discussions with other parties. For this reason we
> did not make a hasty statement.
>
> We have just returned from the Javits Center where we had a meeting
> with their top management. We learned that the New York City Mayorís
> Office of Emergency Management and the Federal Emergency Management
> Agency (FEMA) have taken over large portions of the Javits Center for
> use in coordinating emergency services. We also learned that FEMA will
> have complete control of these spaces and any others that they need,
> for an undetermined period. This obviously makes holding the event as
> planned impossible. However, we were able to reschedule the convention,
> rather than just cancel it. Most of the people who contacted us hoped
> that this would be the solution.
>
> The new dates will be Friday, November 30 to Monday, December 3, 2001,
> with the same exhibit, demo and conference space as would have been
> used next week.
>
> We at the Audio Engineering Society would like to thank those of you
> who took the time and trouble to inquire about the safety of the staff
> here in the New York Office and to wish us well and give us your
> support. This was much appreciated.
>
> Lastly at this sad time, we would like to spare a thought for those who
> have had their lives so much more severely disrupted than any of us. We
> were, and are, very sensitive to their feelings. Let us hope that we
> can look forward to better times ahead.
>
> Sincerely
>
> Roger Furness
> AES Executive Director
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#966045 - 09/12/01 10:03 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Pro Jules
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Please tell me the restaraunt and our host are OK.
Jules
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#966046 - 09/12/01 10:59 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Dave Bryce
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Actually - there may be a bright spot here...
Hopefully, Max's shoulder will be recovered enough that he will be able to fly by the end of November; and, if he and Claudio are still willing to do the dinner then, he can actually be there for it!!!
That'd be way cool!
dB
_________________________
www.davidbryce.net Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
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#966047 - 09/12/01 11:19 PM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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soapbox
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Jules, Max has reported that Claudio is okay. I don't know what condition the restaurant is in. I believe it is a half a mile from where the WTC was.
Dave, it's nice to think that maybe Max could attend in late November. This also gives me another chance to see if I can make it there after all...
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#966048 - 09/13/01 12:47 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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THE MIX FIX
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Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:
NYC will be in business tomorrow except for the area below 14th Street. The market will be back up on Thursday, so Wall Street will have to be open by then. New York is a big place. The Javitz Center is miles from the site of the attack.
Follow your conscience, cancel if you feel you must. Only the individual representatives know the logistics involved and know whether they can pull off their displays with the lead time that's available. Personally, I think a black armband, a ribbon, or any symbol that shows respect for the injured and the dead is a more appropriate gesture. I won't disrespect them by bowing to the will of their tormentors.
Dan, you are so full of shit, your eyes are brown!!
Morgan Stanley lost HUNDREDS of people!! The Building that NASDAQ is in is collapsing!!
Javits Center is a TEMPORARY MORGUE!!
I'll wear a black band around my dick for you insensitivity, 'machoism,' disrespect, and selfishness, not to mention your pea brain!!
Where ever you live, please STAY there!!
------------------
Bob.
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#966050 - 09/13/01 03:17 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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dansouth
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Originally posted by THE MIX FIX:
Dan, you are so full of shit, your eyes are brown!!
Morgan Stanley lost HUNDREDS of people!! The Building that NASDAQ is in is collapsing!!
Javits Center is a TEMPORARY MORGUE!!
I'll wear a black band around my dick for you insensitivity, 'machoism,' disrespect, and selfishness, not to mention your pea brain!!
Where ever you live, please STAY there!!
Bob,
I'm not sure what I did to YOU that inspired such a venomous response, but please feel free to flail away if that makes you feel better. This is a difficult time for all, and if spewing insults helps you to deal with this, who am I to judge you?
I DO wish that you would get your facts straight before disseminating hysterical disinformation to the general public, however. The NASDAQ building is on Broadway at least a dozen blocks from the World Trade Center, down near the Alexander Hamilton U.S. Customs House and the Staten Island Ferry station. It takes more than ten minutes to walk from the trade center courtyard to NASDAQ, and that's walking FAST. Maybe some OTHER building is falling over, but it is NOT the NASDAQ building. Hopefully no NASDAQers on this board took your post to heart.
Morgan Stanley may indeed have lost hundreds of people, probably some that I know personally, but regardless, the markets will be open by Monday if not sooner. You can hold your dick in your hand if you wish, but those of us in the financial industry have to move forward, because the world will not wait for us to get over this. The stock market's computer systems have been checked and deemed ready to go. The only hold up is getting people down to Broad Street safely. As soon as that detail is ironed out, we're back on line. I'm sorry if that seems macho or insensitive to you, but that's the way it is. Like it or not, I am a part of something that demands my attention at all times, even difficult times.
With regard to Javitz Center being a morgue, that may be true, may not. I haven't heard the staight story on that. I did hear that bodies were being ferried to Jersey City, but I won't speculate on things that I can't confirm. As of five o'clock this afternoon, only fifty-three people had been confirmed dead, so I doubt that the Javitz Center is being utilized at this time. It probably will be before this is over, however.
Peace
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#966051 - 09/13/01 03:43 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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TinderArts
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Originally posted by THE MIX FIX:
Dan, you are so full of shit, your eyes are brown!!
Morgan Stanley lost HUNDREDS of people!! The Building that NASDAQ is in is collapsing!!
Javits Center is a TEMPORARY MORGUE!!
I'll wear a black band around my dick for you insensitivity, 'machoism,' disrespect, and selfishness, not to mention your pea brain!!
Where ever you live, please STAY there!!
Bob, what planet are you on. To quote you "Where ever you live, please STAY there!!"
edited to keep the temp down..............
This message has been edited by TinderArts on 09-13-2001 at 12:52 AM
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#966052 - 09/13/01 04:15 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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dansouth
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To clarify as I did on another thread, I made a mistake on my previous NASDAQ comment. The NASD moved their headquarters into a new building, recently. The exchange and all of the computers are still in the old building, the one I cited. But Bob was correct, the new Headquarters building is right across the street from the WTC (right across from my old office), and that building is starting to crumble.
I bought my cell phone in a store on the ground floor of that building. I hope the staff got out before all hell broke loose.
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#966053 - 09/13/01 09:42 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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THE MIX FIX
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Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:
To clarify as I did on another thread, I made a mistake on my previous NASDAQ comment. The NASD moved their headquarters into a new building, recently. The exchange and all of the computers are still in the old building, the one I cited. But Bob was correct, the new Headquarters building is right across the street from the WTC (right across from my old office), and that building is starting to crumble.
I bought my cell phone in a store on the ground floor of that building. I hope the staff got out before all hell broke loose.
Whoops, that's me, all right, spreading unfounded rumors!!
I went to school, and have worked in NYC for over 30 years, and am quite aware of what's up, thanks.
Oh yea, as for the Javits Center being used as a Morgue, and only 53 people dead, (Not to mention the over 200 Firemen and 50-60 Cops, so far); Guiliani just ordered 6,000 body bags. You will NOT be trading until Monday, at LEAST!!
I WISH I could repeat what a friend, whose Brother works for a 'Government Agency', and is stationed overseas, and NOT allowed to return here just yet, told him is REALLY known by the USA, and what is expected to happen, but I can't, and he could only tell me a BIT.
THIS IS NO JOKE!!
And, when it's 'business as usual' next week, (if EVER), write this down, and seal it in an envelope to read in a few months. 'IT AIN'T OVER, by a LONG shot!!'
------------------
Bob.
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#966054 - 09/13/01 09:52 AM
Re: DINNER PARTY IN NYC AT THE AES CONVENTION
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Mats Olsson.
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Addit Info from AES...
Dear AES Member,
In view of the tragic events that took place yesterday there
has been a lot of speculation as to whether the AES 111th
Convention would proceed next week, as planned.
There were several factors to be taken into consideration
and a necessity to have discussions with other parties. For
this reason we did not make a hasty statement.
We have just returned from the Javits Center where we had
a meeting with their top management. We learned that the
New York City Mayor’s Office of Emergency Management
and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
have taken over large portions of the Javits Center for use
in coordinating emergency services. We also learned that
FEMA will have complete control of these spaces and any
others that they need, for an undetermined period. This
obviously makes holding the event as planned impossible.
However, we were able to reschedule the convention,
us hoped that this would be the solution.
The new dates will be Friday, November 30 to Monday,
December 3, 2001, with the same exhibit, demo and
conference space as would have been used next week.
We at the Audio Engineering Society would like to thank
those of you who took the time and trouble to inquire about
the safety of the staff here in the New York Office and to wish
us well and give us your support. This was much appreciated.
Lastly at this sad time, we would like to spare a thought for
those who have had their lives so much more severely
disrupted than any of us. We were, and are, very sensitive
to their feelings. Let us hope that we can look forward to
better times ahead.
Sincerely,
Roger Furness
AES Executive Director
-----------------------
/Mats
_________________________
 What do we want? Procrastination! When do we want it? Later!
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