#965059 - 06/28/01 02:57 PM
The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Anderton
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Interesting that we've had the "profanity in lyrics" thread here...we seem to be on top of the curve, because the FCC fined some poor station in Colorado $7K for playing the clean version of Eminem's "The Real Slim Shady."
Now, I'm no big Eminem fan. And I understand that it's considered uncool to play music with obscenities on the radio, and I don't have a problem with that...public airwaves, prevailing community standards, blah blah blah.
But this was the edited version. The station was busted because of a complaint from a single listener. Some of the wording was considered "offensive." Offensive? Hell yes!! That's what Eminem's about, as were the Sex Pistols, GG Allin, etc. But "obscene"? NO!! There's a big difference, and it's scary that the FCC doesn't recognize it.
Also, this sure seems to violate the "equal protection under the law" concept big-time. What about all the other stations that played the tune? Why didn't they get fined?
It is very disturbing that a government agency is exercising its muscle to selectively mute free speech. It's also disturbing that I haven't seen a lot of protest about this, but count me in as saying that the FCC's decision is so wrong I don't know where to start. I fervently hope they lose on appeal.
FYI the FCC commissioner is Colin Powell's son, and has distinguished himself in the past by doing everything possible to discourage low-power radio stations.
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#965060 - 06/28/01 03:06 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Lee Flier
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Interesting that we've had the "profanity in lyrics" thread here...we seem to be on top of the curve...
Really? All of us? The Curve must be getting squashed... if I were him I'd be using lots of profanity too! 
Seriously though, that IS a very scary piece of news, and one which I had not heard. We ought to write to Mr. Powell and tell him what we think... and not give him the "edited" version either! LOL...
--Lee
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#965061 - 06/28/01 03:08 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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kent_powell@palmercay.com
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Last one to post Mr. Powell's email address is a rotten egg!
And it ain't me! I'm on Craig's side on this one.
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#965062 - 06/28/01 03:23 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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ViLo
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Oh! the so call freedom! freedom to kill, freedom to place bombs, freedom to offend, freedom to curse, freedom to cause trouble, freedom to rape children, freedom to delcare yourself insane, freedom to use your freedom freely............
I'M AFRAID, VERY, VERY AFRAID  !
ViLo
------------------
HE'S COMING, MAKE MUSIC, BE HAPPY! 
This message has been edited by ViLo on 06-28-2001 at 01:24 PM
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#965063 - 06/28/01 03:33 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Kris
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Wow, I just heard that on the radio yesterday and I was kinda surprised when I heard it. It's real obvious what words are blanked out, even if you've never heard the song. Still sucks for that station...
Speaking of which, Alpha, what ever happened to your local station?
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#965064 - 06/28/01 03:46 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Dylan
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I've noticed a lot more bleeped songs on the radio recently. Songs that used to get played with words like *shit* are now getting bleeped out consistently. Why do I feel like things are getting more and more censored recently? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Unfortunately, it looks like the Tipper Gore's of the world getting more powerful in there "save the children" bullshit escapades. Got to protect the children from hearing words that are much more tame than what they hear on the playground (or at home).
-Dylan
This message has been edited by Dylan Walters on 06-28-2001 at 01:46 PM
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#965065 - 06/28/01 03:47 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Tedster
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Well ViLo, you have a point on certain issues, say for instance so-called "convict's rights" (a sexual predator moves into your neighborhood and you don't have the right to know about it, because his "right" to privacy overrules your right to protect your family).
But, your so-called "right to offend"...if this person has such virgin ears, what are they listening to that station for in the first place? If I have cable, I can choose to be offended by watching something I consider offensive or not. If they had been playing the unedited version on Magic FM "music just for the two of us", I could understand, but one must choose what one listens to wisely as well. If you're easily offended, you shouldn't sit and listen to an "offensive" station just for the perverse joy of playing tattletale (which is what I think some people do).
There was a radio station once upon a time that did a comedy bit on the morning show that I found offensive, mainly because it had racist overtones. But, being white, I figured if it wasn't bothering any of the black listeners, why should it bother me?
People are always looking for something to be offended over. We've got a whole poster on the wall at work about what NOT to say to people with disabilities, how not to refer to them. Well, one can try and be careful, but I for one am NOT going to worry every single minute about whether someone finds something I say to be offensive. I do what I can, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I headed up a program once to bring the bloodmobile to work. Those who wished to donate had signed up for certain time slots. I sent an all-hands email to remind those who'd signed up (about maybe a third of the office) when they were supposed to be there (rather than just to those who'd signed up...it was easier the way I did it). Well, some nimrod who DIDN'T sign up got WAY OFFENDED at my email, because he thought I singled him out for not donating. Bullshit. Like I said, he was with about 2/3 of the staff. I tried to apologize, but the hosebag just kept on raving about how I'd called attention to HIM. After trying, I just said, "Well, I tried to apologize (for something unintentional), but it sounds like it's YOUR problem now. GET OVER IT."
So, to everyone who is easily offended...I offer these little words...
GET OVER IT.
And, I oppose those who oppose low power FM.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#965066 - 06/28/01 03:53 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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mantovibe_dup1
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Originally posted by ViLo:
Oh! the so call freedom! freedom to kill, freedom to place bombs, freedom to offend, freedom to curse, freedom to cause trouble, freedom to rape children, freedom to delcare yourself insane, freedom to use your freedom freely............
I'M AFRAID, VERY, VERY AFRAID !
ViLo
Hey,you shoul be afraid of your fellows repubicans!
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#965067 - 06/28/01 04:02 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Dylan
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Why? It's the democrats that are censoring everything!
-Dylan
Originally posted by mantovibe:
Hey,you shoul be afraid of your fellows repubicans!
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#965068 - 06/28/01 04:11 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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the stranger
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There is absolutely no difference between either party. The differences are a perpetuated farce to make the people believe there is a choice.
FYI the FCC commissioner is Colin Powell's son, and has distinguished himself
in the past by doing everything possible to discourage low-power radio
stations.
This sucks. I was beginning to think there was a bit of hope. It's the least they could do after giving away that massive portion of the airwaves in the Telecommunications act.
Capitalism has fucked our country beyond repair.
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#965069 - 06/28/01 04:27 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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miroslav
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Yeah, but capitalism also gives us the good life too.
If you think not...move to some Third World Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Dictatorship Cess Pool and then send us a post card to let us know how good life is there!
Take the good with the bad...over all, livin' in the USA is more good than bad. We just have to stand up and speak our minds, make those votes count, try and make a difference, at least you won't get jailed or shot doin' that here in the USA.
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#965070 - 06/28/01 05:15 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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the stranger
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Don't get me wrong, I love my country. I just see where we are going. You mean to tell me you don't look around and see a "Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Dictatorship Cess Pool"?
I'm not going to get into a long winded debate (or maybe I will).
Our political system has been corrupted by capitalism. I'm not against capitalism in itself, I'm against it infiltrating every facet of our freedom. Our rights as dictated by the constitution are totally compromised. 99% of the problems this country face can be traced back to capitalism.
We the people? No. We the corporate entity with the most money? Yes.
Freedom of speech? If you can afford it.
Every single move the federal govermment makes is in the interest of money, not the good of the people.
Why have the states lost the rights they are legally entitled to? The feds have all the money. And they blackmail the states to get get their way.
This is supposed to be a representative republic. Our representation is gone. It is being sold to the highest bidder.
I'm sure your first thought was I was a left wing liberal. Wrong. When it comes to the government, I'm damn near ultra conservative.
Capitalism and Government are one. This is not the way it should be.
What would our forefathers think of the fact that a price has been put on our representation?
If you don't see a a "Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Dictatorship Cess Pool", than you are blind.
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#965071 - 06/28/01 05:33 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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dansouth
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For some additional, fascist, totalitarian, FCC naughty business, I bounced my "Your Revolution" thread back up to the top of the forum. Have a look.
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#965072 - 06/28/01 05:43 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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miroslav
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OK dr destructo...let's NOT get into a long-winded debate. Here is my rebuttal, and then I'll let it go.
There is much truth in what you say.
But if not capitalism...what then?
As far as states having more control...ahhh that is a sticky subject and I think that causes many problems too...just look at the "voting debacle" last November…every state had different rules.
We are a COUNTRY...US of A, therefore, the same global rules that apply to someone from California, should apply to someone from NY...PERIOD. Otherwise, you open up the possibilities that in some states where there is a "certain kind of majority", they can go and control/bully the rest of the state citizens.
NO...we are a country. Back in 1776 it was a TOTALLY different situation, and I can understand why they needed to give states certain "individual controls"...there are small particular things that could/should be left up to the states, but certain equality issues, education, global/political decisions, the economy, energy issues...NO…one nation!!!
An finally, maybe you see some of the "Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Dictatorship Cess Pools" forming here and there, but again I say...pick some country where this REALLY IS AN EVERY DAY WAY OF LIFE and compare that to what we have here...WE ARE VERY LUCKY OVERALL.
But I state again that we still have to stand up and speak our minds, make those votes count, try and make a difference, and a change when needed. At least we can still freely do that here, but you can't in a "Socialist/Communist/Fascist/Dictatorship Cess Pool".
OK...that's it...my three-minute rebuttal to your three-minute rebuttal is up...no more…next topic please…ahhh music, yes that is a great topic!!!
ADDENDUM: By the way...I HAVE spent substantial time in a Socialist/Dictatorship country. Back in the 70s when it really was scary.
Had my US Passport taken away, was questioned by the Military Police, had to leave the country without a visa...not fun having your rights taken away...Good kontry Amerika...that's what most of those people will say!
This message has been edited by miroslav on 06-28-2001 at 04:07 PM
_________________________
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
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#965073 - 06/28/01 05:46 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Anderton
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ViLo, freedom is a double-edged sword. It gives people the right to file legitimate grievances, and it gives jerks the right to be jerks in public, in front of all of us.
The problem is defining what is "offensive." I'm sure Hitler would have considered speaking out against the National Socialist Party as "offensive." He considered Jews, gypsies, and homosexuals "offensive." In many countries, voting for the wrong person is offensive. In China, speaking out in favor of a free Tibet is offensive. In Afghanistan, it seems just about anything is offensive.
I prefer a system where people are allowed to be offensive as long as it doesn't produce physical suffering, and let society decide. The Klan and the American Nazi party were protected by free speech, much to the consternation of people who found them offensive. And you know what? They used that freedom of speech to try to promote their views...and managed to turn off just about anyone with an IQ higher than 10. Had they been silenced, they would have been martyrs. No good would have come from that.
You mention "freedom to kill, freedom to place bombs, freedom to cause trouble, freedom to rape children..." But you don't have the freedom to kill, it is a capital offense. Nor do you have the freedom to place bombs, and if you rape children, you can expect the full force of the law to bounce your sorry ass into jail. Freedom to cause trouble? Only if it fits within the confines of the law.
You can't compare speech to actions such as what you describe. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names can never hurt me." And remember, this was ONE station being fined for playing the CLEAN version. When I broke the law once back in the 60s by tuning up a transmitter on a harmonic of the frequency-determining crystal instead of the fundamental (ooops!!), I got a stern warning from the FCC saying "don't do that again." (Thank God I didn't bring any planes down or anything...) In this case, I think it would have been FAR more appropriate if the FCC had issued a warning to the effect that "Just because a record company says a record is clean doesn't mean that we view it that way, so be careful." Either that, or fine EVERYBODY who played the thing out of fairness.
No doubt about it, at best this is highly selective enforcement of the law.
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#965074 - 06/28/01 05:52 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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hop-frog
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It all boils down to America's "puritan ethics" we are shovel fed sex and violence in all forms of media. But by God we better not talk about it. It is the proverbial "elephant in the living room" we are all supposed to ignore or we won't make it into the pearly gates which are governed by the invisible man in the sky who happens to be Santa's first cousin.
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#965075 - 06/28/01 05:54 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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trick fall
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It's so unbeleivable that they do this crap. The FCC has just been going down hill since the Reagan years, they're also in many ways responsible for the building of the mega media empires. I remember when networkds weren't allowed own the studios that produced the shows, now I watch HBO films on HBO on Time Warner/AOL cable.
Besides the really offensive stuff they do nothing about, I mean you can watch Baptist church on the Fox family channel all the time, I mean if my future kids ever saw that I'd be terribly upset! Worse they might see the 700 club!!!!!!!!! God I get so angry just thinking of the possibility.
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#965076 - 06/28/01 06:15 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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alphajerk
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actually craig, child molestors, rapists, and murderers can serve LESS time than some drug offenders. kinda sick. some dont serve anytime at all. some teach in the school system.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#965077 - 06/28/01 06:25 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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djarrett
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Hey, Craig:
I agree with you on this, but am interested in views on accountability.
You know, that along with our freedom has come some pretty corrupt politicians, Presidents, Corporations, etc.
What ever happened to the Golden Rule.
All this screaming and ranting about the Death Penalty ... if they had left it in place, and criminals knew that there were consequences other than free meals, weight rooms, cable TV, etc., perhaps we would not have these problems.
Now, I am *NOT* saying we should play God ... but, rather hold our society accountable for its actions.
30 years ago, you would have been put in prison for these types of lyrics. Now, as we have "grown" as a society, I think we have to analyse the cause and effect of all of this.
Our divorce rate is now at 65% (or one in three children will not have a father around).
Our crime rate is at an all time high.
Even our President gets away with crimes.
Gang membership is at an all time high.
Kids will see or hear more acts of sex, murder, violence, etc. on TV, Movies and Song by the time they graduate from high school than someone would have in an entire livetime 30 years ago!
Where does it end. What can we do. How do we stop allowing ourselves to be victims to our own undoing?
How does accountability come into the picture?
DJ
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#965078 - 06/28/01 06:33 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Lee Flier
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DJ:
The death penalty has never proved to be a deterrent to crime. And I believe all the violent lyrics, violence on TV etc. are a REACTION to all the crime, divorce, etc., not the cause of it. There wouldn't be violence on TV if people didn't want to see it. There wouldn't be a drug problem if people didn't want to take drugs... and if people do want to take drugs, no matter what they do to drug dealers the dealers and smugglers will think it's worth it. Etc.
Not that I don't think radio or television sucks, but there's a real simple way to say so: turn it off. I do. I don't feel like watching or listening to this crap and there are about a thousand other things that are on my list of priorities before I'd even turn on the TV to watch something GOOD. So what makes me turn it off and other people turn it on? THERE is where you need to be looking for answers.
--Lee
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#965079 - 06/28/01 06:39 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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djarrett
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Great point Lee!
Just turnin' it off!
DJ
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#965080 - 06/28/01 06:43 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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rold
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Originally posted by miroslav:
We just have to stand up and speak our minds, make those votes count, try and make a difference, at least you won't get jailed or shot doin' that here in the USA.
I wouldn't take that for granted if I were you... 
Harold
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meh
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#965081 - 06/28/01 06:59 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Tedster
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Lee said to Dendy...
>>>The death penalty has never proved to be a deterrent to crime. And I believe all the violent lyrics, violence on TV etc. are a REACTION to all the crime, divorce, etc., not the cause of it.
On your second point...amen. On your first, though, I can vouch that the death penalty has "deterred" Ted Bundy from committing another murder, has effectively "deterred" Tim McVeigh from blowing up another building...etc. I say that kind of tongue in cheek, because I know that to those who are really bent on murdering someone, nothing will deter them. However, I'd like to think that there are countless others who walk a fine line between being normal citizens and murderers, and do not cross that line because they don't really want to be strapped to a gurney.
I do readily concur that the cheapening of family structure through divorce produces angry kids. All of us probably see it all the time. The "numbing of society". There are granted some situations where divorce is the only possible alternative. But, as I said...society is getting numb, and that is dangerous.
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#965082 - 06/28/01 07:00 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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rold
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Originally posted by Anderton:
But you don't have the freedom to kill, it is a capital offense. Nor do you have the freedom to place bombs, and if you rape children, you can expect the full force of the law to bounce your sorry ass into jail. Freedom to cause trouble? Only if it fits within the confines of the law.
Hmmmm...correct me if I'm wrong, but Texas for example sure has the freedom to kill (and boy do they ever take advantage of that), any military in the world has the freedom to place bombs as they see fit, and raping children? There are at the very least a thousand catholic priests guilty of that. Jailtime? Nope, a lawsuit and a fine, in Canada anyway.
But I totally agree with you on the selective enforcement point. It's ridiculous. I can't understand how a secular child rapist gets 10 to life, and a priest doing the same, at a MUCH larger scale, gets a lawsuit (against his church, not him) and a fine.
Harold
This message has been edited by rold on 06-28-2001 at 05:12 PM
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meh
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#965083 - 06/28/01 07:50 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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David R.
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The death penalty is a way for victims to feel they have gotten revenge. To say killing is not accepted in our society and kill those who do it makes no sense.
Television is a pacifier, taking away the desire to think independently.
Democracy is a political system, capitalism is an economic system. Our political system is highly influenced by our economic system. (Opening a can of worms here) Organized religion also does what it can to influence our democracy. The golden rule - those with the gold make the rules. If you look at that like a math formula, then it can also read those who make the rules have the gold.
Makes me want to play accoustic guitar.
-David R.
_________________________
-David R.
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#965084 - 06/28/01 08:26 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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ricknbokker
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Getting back on track here...(sorry)
I find it hard to believe that this 'ruckus' was the result of ONE complaint.
Taking this problem to it's base, it seems to me that this is a matter of numbers.
Perhaps we can push our congresspersons to enact some changes to the way the FCC handles complaints such as these.
How about this...
A radio station plays a song.
Complaints are recieved.
The FCC logs the complaints for a set duration of time.
After such time, the FCC looks at the number of complaints recieved, and working with a 'to be determined' percentage, compares the amount of complaints recieved to the latest Arbitron ratings available for that station, in that time period.
If the complaints do not equal or surpass the percentage set forth, NO ACTION IS TAKEN.
I know this set-up is not 'bug-free', but it looks to me like it would satisfy any requirements regarding 'Majority Rules', which is supposed to be what a democracy provides.
I also know that even if tweaked and perfected, this FCC 'complaint system' would never work, considering that it would make sense!!!
Steve
(what do I know??!!)
Steve
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#965085 - 06/28/01 08:56 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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rold
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Originally posted by dxr@iname.com:
The golden rule - those with the gold make the rules.
-David R.
ROTFLMAO Good point!
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meh
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#965086 - 06/28/01 09:00 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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Tedster
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
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David said...
>>>The death penalty is a way for victims to feel they have gotten revenge. To say killing is not accepted in our society and kill those who do it makes no sense.
One who has never gone through the pain of having a loved one murdered will never understand. Some punishment must be leveled against those who wantonly take life. My complaint is that the way the death penalty is meted out is flawed, and that perhaps it should be reexamined due to that. But, where someone has knowingly and beyond any shadow of doubt preyed upon and stolen the life from innocent victims, that person in my opinion has forfeited everything, first and foremost their right to live. Therefore, knowing the laws, knowing the penalties, it becomes not the state that is their executioner, but themselves.
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#965087 - 06/28/01 09:15 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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djarrett
Platinum Member
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 1693
Loc: Nashville,TN,UNITED STATES
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By no means was my referencing the Death Penalty a ploy to derail the original message posted by Craig. It was only a point of reference regarding the lack of accountability by our society.
This plays right into the lyrics of Eminem. If parent would do their job and dis-allow their kids to listen to this SSSSS --- tuff, perhaps record sales would not happen and these artist would have to resort to really making music that promotes a positive message and impacts society in a productive way!
Although I believe in freedom of speech, I do believe that censorship has its place. If your parents taught you well, you do not walk around in the general public spouting off profanity! If you do, you are likely to get escorted from the premises. Mass message delivery (Music, radio, TV, etc) should be no different (in my opinion)
If you feel differently, perhaps you have never had someone you know or love killed in some senseless crime committed by some teen that just listened to E talk about "popping" someone!
Thoughts?
DJ
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#965088 - 06/28/01 09:27 PM
Re: The FCC: Be Afraid...Be Very Afraid!
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David R.
Platinum Member
Registered: 09/07/00
Posts: 1213
Loc: San Francisco,CA,UNITED STATES
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Tedster, I have lost many people close to me, none to murder. I'm very sorry that you have lost someone in that circumstance, and I hope that I never know that pain. Placing someone in jail for life is punishment. It removes them from society and takes away their freedom, for the rest of their life. Our justice system is by no means foolproof, and innocent people have been put to death, along with guilty ones. Some of the innocent have been rescued from death row by new evidence, that to me is enough of a reason to stop capital punishment, as European nations have done. I heard on NPR this morning that someone was being extradited (from France? I was getting out of the shower) under the condition that the death penalty would not be an option.
What forum was this? Topic?
-David R.
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-David R.
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