#959730 - 05/07/01 01:26 PM
Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Anderton
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We've had several threads where people have railed against the pre-fab stars like Britney Spears, N Sync, Backstreet Boys, etc. I usually took the stance of hey, the songs aren't bad, they're doing music, cut 'em a break.
But with my daughter watching Nickelodeon, I've had a chance to see the VIDEOS, not just hear the music. And now I see what the complaints are about. The videos look soooooo synthetic, so staged, so over-the-top visually that the music is relegated to having little real impact.
When I heard only the music, my image was of a bunch of people singing in a studio, which made me much more friendly to the music. Now, those videos have influenced me to the point where when I hear the music, I can't get those images out of my mind. The music itself may sound manipulated, but it pales in comparison to the audio/visual manipulation present in those videos.
I also noticed that on Nickelodeon, there is SATURATION advertising of "Now that's what I call music." I mean like every few minutes! It's obvious that this music is being marketed only to teens and sub-teens. The good news, I guess, is that at least kids are being turned on to music, and as they mature, hopefully their musical tastes will too.
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#959731 - 05/07/01 01:31 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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d gauss
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btw, all you parents will be none too happy to learn the the director for the biggest britney, christine, etc videos was/is a major porn movie director! no joke.
-d. gauss
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#959732 - 05/07/01 01:35 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Anderton
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>>btw, all you parents will be none too happy to learn the the director for the biggest britney, christine, etc videos was/is a major porn movie director! <<
Which leads to the question: has he done an upward or downward career move?
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#959733 - 05/07/01 01:37 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Lee Flier
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Yeah it's all about "the total package" and the music is completely secondary. Kids are learning to expect music to be a "spectacle" and unless they have parents or teachers who actively expose them to different stuff, it will be hard for them to ever appreciate musical subtlety.
That's just one more reason I really like Napster. At least it promotes kids thinking for themselves and listening to all different types of music, including a lot of artists who don't even MAKE videos.
--Lee
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#959734 - 05/07/01 02:04 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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aeon
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Originally posted by d gauss:
btw, all you parents will be none too happy to learn the the director for the biggest britney, christine, etc videos was/is a major porn movie director! no joke.
This is a bit of a misrepresentation...Gregory Dark directed a single video for Britney Spears. Other than introducing this bit of trivia to the discussion, there was nothing in the video (other than the objectification of human beings and a lack of depth to the presentation) to cause concern.
If you are going to throw down the moral trump card as a route to show the lack of worth of a given piece of product, it would help to be honest and/or correct in one's statements.
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#959735 - 05/07/01 02:26 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Moronix
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I'm really glad that I don't have TV at home. My daughter listens to this stuff too.
Robert Morin
Still at Alesis
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#959736 - 05/07/01 02:26 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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KHAN
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>>>Topic: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
--------------------------------------------
Craig, welcome to my nightmare. I've found that Whiskey helps a little.
 ... ... ... ... ...
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#959737 - 05/07/01 02:42 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Bobro
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What bothers me is the "mediumness" of it all.
Take a look at the guys- nice looking young men. I'd hire them in a minute if I owned a 7-11.
Now take a look at Miles Davis- that guy is fucking BEAUTIFUL.
Someone always comes up with "the Beatles were a Boy Band".
Yeah right. They weren't "medium"- they were attractive principally because of CHARACTER, they wrote their own songs, damn it.
Take a look at dancing- the Boys can dance okay!
Fred Astaire danced like a god.
In the end effect, popular music aimed at the young female market promotes an Assistant Manager at an OK restaurant as the male ideal- conform and consume!
Better than average, but not too good. Safe. Medium.
Phooey.
-CB
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#959738 - 05/07/01 02:53 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Anonymous
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Going back in Rock history, I would compare current "boy bands" much more to the "teen idols" of the early '60s than to the Beatles. The Fabians, Bobby Vee's, Bobby Rydells, etc. superficially looked like the true Rock 'n Rollers of the '50s, but they were clean, safe and not-too-over-the-top (compared to Jerry Lee Lewis or Little Richard!). It was, in fact, The Beatles who SAVED us from the manufactured teen idol, "boy-band" equivalents of that day.
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#959739 - 05/07/01 02:57 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Bobro
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Originally posted by mixville@snet.net:
Going back in Rock history, I would compare current "boy bands" much more to the "teen idols" of the early '60s than to the Beatles. The Fabians, Bobby Vee's, Bobby Rydells, etc. superficially looked like the true Rock 'n Rollers of the '50s, but they were clean, safe and not-too-over-the-top (compared to Jerry Lee Lewis or Little Richard!). It was, in fact, The Beatles who SAVED us from the manufactured teen idol, "boy-band" equivalents of that day.
Fabians, Bobby Vee's, Bobby Rydells- I've got some gray hair kicking in, and I never heard of these guys.
Guess there's nothing to worry about.
-CB
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#959740 - 05/07/01 03:22 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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d gauss
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<>
single britney video? ok, true enough, i got my names confused but according to his website, he also directed "mandy moore", boy band "LFO", and backstreet boy's little sister "leslie carter" videos too (as well as tons of rap and metal videos--outcast, orgy, etc). and britney was kinda forced to stop working with him once his past came out.
<>
surely no moral trump card was being thrown down by me. merely an interesting ironic tidbit. i happen to own a copy of "new wave hookers," probably the dark brothers' most famous porn film. has a great theme song!
-d. gauss
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#959741 - 05/07/01 03:37 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Originally posted by Anderton:
I also noticed that on Nickelodeon, there is SATURATION advertising of "Now that's what I call music." I mean like every few minutes! It's obvious that this music is being marketed only to teens and sub-teens.
And Nickelodeon is owned by...(drum roll please)...MTV.
Go figure.
- Jeff
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#959742 - 05/07/01 04:41 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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alphajerk
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dont forget NOW THATS WHAT I CALL [CRAP] VOL 6 is number 3 on the charts behind janet jacksons new on and some other shitty music i forgot what it was. billboard is a chart filled with SHIT right now.
i cant believe you have never seen this craig. is quite disturbing, where is the v-chip when you need it? my kid is going to be the cool one at school who makes fun of those corporate pop bands. whatever brittany is around i will make him a "brittany sucks dick" shirt to wear to school.
oh the irony of a porn director doing the videos, thats what they are... kiddie porn. i always thought brittany and christina, vit c, mandy moore missed their REAL calling as porn stars. its what they really are, they could star with the backstreet boys [no,. that would be gay porn] and n'suck.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#959743 - 05/07/01 06:17 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Philip O'Keefe
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Originally posted by Bobro:
What bothers me is the "mediumness" of it all.
Take a look at dancing- the Boys can dance okay!
Fred Astaire danced like a god.
In the end effect, popular music aimed at the young female market promotes an Assistant Manager at an OK restaurant as the male ideal- conform and consume!
Better than average, but not too good. Safe. Medium.
Phooey.
-CB
Me personally, I prefer Gene Kelly, but then again, I'm partial to Micks. He just seemed a little more "manly" while still being graceful.
Well, I guess the shoe's on the other foot now. For years Females have been force fed images of what society considers to be "acceptable" appearance, and the Barbie doll ideal that they had to strive for. What did we end up with? Bullemic and Anorexic girls frustrated because they couldn't live up to what society wanted them to be. Now it's the guys who are the target too. If you're not "pretty enough" (female - and now male too) then you're made to feel worthless in this society. What a fat load of garbage!
I'd like to see more talented stars, even if they're fat and / or ugly.
Phil O'Keefe
Sound Sanctuary Recording
Riverside CA
http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html
pokeefe777@msn.com
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#959744 - 05/07/01 06:42 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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gearmike
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STRIVE FOR MEDIOCRITY!!
I'm mixing a live rock album right now and the guitar player's 3 year old daughter came up and informed me that "Britney Spears sucks!"
Looks like all is not lost yet.
-Mike
_________________________
Seriously, what the f*ck with the candles? Where does this candle impulse come from, and in what other profession does it get expressed?
-steve albini
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#959745 - 05/07/01 06:56 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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robb.
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Originally posted by Anderton:
The good news, I guess, is that at least kids are being turned on to music, and as they mature, hopefully their musical tastes will too.
yeah, 'cuz all those "80s lunch hour" radio shows are just an aberration, and not the same kids from fifteen years ago, now grown up and working.
i wish i could share your optimish, craig, but i just don't see the silver lining in this cloud. i just see a bad precedent for bad music with no thought or emotion behind it.
_________________________
6053, a journey to the 2008 detroit marathon.
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#959746 - 05/07/01 07:05 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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robb.
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Originally posted by Lee Flier:
Yeah it's all about "the total package" and the music is completely secondary. Kids are learning to expect music to be a "spectacle" and unless they have parents or teachers who actively expose them to different stuff, it will be hard for them to ever appreciate musical subtlety.
it's not just the kids. i know a college student who went to see a cher concert. she said it was like watching a circus when asked about the music. it doesn't even matter if she sang or if there was a band behind her. there was enough visual distraction that the music didn't even matter anymore.
and it's not just crap-pop. limp bizkit came out of a toilet at woodstock (fucking woodstock, man. c'mon...), sugar ray played basketball on stage with a full bar.
of course, since when was it only about the music with pink floyd? the difference being that pink floyd could always stand on their own musically...in the dark with a little incense and what have you....
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6053, a journey to the 2008 detroit marathon.
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#959748 - 05/07/01 10:48 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Nawor
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What was the name of that ex-porn star that had a pretty big single out about ten or so years ago. She had a wicked mic technique.
Britany's just heading in the other direction, that's all. After all you shouldn't stop a young developing talent from finding her true niche in life. I just hope she can act better than she can lipsync.
"OOOOH BABY... GIVE IT TO ME!... DEEPER!... DEEPER!.. OH YEAH!... OH YEAH BABY!!!"
Hmmmmm... now what key was that in? And how many beats per.... er that's enough. I'm outta here!
_________________________
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#959750 - 05/07/01 11:13 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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joseph@andrews.edu
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wow.
Rowan, if only. hee hee hee hee.
Britney is Awesome!!!
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#959751 - 05/08/01 12:11 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Graham English
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Britney- I can't stop looking at her. And I'd even tell her she sounded good just to get her to like me.
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#959752 - 05/08/01 12:30 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Anderton
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>>of course, since when was it only about the music with pink floyd? the difference being that pink floyd could always stand on their own musically...in the dark with a little incense and what have you.... <<
I can vouch for that. My band opened for them once at a stadium in Philadelphia in their pre-"Dark Side of the Moon" days, and it was just four guys with an underpowered sound system. They still rocked the place. They don't need no stinkin' pigs...but it seems the public does .
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#959753 - 05/08/01 02:38 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Chip McDonald
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Originally posted by Anderton:
[Bfour guys with an underpowered sound system. They still rocked the place. They don't need no stinkin' pigs...but it seems the public does .[/B]
I'd much prefer to hear them in a small club with minimal production... Force Gilmour to come up with some non-standard bluesy sounding progressions, make him play with just one amp....
It occurs to me I'm telegraphing my punch on the music I'm working on in these forums.....
http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald
_________________________
www.chipmcdonald.com (tagline inlieu of having a representational page of downloadable music for the moment...) / "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien
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#959754 - 05/08/01 04:10 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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trick fall
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I'd still rather listen to Brittney, NSYNC whatever than Creed!
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#959755 - 05/08/01 04:48 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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d gauss
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<>
LOL! ain't that the awful truth. creed makes U2's posing seem like a fratboy party band. lighten up guys, or else go all the way and crucify yourselves!
-d. gauss
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#959756 - 05/08/01 05:00 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Bobro
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Originally posted by trickfall@yahoo.com:
I'd still rather listen to Brittney, NSYNC whatever than Creed!
Real fake is better than fake real.
Another thing that irks me is that the blandness is often seen as a necessary factor in recouping huge investments. But big money doesn't have to equal sonic Big Macs- reading up on Stevie Wonder, I see that Innervisions was a 13 million dollar project, which would be even more in today's money.
What gives me hope is that my sister's two-year-old son Angus listens to Wagner, the heavier the better. He's very choosey about his music, and his tastes are often different than his parents'. The heavier Led Zep and more sombre Johnny Cash are also to his taste. "Lite" music gets the connoiseur's critical judgement- "turn off!"
Maybe the fact that he was named after Angus Young has something to do with it. Marty Robbins fans will figure out why his sister is named "Felina".
Wonder if there are any kids being named "Tafka" in honor of Prince?
-CB
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#959757 - 05/08/01 05:30 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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Alndln
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Originally posted by d gauss:
<>
LOL! ain't that the awful truth. creed makes U2's posing seem like a fratboy party band. lighten up guys, or else go all the way and crucify yourselves!
-d. gauss
_________________________
"A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows"
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#959758 - 05/08/01 06:42 AM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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spacebass_dup1
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i think visuals are key but it should only enhance the music.
my kid (as was i when i was his age...5)
is in to kiss.
him and the wife got to see them on their last tour and he was
freaked..."dada simmons spits blood and fire!"
he also sings britney...but with a twist "oops i farted again"
as a parent i think it is a duty to raise these kids right.....jam zepplin or deep chicago house and tell them why that rocks and why the latest auto tune "jam" of the week is weak!
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#959759 - 05/08/01 12:13 PM
Re: Boy Bands: Okay, Now I Understand the Rancor...
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d gauss
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<>
i was referring to creed, not you. rant all you want!
-d. gauss
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