#945525 - 07/30/00 12:45 AM
Synth textures in a mix
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Sergievsky
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Registered: 03/26/00
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Loc: Manila, Philippines
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How can I get the synth pads/sweeps/textures I would like to use to sound good in a mix? It seems they always get eq'd to death because of the more "important" guitar tracks. I'm sick and tired of having to lay in these sounds and then never hearing the subtleties that made me use them in the first place.
I understand you have to make room in a mix, and overlapping frequencies is unavoidable. But they're ALWAYS buried under guitar, and usually ends up in mono. Yeah, they can be heard, with a good engineer, but my arrangements live and die with the sounds I use, and if it's just the resonant frequency that is heard in the mix, it just doesn't work for me.
I'm not talking about new age music either, but mainstream pop. The guitars need to be there, as well as the other acoustics, but I want my synths to sound like they sound on their own. I suppose it needs to be done at the source, the arrangement, because if not then it's just eq at the mix.
Any suggestions? Did I drag this out too long?
_________________________
Raul
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#945526 - 07/30/00 01:06 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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THE MIX FIX
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Originally posted by Sergievsky:
I suppose it needs to be done at the source, the arrangement, because if not then it's just eq at the mix.
Yup.
Sounds like the arrangement, or voicings, to me.
If you have a raunchy rhythm guitar, then double it, then add another clean rhythm, and double THAT (of course ALL of these are playing the same chord in the same position), then add a synth pad, and double THAT with the same voicings, HOW do you expect to hear them ALL individually?
Why not try not using as many doubles, and voicing the instruments in other positions, as well? And panning them in the mix, can help, too.
THEN, with EQ, and a good engineer, if the arrangement is done well, the mix should come easily. 
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Bob.
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#945527 - 08/01/00 01:19 AM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Jon Atack
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Registered: 04/22/00
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Loc: Paris, France
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Bag the cheesy onboard fake-stereo synth verbs/choruses/echos. Give your engineer the dry mono sound to work with. He'll better be able to respect your sound and place it properly in the mix, with quality effects, if you don't give him the huge fake-stereoed effect that only sounds like big mono in a mix.
If you're doing more acoustic-sounding music (as opposed to dance, techno, R&B), send the mono signal out to an amp and record it with both close mics and room mics. You'll usually get a more organic sound that fits better into the mix and sounds more real. And/or record it to analog tape. To cohabite nicely with guitars, sometimes the synth sound does need to be made more organic-sounding.
The most common EQ I apply to synths in a busy mix are high-pass filters, and sometimes low-pass ones too. Many synth sounds are just too full and big and sparkly clean and artificial to fit into a mix of otherwise acoustic instruments.
Or maybe you need to do all-synth music...then your patchs will not be inhibited by the need to live with acoustic instruments.
Jon
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#945528 - 08/01/00 05:55 AM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Anderton
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Another possible problem is that these instruments are all fighting for the midrange. When that happens, one good EQ fix is to dip the midrange on one of the combatants, and dip the highs and lows from the other.
Another issue: Distorted guitars generate a lot of highs. Normally the natural bandpass action of a 12" speaker in a cabinet tames the sound, but with more people recording direct, the guitars might be hogging the upper midrange. Try pushing the synths a little higher in frequency content and the guitars a little lower, and see what happens.
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#945529 - 08/01/00 11:43 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Doug Robinson
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Registered: 03/22/00
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Loc: San Diego, CA
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One more suggestion: try playing your pads spread out over a couple of octaves--root the C below middle C, the 2nd above middle C, and the 5th a couple of octaves up. This has been helpful for me in these situations.
But mainly, it's a function of arranging imo. The mind can only focus on 3 things at a time in my experience--I'm listening to a blues Cd right now, and even though I can hear everything at once, it's hard to select more than the vocal, the bass drum and the rhythm guitar at once. If I try to add the organ part, one of the others drops from the picture a little.
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#945530 - 08/07/00 06:33 AM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Anderton
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Another possibility: I don't want to sound callous, but if it's a textural part, you probably don't want to hear all the subtleties. They would be more "felt" than "heard."
A lot of times one of the hardest lessons to learn when mixing is to let a really cool part get buried because it's not as important to the song as some other part.
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#945532 - 08/07/00 04:25 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Sergievsky
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No, that's a GUITARIST philosophy!
NEVER!!!! I will NEVER YIELD!!!
My textures WILL rise from the MIXED ashes of the earth and devour the scourge of guitardom and SWEEP away theses assimilations by this VILE Species!!!!!!
_________________________
Raul
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#945534 - 08/07/00 06:50 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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alphajerk
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actually that is true. subtlety is best at times. having the synth texture underlying the guitar is sometimes better IMO than double tracking the guitar. i have built up HUGE backgrounds that arent really heard per se but if you took them out, you would definately know its missing.
and the parts you really want the synth part known, drop the guitar some.
_________________________
alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson
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#945535 - 08/08/00 01:01 AM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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THE MIX FIX
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Framus:
They used to make good basses, too.
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Bob.
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#945536 - 08/08/00 08:29 AM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Anderton
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>>Uh Oh!! THAT sounds like an MP3 philosophy, to me!! EVERYTHING I track is important, or I don't think it should be tracked, at all!! <<
But that doesn't mean everything has to be tracked at equal volume. Some parts are meant to be supportive, it's an arranging philosophy. BTW I use guitars for background all the time to beef up synths, not just the other way around!!
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#945537 - 08/08/00 03:54 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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THE MIX FIX
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Originally posted by Anderton:
But that doesn't mean everything has to be tracked at equal volume. Some parts are meant to be supportive, it's an arranging philosophy. BTW I use guitars for background all the time to beef up synths, not just the other way around!!
Everything should ALWAYS be tracked at the HIGHEST level at which it can be recorded.
Maybe you want to MIX them at different levels.... 
BUT, I STILL want to hear EVERY part I put down, if I concentrate on it. Even if it "Blends In" or "Supports" another sound, I think it should have a space of it's own, and be able to be heard and "picked out" of the mix.
I guess I just don't like that Phil Spector, "Wall of Sound", 20 rhythm guitars, and 10 pianos-type sound. 
By the way, Craig, HOW do you get the italics to stay. 
When I copy the text to an Email program, for spell checking, etc., the BOLDS or italics just won't translate to this software.
Oh well... 
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Bob.
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#945538 - 08/08/00 03:59 PM
Re: Synth textures in a mix
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Uh Clem
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it's all in the hidden code
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