#944245 - 05/12/00 01:22 AM
budget preamps
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jdf2f@aol.com
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Registered: 05/11/00
Posts: 3
Loc: Murfreesboro,TN,US
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Is there a mic preamp that has the bang-for-your-buck equivalance to the RNC compressor?
Even one that colors a bit. There are so many, from the $100 ART to Presonus, or Joe Meek, or do you really have to spend some bucks to get a decent pre?
Anybody have specs for building one?
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#944246 - 05/12/00 03:38 PM
Re: budget preamps
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Dembones_dup1
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Registered: 02/11/01
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Loc: Medford,OR,UNITED STATES
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This is a VERY embarassing confession, but I'll fess up. I was looking for a small mixer for my home studio, along with an outboard 2-channel mic-pre. The mixer was ONLY going to be used for playback monitoring and sequenced parts. I had no intention of running ANY audio through the board TO tape (or PC, rather)
I decided on the newest Mackie 1202VLZ-Pro, which touts super-duper, mega-improved mic preamps that they spent $250k on R&D etc... I hadn't yet decided on the preamps, so I had an inkling to take the Mackie to the studio where I work and do a blind shootout. The shootout was between the Mackie, an Allen & Heath GS3000, and an ART Tube MP that I use for bass. Granted the Allen & Heath isn't quite one of the big boys, but is is very respectable sounding for an analog mid-sized desk.
ANYWAY, in a grueling blind listening test to an acoustic guitar and voice recorded from identical Shure KSM32s from 3' away, I was a little surprised at the results. Two engineers absolutly could not tell the difference between the Allen & Heath and the Mackie, with one exception when someone said the Mackie was a tinge brighter. The ART was consistently darker and thicker in the low-mids, and there was no mistaking when the ART was the test subject.
I didn't have time to compare triangles or transient response, but I was sold enough on the Mackie for the material I do. It's preamps sounded every bit as good as our $7k Allen & Heath. Mackie has always been functional and reliable, but never what I would consider to be really *good* sounding until now.
For bang-for-the-buck, the Mackie was $350 for four mic-preamps. If you look at them, make sure you're looking at the "PRO" versions with the XDR pramps.Anyway, I hope this helps.
Demian Norvell
AppleSeed Studios
Ruch, OR
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#944247 - 05/17/00 04:31 AM
Re: budget preamps
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3D Audio
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 1032
Loc: Franklin, TN, US
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If you want to hear lots of preamps, then you need to check out the 3D Audio Preamp CD, the 3D Pre CD. 33 Preamps ($75,000 worth) all recorded with two acoustic sources, female voice and acoustic guitar. For more info, check at http://www.3daudioinc.com.
Lynn Fuston
3D Audio Inc
Music Mixing and Mastering
On a scenic hilltop outside of historic
Franklin, Tennessee http://www.3daudioinc.com
email:go3daudio@aol.com
_________________________
Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc Home of 3dB
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#944248 - 05/17/00 11:54 AM
Re: budget preamps
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jdf2f@aol.com
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Loc: Murfreesboro,TN,US
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I e-mailed you about the preamp cd. You said you would notify me when the cd came out. I've heard nothing since.
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#944249 - 05/18/00 04:40 AM
Re: budget preamps
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3D Audio
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 1032
Loc: Franklin, TN, US
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So sorry.
Between hosting the event, editing it, getting 25 preamps boxed up and back in the mail, getting the artwork designed and finalized and getting the manufacturing done, and also trying to keep over 300 people who've expressed interest in it up to date, your name obviously didn't make it into the right email address folder. It is now though.
The 3D Pre CD is done (at least Volume 1) and is shipping now. It features 33 preamps and you won't believe your ears. You should read what people are saying. You can get more details at http://www.3daudioinc.com.
Also be watching for stories in this month's ProSound News, EQ Magazine, and Audio Media. If you want to find out all about it though, including how to order, go to the web site, 3daudioinc.com.
Lynn Fuston
3D Audio Inc
Music Mixing and Mastering
On a scenic hilltop outside of historic
Franklin, Tennessee http://www.3daudioinc.com
email:go3daudio@aol.com
_________________________
Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc Home of 3dB
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#944250 - 05/18/00 02:14 PM
Re: budget preamps
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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What?? You mean you didn't get to keep the pre's??
Rich...
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#944251 - 05/18/00 07:42 PM
Re: budget preamps
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Anderton
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Registered: 01/28/00
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Originally posted by Richard V. Wielgosz:
What?? You mean you didn't get to keep the pre's??
Rich...
You mean there are still people who think that reviewers get to keep the gear they review?
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#944252 - 05/18/00 11:03 PM
Re: budget preamps
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jdf2f@aol.com
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Posts: 3
Loc: Murfreesboro,TN,US
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Um, guys, I was hoping for some advice on budget preamps! Thanks,
Jason
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#944253 - 05/19/00 02:39 AM
Re: budget preamps
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Anonymous
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[ Anderton wrote: ]
[[ You mean there are still people who think that reviewers get to keep the gear, they review? ]]
I was kidding.  This is the 2nd time you missed my sarcasm. I guess it's not obvious unless you're hearing my tone of voice. It's just that I HATE those damn smileys. The other time was when I asked the rhetorical question about a canadian style health care system.
Regarding budget pre-amps. I had the opportunity to use one of those ART Pro MPA's (I think that's what it was called) and I thought it sounded good. Especially at that price. As I recall though, it was one channel and might have been 3 rack-spaces high. So it does use a lot of real estate for one pre. But the price was right.
Rich...
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#944254 - 05/19/00 06:19 AM
Re: budget preamps
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Anderton
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Originally posted by Richard V. Wielgosz: [ Anderton wrote: ]
[[ You mean there are still people who think that reviewers get to keep the gear, they review? ]]
I was kidding. This is the 2nd time you missed my sarcasm. I guess it's not obvious unless you're hearing my tone of voice. It's just that I HATE those damn smileys
Actually, I don't like smilies too much either, so I use -- a hangover, I guess, from being online before smilies were invented. So I knew you were kidding, so I put the on there to indicate humor...I know humor doesn't translate well in print, but this is ridiculous!
BTW people really love the ARTs for the price, but of course, it hns its own character. Speaking of which...I wonder how much of a mic preamp's "Sound" depends upon factors like the inductance of the microphone (if it's magnetic?). In other words, could a preamp give a different "sound" depending on what's plugged in to them? Lynn, did you check that out in your preamp test?
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#944255 - 05/19/00 03:44 PM
Re: budget preamps
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makai@pesteredmystic.com
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Registered: 05/17/00
Posts: 14
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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Jason,
Im a relative newbie to recording, but I have had good success with the ART MP-1 on guitars [both electric & acoustic]($100)
I dont particularly like it for vocals, but its good for cedar flutes (mic dependent of course)
And for synths Im partial to my ADA MP-1 guitar preamp.(cheap $ used, check EBAY)
However limited my experience perhaps these suggestions will help.
D Makai
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#944256 - 05/19/00 06:50 PM
Re: budget preamps
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Dylan
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Registered: 02/28/00
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You guys might want to check out the new Presonus Blue Tube Mic Pre at http://www.presonus.com/PreSonus__Products/PreSonus__BlueTube/presonus_bluetube.html. It looks like a helluva deal at under $200 for 2 tube mic pre's. I'm thinking about using it with an RNC. I've got a feeling that it should be less 'colored' sounding than the A.R.T. stuff.
Best regards,
Dylan
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#944257 - 05/21/00 03:50 AM
Re: budget preamps
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3D Audio
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 1032
Loc: Franklin, TN, US
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Anderton wrote:
BTW people really love the ARTs for the price, but of course, it hns its
own character. Speaking of which...I wonder how much of a mic preamp's
"Sound" depends upon factors like the inductance of the microphone (if
it's magnetic?). In other words, could a preamp give a different "sound"
depending on what's plugged in to them? Lynn, did you check that out in
your preamp test?
**************
Funny you should mention that. I was talking to Tom Holman (the TH in THX) just yesterday evening here at the Spars E-Studio Summit and he asked if we had done any impedance load testing. He had done some testing of impedance loading in mics some years ago, just charting the interactions between pres and mics without listening to them at all. My test, on the other hand, was strictly listening and our listening schedule was so intense that we had no time for any other testing.
Yes, it is true that impedance loading affects the sound of a certain mic plugged into a certain preamp, but that will always be the case. The only provision I made for allowing for those differences was by using a wide range of microphones, from a Manley Gold to a C-414, and an AT 4033, KM-84 and an SM-57. I suspect that variety of mics probably covered a gamut of impedance sources. I agree that the impedance matching will make a difference. But this CD will show you how big a difference you might expect with the same mic, regardless of output impedance, plugged into a variety of preamps.
Lynn Fuston
3D Audio Inc
Music Mixing and Mastering
On a scenic hilltop outside of historic
Franklin, Tennessee
http://www.3daudioinc.com
email:go3daudio@aol.com
_________________________
Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc Home of 3dB
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#944258 - 05/23/00 03:28 AM
Re: budget preamps
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Anderton
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One other thing about preamps...
You can "warm up" the sound of just about anything by throwing a transformer in there. The inductance often adds a midrange ringing that gives a sense of "warmth." This is a coloration, but one that many people, particularly on drums and electric guitar.
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#944259 - 05/23/00 04:40 AM
Re: budget preamps
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yeah, I hate those people. The ones that ...(?)... for no good reason.
Rich...
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