#9334 - 09/26/01 02:56 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Originally posted by fantasticsound:
No... you don't deal with this all the time! You would compare, "Tascam sucks!", "____'s recorder blows your away!" to "Phil Collins, the music you were inspired to create and record sucks!" What kind of robot are you? I don't remember the test of harm to another being whether you would care if it were you being attacked, in similar circumstances.
Interestingly enough, I *have* been attacked in that way (actually, a lot, lot worse) when I used to have a message board on my video game site . (Note that the key words in the previous sentence are "used to"  ). While my game has received positive reviews from reviewers, I've occasionally seen very hateful comments by some folks on other video game message boards who said stuff that... isn't appropriate for a family-oriented music forum. 
I was kinda shocked the first time I saw the comments -- "Geez, this guy doesn't even know me and he's saying this... I worked my a** off for two and a half years trying to make a decent game by myself -- I'd like to see that jerk try to do the same thing"...
But then I realized that, if you're a bullfighter, there comes a time when you get into the ring. Phil Collins has been in the ring for quite a while, and I'm sure he's heard much worse than folks saying he or his music "sucks" (a word which used to carry a lot more weight until Beavis and Butthead dulled the impact of it).
That said, I don't think it's professional to dismiss another artist's work if they *have* done (in your mind) some good stuff. I mean, you never know who is reading (or who may read in the future) the things we post. Phil Collins himself? Sure -- that's entirely possible when you consider some of the engineering/production heavyweights who hang out at these forums.
Whatever you think of his current output, most folks probably would agree Phil Collins has written some great pop songs in the past. I wouldn't dismiss him outright like I might Yanni, Kenny G, or N'Sync. (Although I'm sure others will disagree with me about that, but hey -- this is all subjective.) If you don't like his songs, at the very least, you gotta admit he's a great drummer (as the original post said) even though he doesn't really showcase that side of himself much anymore...
*BUT*... What's important to consider is that we've all been under a lot of tension lately with the WTC thing, talk of a war, friends who were affected by the events... Although we're having a little bit of fun at the expense of one of our own, it's one way to let off some steam and get our lives back to "normal".
By the way, KORN RULES!!!
This message has been edited by popmusic on 09-26-2001 at 09:19 AM
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#9335 - 09/26/01 12:00 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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offramp
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dgauss: I felt the same way about Carl "Bring Your Metronomes!" Palmer. Interesting that Phil would verbalize that, too.
mzeger, I put Metheny in that list because he DOES draw that kind of response from his demographics; it's not unlike (and I can't believe I'm using this comparison) the Grateful Dead (whom I loathe but the fan base is the comparison, here). He toured almost constantly, until his son was born; he also does significant soundtrack work and always has a project going. Steve Rodby (bassist) calls him 'compulsively productive'. I'll wager that that compulsive productivity compensates for the quantitative lack of hype as seen from Mr. Gorlick and other members of the Bland Illusion.
Now, back to Phil...
I still like Phil. Just tired of his current phase, the "Elton's movie gig doesn't sound like a bad idea" thing. I'll give him advance credit for recharging his career soon, especially since our business runs in cycles, we're probably due for another round of our preferred tastes in a coupla years. In Phil's case, I hope he forgoes the gated drum sound that launched his solo work for something a little more subdued.
Oh, I just remembered another song of his that I liked; it was the last cut on an album--don't know which one--about moving, moving from one house to another, one phase of your life to another, the verses ended with the line 'it's the only way'. Anyone remember that?
(vlad: 'Fading Lights, I liked alot, too. Big, spacious, airy...)
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#9336 - 09/26/01 02:04 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Lee Flier
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Originally posted by d gauss:
to see an excellent answer to the "phil collins sucks" question as well as many others (i.e. billy joel, john tesh, CATS the musical, and kenny G.), check out the following book:
Red Lobster, White Trash, and the Blue Lagoon : Joe Queenan's America
by Joe Queenan
the funniest book i have ever read on popular culture. (though admittedly not very funny if you like any of the above mentioned)
LOL d gauss that is one of my fave books also! I laughed my ass off through the whole thing!
The only place where I had to disagree with Queenan is that he concluded that Billy Joel sucks worse than Phil. Now, Billy Joel sucks, I'll grant you, and he sucks real bad, but I don't think he is quite in Phil's league.
But that's a minor quibble in the scheme of things. All in all, the book is a masterpiece!
--Lee
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#9337 - 09/26/01 02:23 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Originally posted by fantasticsound:
No... you don't deal with this all the time! You would compare, "Tascam sucks!", "____'s recorder blows your away!" to "Phil Collins, the music you were inspired to create and record sucks!"
YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!! As a professional musician, audio engineer, record producer, advertising designer, web designer, a businessman, a daddy and any of the other 1,000 hats I've worn and continue to wear, I can tell you that music holds no exaulted place in the various worlds of creativity. Whether your creative outlet is making records or designing gear, the way you choose to accept criticism is the same. I have no choice other than to be thick-skinned...every time I've made an ad, for example, I have at least half the people I know tell me everything they think is wrong with it. Personally, if everyone liked the ad, I'd know right away that it was too safe and plain to be an effective ad, and I'd throw it away and start over.
Criticism is good. How else is Phil supposed to realize that a certain percentage of people miss his older, experimental, progressive self? My God...he could be walking around, totally unaware that he sucks! How sad would that be? 
What kind of robot are you?
General Robotics Cyborg Model 74832-B, Marketing Weasel (Luxury Edition)
Just don't fool yourself into believing it's ok to say it here rather than to Phil's face.
I never said I wouldn't say it to Phil! I get to talk to famous people all the time. I've become totally desensitized to the "star factor". When I've spoken with people about whom I feel similar to Phil and they've asked me how I liked their new stuff, I do not say "You suck" because I'm basically a nice guy...but I do tell them that personally, I prefer their older stuff.
Freddy Mercury said to Michael Jackson one time, "Rock and roll is a man's sport." He didn't mean that in the sexist way...he meant that you have to be a tough bastard to take the opinions of millions of people in regard to subjective opinions that can't be quantified. Once again, Phil doesn't give a flying fuck about my opinion of his newer music. I'm just a guy. One person. In fact, knowing that Collins enjoys practical jokes and generally having fun and being silly, I think he'd really like the original spirit of this thread.
You know what? Just for fun, I should try and contact Phil and see what he really does think. Wish me luck.
- Jeff
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#9339 - 09/26/01 02:35 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Jeff (Tascam Guy), you might want to quit while you're ahead...
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#9340 - 09/26/01 03:34 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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inadequate.com
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Originally posted by Anderton:
Has anyone else noticed how often the "cat vomit" thread and the "Phil sucks" thread end up next to each other? Perhaps we could save some space by consolidating them into a single thread, titled "Does Phil Collins suck cat vomit?"
Phil Collins vomited on my gear
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#9341 - 09/27/01 04:02 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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offramp
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Phil Collins' cat is geared to vomit.
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#9342 - 09/27/01 04:54 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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TinderArts
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Little known fact -
Monty Python's Mr. Creosote was a Phil Collins fan (bring me a bucket)
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#9343 - 09/27/01 08:20 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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offramp
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...and his vomit was wafer-thin!
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#9344 - 09/27/01 09:41 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Anderton
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Okay, I just couldn't resist adding a post to bring this thread to 100.
Besides, I'm sure you've seen my post in the thread "Phil Collins is my president!" where I expose the Collins - Cheney connection. So frankly, there is no Phil Collins, making this whole thread an exercise in futility anyway.
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#9345 - 09/27/01 11:52 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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joegerardi
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Maybe this will put an end to it:
15 Minutes.
(But he was young and needed the money...)
(Not that I was THERE, mind you...)
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#9346 - 09/28/01 05:11 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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dansouth
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I'm sure that Phil experimented with all of the classic drum machines, but he DEFINITELY used the 808 on Face Value and No Jacket Required. I remember reading articles in the 80's that touched on his talent for getting compelling beats out of a box that the whole world thought was a toy at the time. Now people pay more for 808's, 909's, and 303's than they LISTED for in the 80's. Phil Collins, techno visionary!!
...
Jeff, no matter how much I disliked anything you or your company ever did, I would never say that you sucked. Ever. To anyone. What's the use of such a general an inaccurate insult, anyway. I adds nothing to the dialog. I might say (just examples for the purpose of illustration, not real complaint aimed at Jeff, folks), "Man, that Jeff just annoys the hell out of me! His gung ho attitude really rubs me the wrong way! I hate it when his company doesn't ship products on time! There's no WAY I'm going to spend that much on Product X! I hate guys who show off their guitar technique when they solo! etc." But I would NEVER play the "suck" card. Never, ever. I hope that the difference is clear.
P.S. For the record, most of the T----- gear I've owned has worked brilliantly. I learned the basics of multitrack recording on a 244 Portastudio, thanks in no small part to the excellent instructions in its manual, and the DA-38 (far superior to its nearest competitor) was my introduction to digital multitracking. Definitely no sucking here!
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#9347 - 09/28/01 12:30 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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soapbox
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Originally posted by Anderton:
Okay, I just couldn't resist adding a post to bring this thread to 100.
But this thread goes to eleven!
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#9348 - 09/28/01 01:56 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Lee Flier
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Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:
Jeff, no matter how much I disliked anything you or your company ever did, I would never say that you sucked. Ever. To anyone. What's the use of such a general an inaccurate insult, anyway. I adds nothing to the dialog. I might say (just examples for the purpose of illustration, not real complaint aimed at Jeff, folks), "Man, that Jeff just annoys the hell out of me! His gung ho attitude really rubs me the wrong way! I hate it when his company doesn't ship products on time! There's no WAY I'm going to spend that much on Product X! I hate guys who show off their guitar technique when they solo! etc." But I would NEVER play the "suck" card. Never, ever. I hope that the difference is clear.
Not really. In my experience and in my own personal usage, when people say "suck" it's just humor, because it's just a funny sounding word, and I think you're reading way too much into what is meant by it. All this politically correct stuff about what words you can use and not use is really getting on my nerves - it makes it almost impossible to just make a joke anymore without somebody getting all bent out of shape and saying "You can't say that!" Like when the word "Nazi" was used in jest on another thread... sheesh. And I must say I'm really surprised and disappointed to find that kind of attitude on a forum full of musicians, whom I normally find funny, tolerant and anxious to push the envelope of what is "acceptable".
--Lee
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#9349 - 09/28/01 02:04 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Jeff Klopmeyer
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Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:
Jeff, no matter how much I disliked anything you or your company ever did, I would never say that you sucked. Ever. To anyone. ...For the record, most of the T----- gear I've owned has worked brilliantly.
You are a gentleman and a scholar, friend Dan. I just think sometimes it's okay to throw insults for fun, and people who don't seem to take themselves too seriously (which is a category that I believe our pal Phil Collins fits into well) aren't hurt by them.
I am actually guilty of saying "you suck" to most of my friends, fellow musicians, my staff at TASCAM and anyone else who happens to be around me when I'm in a certain mood. I think that this is one of those cases that vocal inflection and facial expression aren't conveyed by words on a screen in your browser window. If I were any better than most other half-assed hack writers, I could probably make this clearer, but as it is, you'll have to take my word for it.
Hey Phil Collins...you don't suck. Your last couple albums did, though. Hee-hee-hee....
- Jeff
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#9350 - 09/28/01 04:12 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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dansouth
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Originally posted by Jeff, TASCAM Guy:
Hey Phil Collins...you don't suck. Your last couple albums did, though. Hee-hee-hee....
- Jeff
Better! And I'd probably agree, but I didn't waste time or money buying these disks. In fact, I've heard so little about the guy that I thought he had essentially retired.
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#9351 - 09/28/01 04:17 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Y'know, I was in a used CD shop the other day, and found myself staring at a "No Jacket Required" CD for five bucks...
Normally I would've passed over it without a second thought, but, believe it or not, this thread made me actually consider buying the dang thing. (I didn't, but I still might...)
What's the saying -- Any publicity is good publicity?
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#9352 - 10/02/01 03:05 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Master Zap
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The apes find the camp and wreck it. Phil gets to build a rhythm bed from the crashes of pots and pans. Yummy. But instead of the sophisticated, catchy rhythm beds he did for Genesis and in songs like "Please take me home", all he contributes is a bouncy, child-like piece of writing that just doesn't hook you in
...and just how horribly, horribly TRITE this bit is I didnt quite realize until I just viewed "Joes Apartment" and heard "funky towel".
Those of you who seen that movie and saw the cockroaches do that track.. WHOAH. THATS how you make music out of household items!!
/Z
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#9353 - 10/02/01 03:25 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Gulliver
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Originally posted by popmusic:
Y'know, I was in a used CD shop the other day, and found myself staring at a "No Jacket Required" CD for five bucks...
Normally I would've passed over it without a second thought, but, believe it or not, this thread made me actually consider buying the dang thing.
(I didn't, but I still might...)
Just do it, ma-a-an! This album is still better than much of today's pop-crap out there!
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#9354 - 10/03/01 01:42 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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sidereal
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I think the notion that Phil Collins sucks began around the time that you all starting copping the attitude that you know better than him what he should do in his career. It's not for you to decide. hey, the guy writes songs... 5% of them are total crap and have saturated your subconscious, so you're pissed off. That's your problem.
To me, the drumming he did thoughout his career as a member of Genesis and others, helping to create THE single identifiable drum sound of the 80s (for better or worse), writing hit song after hit song, stepping out from behind the drums and having the balls to replace a beloved singer, continuing to track some excellent sessions in the 90s (check out Tears For Fears' "Women in Chains"), winning all kinds of awards, and being an overall humble dude .... is all pretty admirable in my book.
Having said that.... I love the Phil Collins South Park episode. Brilliant stuff.
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#9355 - 10/03/01 04:12 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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offramp
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HO-LEE-COW!! Sidereal comes from behind to deliver the final crushing blow in todays' match-up, with a surprise lateral and punt through the uprights and sending the challengers TO THE SHOWWWWRRRRRRRRSSS!!!!
"Hell of a game, eh Marv?"
"Without question, Bob. This'll be one for the record books, and will be a reference point for both sides in future games. It's been a tough one, but I'd think that both teams would have to agree they gave their 110%; good game on both sides."
"Indeed, but in the end, as we all know, there's only one victor, and to-day it's Team Pro-Phil."
right on.
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I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#9356 - 10/03/01 04:13 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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dansouth
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Originally posted by Gulliver:
Just do it, ma-a-an! This album is still better than much of today's pop-crap out there!
I second the motion - buy Jacket!
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#9358 - 06/28/02 07:38 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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TinderArts
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Phil, just in case you couldn't find the thread, here it is. 
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#9359 - 06/28/02 07:47 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Lee Flier
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LOL!! 
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#9360 - 06/28/02 09:32 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Gus Lozada
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Now is he going to produce electronica???
PLEASE DON'T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#9361 - 06/28/02 09:55 PM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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offramp
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Yeah, Gus...but wouldn't the drum sounds be GREAT?!?!?
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#9362 - 06/29/02 12:58 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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Dak Lander
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Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm getting in on this really late but I think he's sucked since...like...
forever!
That is one cat I just can't listen to. I'm not sure, it's a toss up, but I might like Barry Manilow better....Arghhhh!puke all over myself...
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#9363 - 06/29/02 01:23 AM
Re: How long has Phil Collins sucked?
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WFTurner
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Collin's has never been my cup of tea but I never had the desire to turn off a radio when I heard him and lots of people do like his music so there's got to be something there to learn from him.
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William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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