#881701 - 01/01/01 08:43 PM
speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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has anyone used the Cerwin Vega V-152 full range speakers? Has anyone used the EV Eliminator Double speakers? I have a problem. I just puchased 4 CV v-152 based on the fact that 2 differnt dealers have told me that the amp i have is a perfect match. The speakers are 300 watts program, 600 peak, and 150 watts rms (assuming i'm right). My amp is a Carver PT-1800 which runs at 600 watts per channel at 8 ohms, and 900 watts @ 4 ohms.
Can somoene give me feedback on these two speakers? Also, I have a pair of Cerwin Vega sl-36b on layway (subwoofer). Has anyone used these? Feedback would be good.
Thanks in advance!
-Brian
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#881702 - 01/02/01 11:56 AM
Re: speakers
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Anonymous
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While Cerwin-Vega is not my first choice for PA speakers, their 300 watt continuous/600 watt program/1200 watt peak rating matches perfectly with your Carver's 600w/ch at 8 ohms capability. The amp is a keeper for your cabinets, but do not use it for the future sub-woofers too. The rule of thumb is to take the speaker program power rating and match an amp that gets close, given the proper impedance matching.
Your layaway on subs will need a complementary sub-amp to power them and an active crossover to split the frequency range between your Cerwin-Vega top boxes and the subs. Go ahead and chase bargain used stuff or consider new. My recommendations are for QSC brand for the sub amp and an Ashley XR1001 for the active crossover.
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#881703 - 01/02/01 01:00 PM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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the speakers are rated at 300 watts program. not RMS. They're only advertised as 300 watts Program, 600 Peak. Program is rated @ 3 DB higher than the actual rms value, and what i've been told is that for every 3 db increase in sound, you need "twice" as much power. So, hence, if the speakers are 103db @ 300 watts program, wouldnt they be rated at 100db @ 150 watts CONTINIOUS?
What i had planned to do was to take 4 of these, run them on the amp, which will run 900 watts at a 4ohm load.
When I Spoke with a tech @ Cerwin Vega, he stated that the speakers are rated at approx 258 watts rms. But couldnt give me a specific number.
Now that the rms ratings have been clearly stated, should i keep these or return them and pick up a pair of Electro Voice Eliminators? (they're rated @ 600 watts rms using the EIA Standatd RS-426-A which i find very interesting. (they're more related to actual usage than just actual tesating)
Need more feedback! 
Thanks in advance.
-Brian
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#881704 - 01/02/01 06:03 PM
Re: speakers
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Anonymous
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I own the full set of EV Eliminators for your information.
Regarding the my mis-read on the Cerwin-vegas, you are right; 300 watts program tends to be 150 watt continuous. That means if you drive in stereo you have twice necessary power (600w for a 300w pgm spkr), but that is not really an evil, just be cautious when pushing the speakers hard.
On the sensitivity issue, the EV Eliminator top box has a 99dB SPL at 1 meter and 1 watt input. Since each dB watt increase means a dB SPL increase, 600 watt program rating (28dB watts) means a 127dB SPL program rating at one meter (99+28).
For each doubling of distance the SPL drops 6dB. So at 2 meters, the Eliminator does 121dB SPL; at 4 meters, 115dB SPL; and at 8 meters (26 feet), 109dB SPL. Every 10dB increment of SPL is a relative twice/half of appearent loudness.
For example 70dB SPL is a typical 3 feet two-person conversation. Rock concerts have about 90 to 120dB SPL in the audience seating areas. And 120dB SPL is the threshold of hearing discomfort (damage) for most people.
Most club rock n'roll gigs average about 90 to 110 dB SPL at the mix position (that's about 50 feet away from the stage).
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#881705 - 01/02/01 10:24 PM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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Hmm.. nice.
So, basically, i'd be much better off with the EV Eliminators? I found the specs, and they're 600 RMS @ 4ohms with an spl of 100 @ 1w/1m. I kind of want to get the max power out of my amp if possible. Like i posted earlier, it's a Carver PT 1800 - 600 w/per channel @ 8ohms, 900 @ 4. So, i'm assuming that this is a very good match. Does anyone disagree? This is for the EV Eliminator Double. 2 15 inch drivers, and a single 2 inch compression driver. Or would i be better off keeping the Cerwin Vegas that i currently own?
Since you already own the "subwoofer", does it have a lot of punch as opposed to a Cerwin Vega subwoofer?
Still need more brainfood...
-Brian
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#881706 - 01/03/01 08:06 AM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Another question...
Would it be better to go with a Eliminator Double which consists of 2 - 15inch drivers with a 2 inch compression driver. The lower driver has a 700 hz filter on it. Or would it be better to go with 2 single eliminators with a single 15 inch driver and a 2 inch compression driver? In other words, a pair of Double Eliminators vs 4 Single Eliminators.
Any response?
-Brian
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#881707 - 01/03/01 12:44 PM
Re: speakers
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Anonymous
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The short answer is "Yes", the Eliminators are better matching your amps capability to the speaker's power handling. The downside is that you already own the CV V-152's and exchnaging them may be difficult. Also, the 103 dB SPL @ 1w-1m is very efficient and the 70 by 70 degree pattern makes these speakers perfect for mid-to-small clubs with short distance needs. Trading the PM-1800 could always be an option.
The Eliminators are longer (narrower) throw and more suited towards deeper rooms or situations the sidewalls are very reflective (reverberant) and vocal clarity is a priority. The horn is a CD type with a 60 by 40 degree throw.
Regarding the Eliminator Doubler, that speaker is designed for those who prefer to haul two larger speakers than the predecessor 4-box Eliminators (2-subs, 2-tops). Alot of DJs prefer the two box design as it simplifies cabling and setup. Personally I prefer the 4-box system because I like 18" woofs as subs and I can carry each cabinet at load-in/out without assistance.
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#881708 - 01/03/01 03:16 PM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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the 103 db effiency is rated at the program rating. 
RMS rating puts it at 100 db.
Not so efficient as I first thought.
Here's a direct link to the speakers I have.
http://www.cerwinvega.com/products/professional/v152.html
Again, I appreciate all the feedback. Looks like I'm leaning towards the EV's, but i might end up loosing some $ during the process.
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#881709 - 01/04/01 12:44 PM
Re: speakers
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Anonymous
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Brian and I (Mark) have had a lengthy conversation yesterday and after running down all the aspects of his gear and application, most of what he is doing with the Cerwin-Vega is optimum for his DJ show work.
If others have similar questions regarding matching amp watts to speaker ratings, use this forum or send e-mail to me.
Mark Amundson
Tech Editor
Gig Magazine
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#881710 - 01/04/01 02:08 PM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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Loc: Rochester,NY,UNITED STATES
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Got another question,.. heh.. just kidding.
I was able to find an Ashly XR1001 Series II crossover for 275 locally. Not a bad deal.
Anyways, Thanks to Mark for all the help. I just PRAY that my speakers don't suffer any thermal damage. :")
(Running away from the old amp and the old compressor i currently own)
Any offers for a Alesis 3630 Compressor/Limiter and a Crown CE1000 Power Amp?
-Brian
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#881711 - 01/04/01 04:53 PM
Re: speakers
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skippy@eznet.net
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2 questions for those who do a lot of equipment transportation and those who download MP3's.
1) What's the preferred method to "warm" up speakers before running them at full capacity? 5 minutes? 15 minutes at a low volume? what kind of music is suggested?
2) For those who download MP3's and convert/burn them onto CD's, although the sound quality isn't as exceptional as the actual CD you can buy at the store, will this cause any speaker damage of any sort?
reason for asking: of 2 of the last 4 gig's I've DJ'ed at, 2 separate speakers were blown. First one was a EV Eliminator running off a Crown Ce2000 amp. The low end driver blew out. (I THINK it was due to a electrical "pop" - sharing a circuit with other electronic items) and the high end of a dual 15" Peavy Cabinet burned out. (Again, I think it was the amp.. this was a Crown CE1000).
Could it be possible that MP3 music converted to wav files and put on CD have this sort of effect?
-Brian
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