#881664 - 11/18/00 12:14 AM
Stage monitor basics
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rclogston@hotmail.com
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Registered: 11/17/00
Posts: 2
Loc: Warren,NH,UNITED STATES
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Hi. I'm in a rather loud 3-piece (think Cream/Hendrix/Rush) and we're having a bear of a time getting a decent monitor mix. Any suggestions?
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#881665 - 11/21/00 12:15 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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Anonymous
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For loud bands needing loud monitor mixes, start by emphasizing the basics of acoustics. First you need top quality hypercardiod mics (e.g. Shure Beta 58, Audix OM-5) that have the tight pickup pattern to reject feedback. Next really good stage monitors with fairly flat frequency response. Do not "cheap-out" on mics or monitors. Then of course the mixer and amps to complete the circuit.
If that does not start to improve things, you are in trouble enough to need to drop stage volume. Remember to place your stage monitors partially off to one side to keep the hypercardiod mic axis pointing away from the cabinets.
Next, consider a third-octave graphic eq for each unique monitor mix you create. I recommend the Peavey Q231FLS dual graphic eq since the LEDs above each fader act as "training wheels" to point which fader needs to be brought down a bit. Remember to set the graphic eq fairly flat at first and then notch down two or three faders that cause the most feedback trouble.
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#881666 - 11/21/00 03:14 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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sonusman
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Registered: 11/21/00
Posts: 175
Loc: Portland,OR,UNITED STATES
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Try turning down.... 
If you can't sound good at lower volumes, you probably don't sound all that great playing loud like you do. If you are having this problem with most venues you play at, obviously something needs to give. I can assure you that most venues will not re-outfit their monitor rigs because "you" are not happy with it.
Ed
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#881667 - 11/22/00 12:22 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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Bart
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Registered: 12/07/99
Posts: 44
Loc: St.Paul, MN USA
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I am not going to disagree with Mark, but I do have a different opinion where the money should be spent . I agree, good mics are critical. However, I don't think spending a ton on monitors is really necessary. There are company's (Yamaha, JBL) that make good solid monitor speakers that are very affordable. If you get a few years of hard abuse out of them, they have paid for themselves, and buy another one. Besides a separate monitor board, put your money into the power amps and give yourself plenty of headroom. Another words, don't under power your speakers. Personally, my amps are double or more the rating of my speakers. I would also recommend using compressor/limiter on each monitor send for speaker protection.
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#881668 - 02/07/01 07:54 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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MidiMagic
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Registered: 02/01/01
Posts: 17
Loc: Bloomington,IN,UNITED STATES
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We are about to go to earbuds instead of monitor speakers, with a separate monitor mix for each group of performers, and a "more me" arrangement for each player.
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#881669 - 02/11/01 04:23 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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rclogston@hotmail.com
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Registered: 11/17/00
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Loc: Warren,NH,UNITED STATES
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Thanks for the advice. We didn't go the super-high-end stuff, but we didn't cheese out either. What we finally did do was contact Peavey and two local Peavey dealers for advice, since our rig is 90% theirs. What they recommended for a monitor mix was to drop the bass on the bottom three bands of the eq. When you're sound checking it sounds weird, but you get enough bass off the mains to make up for it and it allows a lot more headroom for the stage mix. We've been trying it, and it works great! Last night we played in a gymnasium (sound men can now begin barfing) and our stage mix was excellent. In fact, we even got a good sound for the room, which amazed us all.
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#881670 - 02/13/01 06:53 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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brianrost
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Registered: 02/01/01
Posts: 93
Loc: ,MA,UNITED STATES
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Rule #1 for a good monitor mix is get everything OUT of the monitors that is not needed.
For a 3 piece band, unless you have a monster PA and are playing in stadiums I'd say it should be vocals ONLY...no guitar, no bass, no drums in the monitors. After all you've got amps and your drummer pounds like a mofo, so why do you need any MORE of that in the wedges.
Don't put effects in the mix, either. Flanging the vocal may trip out your audience but it's harder for you to hear it. OK, a small touch of verb if you need it but skip the cathedral and cavern patches on your Lexicon.
Vocal mikes pick up everything on the stage in addition to the vocals, so as you crank the vocals up more in the wedges you'll get plenty of other stuff flying back at you, this is why it's hard to hear yourself in many rooms. The ratio of the vocal level to the room noise level stays the same no matter how loud you run the wedges (next gig, listen to what's in the wedges while you're on break between sets, you might be surprised).
If at all possible turn off any mikes that won't be in use, that puts less extra crap in the wedges. Simplest way to do that is use mikes with on-off switches and have each singer use them if they aren't singing on that song. Gates won't work, every time the drummer hits the snare they'll open right up.
The suggestion for rolling off low end is a good one. Peaking some upper mids can help with clarity but watch out for feedback up there.
GET THE CLEAREST SOUNDING MONITORS YOU CAN and feed them with good amps, don't skimp on wattage. You want clean, clean, clean.
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#881671 - 02/22/01 06:17 PM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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aframe9999_dup1
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Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 69
Loc: Indianapolis, IN, UNITED STATE...
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It's been mentioned, but the best way to hear yourself better is to keep your stage volume down. Mic the guitar so you don't have to have it so loud, or put some sort of baffle in front of it, run the bass direct with the on-stage rig only for monitoring. Our drummer recently went electronic. That brought stage volume WAY down. OF course that leads to a whole different debate -- acoustic vs. electric. However it works for us.
Keep only the minimum of what you need in the monitors and keep the lows out of the monitors as well. We don't have anything below like 400hz in the monitors.
My 2 cents....
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#881672 - 02/27/01 08:24 AM
Re: Stage monitor basics
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Hack
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Registered: 02/22/01
Posts: 41
Loc: Little Rock,AR,UNITED STATES
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most cheap monitors have a 12" woofer and a 1" driver(horn). Some have a 15 and a 1. ie. peavey 112m and 115m. And they are run with one cable. On the side of the monitor there are jacks that say "high" and "low". This is for "bi-amping" the monitor. Running it with two seperate amp channels. The people who sold you the gear can set you up with everything you need. This really improves the overall ablity of the monitor.
The really good monitors that cost $1400 each have 2 12" woofers and a 2" driver(horn), and they are powered with a total of around 900 to 1200 watts.
FYI
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