#781137 - 07/05/04 05:57 PM
Royalties .... question
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Sven Golly
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 4436
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Okay, so rank this one up with the 'young kid, dumbass of the year award' list... but here goes. About a decade ago, I played with a touring/recording act signed to a major label. Recorded an album with them (no songwriting; just created my parts, and played'em)... also played a live gig that was recorded and subsequently released as a CD.
Both of these recordings were released internationally, and enjoyed success both here in Canada, and also in Europe and Asia. Not sure of sales figures, but definitely into the hundreds of thousands in total.
Now (here's where the dumbass part comes in)... I never saw a nickel for any of this. Yep, I'm a goober, first class.  :rolleyes:
I was a member of the Musician's Union at the time of the recordings. An email to them asking about this subject (not "where's my money", but "what should I have done to receive compensation based on album sales", in case anyone's curious) has so far (3 weeks) received NO reply. Before I follow up with another email, I thought I'd quiz the generally knowledgeable gang here at MP.com.
So, gang... what SHOULD I have done? What CAN I do (if anything)? I'm not looking for early retirement here, obviously, but a little scratch for the work I did would have been nice. Any recourse for me at this point, 11+ years later? :rolleyes:
Yep... I'm an optimist... I know it. Naive, too. Please be gentle. 
SG
(edited to include smileys...  )
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake. ~Nietzsche
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#781138 - 07/05/04 07:45 PM
Re: Royalties .... question
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Kaz
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Registered: 09/22/02
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I don't really know, you probably should talk to a lawyer. But this is my guess. You might be able to get a flat fee or whatever the union usually charges, or charged back then. As far as collecting anything from the sales, I'm guessing you wouldn't be entitled to any of that, unless you had signed an agreement with the band beforehand, and I doubt they would have given you anything anyway, since it sounds like you weren't an actual member of the band, but a hired musician.
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#781139 - 07/07/04 10:38 AM
Re: Royalties .... question
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LiveMusic
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 02/23/01
Posts: 4727
Loc: Louisiana
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Assuming you got paid, I don't know why you would expect something. Were you promised anything and didn't get it? If you created stuff and got no arranger's credit, maybe that's where you went wrong. Unless they PAID you to do what you did. Which means, case closed.
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#781140 - 07/08/04 04:26 PM
Re: Royalties .... question
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Registered: 08/23/03
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You apparently don't have a piece of the publishing. That is where the money is, in the long term.
Otherwise, you made what you made while recording and playing, and that's it.
If the recording sessions were held as union sessions, then the Musicians Union might be able to help. But if you guys just got together and recorded, then the Union was not representing anyone at those sessions, as it was not a Union session. Not their business or problem.
Really, I don't see why you'd expect anything more unless you were a part of the team. (Like, the Beatles set it up so that each of them had a piece of the action, no matter what. Even though L&Mc got the lion's share, the other two were covered. Same with the Rascals and many others.) From your description, you were almost a side man. Ry Cooder tried to sue the Roling Stones on a similar premise..... he 'created' the parts that he played, and he wanted a piece of the action for the parts, even though they ended up on the cutting room floor. (He claimed the Stones either stole his licks and played them themselves, or used his licks for inspiriation and created derivative works.... a little different from your situation, but similar....) The courts blew him off.
There are other cases where the players did recover additional monies from artists after the fact, but it is a less than certain thing. If there is BIG money involved, get a lawyer.
Otherwise, it might be smart to review the contracts of the time, compare them to similar documents and see if they obviously maltreated you in some fashion, looking for a 'hook'. If you recieved nothing for the recordings and you didn't sign a waiver, you may have a case.
It's all pretty iffy.
Bill
_________________________
"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#781141 - 07/08/04 05:07 PM
Re: Royalties .... question
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Sven Golly
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 11/12/03
Posts: 4436
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Thanks for the replies, guys. To sum up:
If you recieved nothing for the recordings and you didn't sign a waiver, you may have a case.  )
If you created stuff and got no arranger's credit, maybe that's where you went wrong. Unless they PAID you to do what you did. Which means, case closed.
I guess this whole posting came about because I was led to believe by other musicians that I know that they continue to receive royalty payments (albeit small ones) from their performances . I've never asked them directly what they did to ensure they got paid; I know they aren't publishing-related royalties, though.
Anyway, this is less about looking for money, and more about wanting to know what I did wrong (if anything). Thanks for taking the time to reply.
SG
_________________________
Without music life would be a mistake. ~Nietzsche
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#781142 - 07/16/04 01:57 PM
Re: Royalties .... question
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Geekgurl
Platinum Member
Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 1232
Loc: near San Francisco
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Did you take this gig as a Union musician? Did your employers sign the union contract? If so, look at it carefully ... because the union contracts around here typically are set up to waive upfront payment for sessions, or at least as much payment, in lieu of POINTS. Ie, royalties. Check your contract ... you do still have a copy?
I don't know how much teeth the union actually has in enforcing its contracts. It may be a legal battle with lawyers none the less, which would suck because it's the little guy against a conglomerate. I have a friend who wasted money fighting for a bigger share (a fair share) of his publishing on a song that did really well ... and he said, even though he had a recognized big-league lawyer, it was money down the drain.
Good luck, and keep us posted!
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#781143 - 07/17/04 01:12 AM
Re: Royalties .... question
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Dave Martin
Gold Member
Registered: 03/17/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville
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Umm, in the US, musicians don't generally make money based on album sales unless they're the 'artist', when a certain percentage of the sales go to them. if you're a side man, you get paid for the session and then you're done (not strictly true, but close enough for a first approximation). Now, for those who were in the union and DID sign a card (assuming that contracts were filed), there are re-use payments that can be made when a broadcast performance is re-broadcast, or when a song that you played on is used in a movie or a TV show.
It sounds like you either didn't sign a card for the sessions or weren't a member of the union at the time - you don't get royalties.
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