#779959 - 03/21/05 01:05 AM
Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego
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Hi folks. i have a channel mixer but i don't know how to track out my drums, on seperate tracks. I mix down to one track in Logic and play with it from there. What do i need to get or do to be able to record to seperate tracks, without having to record one drum at a time (or even four since my mixer could theoretically record to 4 tracks at once, even though i've never done it.)
Thanks in advance for any help on this.
RobS
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#779960 - 03/21/05 03:09 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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LIMiT
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Registered: 04/15/04
Posts: 170
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
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Hey Drummer Rob,
what type of mixer? What recording interface? Which version of logic? What type of computer do you have?
Lets start with that...
Cheers,
-LIMiT
_________________________
"..it will test your head,..and your mind,...and your brain too..."
Dewey Finn-
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#779961 - 03/21/05 09:35 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego
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Mixer = Mackie CFX 16-Channel.
Interface = Tascam US-122 (two Mic and two line/guitar connections, I only use the Mic)
Logic Pro 7
Power Mac G5
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#779962 - 03/21/05 09:50 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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offramp
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Registered: 10/31/00
Posts: 5846
Loc: Golden, CO.
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Okay...
You'll need an interface with more inputs, like a MOTU 828 or 896, for example.
On the Mackie, you have a 1/4" jack on the back of each channel; these jacks serve as an 'insert', but can also serve as a 'send'...if you push a 1/4" jack only halfway into it, it interrupts the signal path in the Mackie, and re-routes the signal to wherever you've got the cable plugged into. Generally, the point in the signal path that this jack interrupts is after the preamp and EQ section, so you can use those as you normally would.
NOW... being that, with this approach, you're now having all of your signals on 1/4" TRS cables, you could use an interface with all 1/4" TRS inputs, and be golden. (TRS stands for 'Tip/Ring/Sleeve', which accomodates a balanced signal, like XLR's). If you had something like a MOTU 896, it has XLR inputs (as well as 1/4"), and you can plug your mics straight into the interface.
With the setup I described, channel assignments might look something like this (I'll use mine as an example):
Ch.1/kick
Ch.2/snare
Ch.3/1st tom
Ch.4/2nd tom
Ch.5/3rd (floor) tom
Ch.6/Left Overhead
Ch.7/Right Overhead
Ch.8/hi-hat (which I don't always use.)
If that's a picture of your kit in your avatar, the only difference is that the 2nd tom would be out of this lineup, and everything else after it would move up one channel.
In Logic, you should be able to select the input source for each channel; with the proper interface, Logic will recognize the interface and make all the channels available to you.
Does this help? Or did I confuse you too much?
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#779963 - 03/21/05 02:37 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego
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No confusion at all...this help a ton. I assumed I could do what I needed by somehow using the 1/4" Inserts sice I knew you could loop into Effect boxes and such, but I wasn't sure. This helps me! So it sounds like all i need is an interface with enough 1/4" connections to accomodate my kit...my big kit, not the one shown.
Thanks again. Is there anything else anyone would like to add? I'm all ears.
RobS
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#779964 - 03/21/05 11:47 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego
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Me again. If you use the Motu for your audio interface, do you still need an external mixer? I could mix directly in Logic, right? As you can guess I'm new to all this tech. Or is it still better to go through a mixer first, then through the interface, into Logic?
I don't have any rack stuff. So are there other options that record at least 12 tracks simultaneously, and mixes on the fly? Maybe one these digital recorders I'm reading about?
RobS
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#779965 - 03/22/05 01:07 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Loc: San Diego
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Ok me one last time. I'm reading about the Tascam FW1884. That seems like its an all-in-one mixer/audio interface, that can record up to 18 tracks simultaneously, for about $1299. Is this what i should have? And get rid of the Mackie mixer?
Are there other competitor products that do the same thing? I figure recording 12 simlutaneous will more then cover me 99% of the time.
Is there such a thing as an XLR to TRS cable?
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#779966 - 03/22/05 07:14 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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offramp
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With the MOTU, you do not NEED an external mixer. If you want EQ, gain, and outboard FX processing (comp, limiter, etc), then you can use the mixer to your advantage here in the manner I described earlier.
Don't know about the Tascam. Once I got the MOTU, I tuned out everything else. 
DON'T get rid of your mixer! You'll always want to have that around; besides, sure as shit you'll get rid of it, then need it about two weeks later. Besides, if you get your 'tech head' together, you can use that mixer in live situations for your kit.
Yes, Virginia...there IS such a thing as XLR to TRS. Quite common.
I guess it would help us if you were more specific about your needs. You talk about 'mixing on the fly', which isn't really effective in a DAW, but is on a mixer; you talk about doing 12 channels simultaneously, but for what? All drums? Drums and other instruments? How many drums do you have?
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I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#779967 - 03/23/05 09:40 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Loc: San Diego
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Well if I really really wanted control of everything, I would currently look for something that can handle the large set.
BD, Snare, 5 Toms, HH, 2 Overheads, 2 Additional Drums.
I've recorded the set with just 3 mics BD, Snare, 1 OH, and with just 2 mics BD, 1 OH, which all sounded fine for quick reordings. But the drums sounded distant with some reverb as you might imagine.
So I'd like to learn how to record the drums at a pro level of quality and tweak the sound in Logic.
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#779968 - 03/23/05 10:50 AM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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offramp
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Loc: Golden, CO.
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Originally posted by DrummerRob:
Well if I really really wanted control of everything, I would currently look for something that can handle the large set.
BD, Snare, 5 Toms, HH, 2 Overheads, 2 Additional Drums.
"2 additional drums"? What are they? Do they need to be mic'd? Or can they live as part of the OH setup?
I've recorded the set with just 3 mics BD, Snare, 1 OH, and with just 2 mics BD, 1 OH, which all sounded fine for quick reordings. But the drums sounded distant with some reverb as you might imagine.
So I'd like to learn how to record the drums at a pro level of quality and tweak the sound in Logic.
Pro level quality starts with well-tuned drums and good mic placement. I'm in no position, obviously, to believe that you lack the former, but it appears the latter might benefit from some exploration on your part. A starting point would be: Since you tune the drums to sound good from where you sit--pretty much all drummers do--then an obvious choice would be to get the overheads as close to that point as possible. Generally, about a foot back and two feet above the drummers' head, with mic patterns pointed evenly at the kit, is a good place to get a good-sounding overhead take. Careful and selective EQ'ing on the overheads will result in a wealth of information from which to draw the sound of your kit and help shape the sound of the tune.
Perspective is another element. Do you want the listener to hear from the audience perspective, or from the drummers' perspective? In either case, a natural sounding image of the kit is desireable; well-done overheads can the critical first step in achieving this.
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#779969 - 03/23/05 09:59 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Loc: San Diego
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Geez offramp...thats a great reply. I'll have to read it a few times to digest it all. I'll say this that i know fully well that I'm a cart-before-the-horse kinda guy. I buy the equipment after extensive research but then experiment and play.
So far i've been able to record drum playing that I'm very happy with. Once you add in the other instruments, it works out pretty well. but a good deal of my enjoyment is to listen to certain drum sounds on songs and figure out what I would need to reproduce those.
But I am a beginner. So your comments are well received and I thank you and everyone for your input. I'll keep playing around with mic placement and actually learn what gating and compression are meant to fo for drums, and play with that awhile.
RobS
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#779970 - 03/23/05 10:13 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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offramp
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If you research before you buy, then experiment, then you're not necessarily a cart-before-the-horse sort. You're pretty normal, given the crew you're hanging around with, here.
Don't get too caught up in deciphering recorded drum sounds on commercial releases... there's a hell of a lot more going on there, in terms of the way those drum sounds were achieved in relationship to the rest of the instrumentation, and how the mix was settled upon. You may get your snare to sound like Van Halen's on "5150", but it won't be with the same equipment, in the same situation, with the same mastering; in the end, all you've done is recreate that particular frequency combination(s) from that mastered source.
Use the deciphering as a learning tool...not as a benchmark.
_________________________
I've upped my standards; now, up yours.
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#779971 - 03/24/05 01:37 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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TheMajorMiller
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Registered: 03/24/05
Posts: 1
Loc: Houston
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New to recording drums??? Check this out:
Recording Drums at Home
A brief yet informative look at recording techniques for drums. It's a great starting point. Good Luck!!
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#779972 - 03/25/05 06:55 PM
Re: Best way to track drums?
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DrummerRob
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Registered: 09/12/03
Posts: 63
Loc: San Diego
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Thanks for the website on recording. Very interesting. i'll see about recording some sample stuff this weekend and post to see what feedback you guys can offer.
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