#521553 - 05/27/01 07:43 PM
Carvin basses?
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bassmutt
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Registered: 05/27/01
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Loc: Oklahoma City,OK,UNITED STATES
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Hello
Are Carvin basses good for metal? Their prices are really good for neck-thru basses.
I play death metal with my fingers (never use a pick) and I'm considering buying an LB20 (passive) and replacing the stock pickups with a pair of Seymour Duncan Jazz Quarter Pounders.
Your opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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#521554 - 05/27/01 10:34 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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Well, I'm a Carvin guy, but don't have any experience with the rigors that death metal might place on an instrument. You might want to consider the LB70, the active circuit is very good. Personally, I really like the Carvin pickups and don't see a need to swap out to Duncans, but of course you'd have the chance to try it for yourself before you did that. It's a really well made bass, very versatile, I can't imagine it not doing what you want played through the proper death metal rig!
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521555 - 05/27/01 11:29 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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good morning
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Registered: 06/22/00
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Loc: Arlington,VA,UNITED STATES
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I think you'll really want the active circuit; tone shaping is so versatile with actives (I have a Yamaha bass with an active preamp).
Carvin has outstanding quality and workmanship. I bought one of their guitars (Bolt model)after my bass and it's true: you can't touch what they offer for twice as much.
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#521556 - 05/28/01 01:45 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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ricknbokker
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Registered: 12/10/00
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Loc: Telford,PA,UNITED STATES
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Nuthin' but Carvin for me. Amazing stuff for the price. Awesome string deals, too!
Steve
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#521557 - 05/28/01 03:24 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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spankmestudios
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Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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Yeah,
go active electronics, it will give you that thick tone that helps punch out of the heavily distorted guitars.
Tony
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#521558 - 05/28/01 08:57 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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BoneTone
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Registered: 05/24/01
Posts: 6
Loc: wichita,KS,UNITED STATES
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My point of reference is the LB75 I received last Dec. I think all their LB's are just variations on a theme. An LB could work fine for death metal, given the right amplification, strings, woods, and pickups.
For your application, the swamp ash body would be my choice, due to its characteristic "bite." A maple fingerboard would be nice, but since they don't offer those, the ebony is just fine.
The Seymour Duncans would certainly be an improvement. In the opinion of myself and some other owners, the Carvin HB is anemic, boxy, and totally lacks decent bass. My guess is that cheap foreign wire was used on the coils. Their J99's are powerful, but they are extremely "scooped" - glassy, articulate, lows and highs and no mids whatsoever to give them guts or warmth. A number of us have also had problems with them being very noisy, lots of "clicks" and "clacks" from the frets, similar to what some Ernie Ball owners report.
You're right about their neck-through prices being good. They are very solid. Too bad the pickups/onboards are dismal.
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#521559 - 05/28/01 10:30 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ben
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Registered: 03/30/01
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This may be slightly off topic, but: Ed (or anyone) have you had a chance to try the Carvin "P" series with the piezo pickups in the bridge?
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#521560 - 05/29/01 05:10 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 1150
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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Well, they DO offer maple fingerboards. My main 5 is a BB75 Swamp Ash with a maple fingerboard. http://www.edfriedland.com/equip.html
The J99s are very Jazz-like, so they do have a certain amount of scoop, but punch is no problem, the bass has plenty on it's own, and the midrange control is tuned perfectly to add low-mids that kick without being honky.
I have the H50's in my BB75 fretless (it's not up on my equip page yet) and I like them alot. I wouldn't call them boxy at all. I rather like them. They sound as good as any stack humbucker out there.
I don't know where they get their coil wire from, I know they do make it a priority to use American made materials when possible. It could be foriegn wire though, I don't know.
As far as clicks and clacks from the frets, that could be a result of having your treble control boosted too much, it could also be a technical issue. Either the note isn't being fretted well, or maybe the neck is too straight and the string is clacking against the fingerboard. I don't seem to experience that problem on my Carvin or my Music Man.
Barry Sparks is using two HB2s (the big MM style Humbucker) in his LB76 and he plays with a lot of metal guys, Michael Schenker, Yngwie et al.
Yes, I have a P bridge in my BB75 fretless. It's great! It's got amazing bottom. I use it by itself sometimes on jazz gigs, or dial it in with the magnetic pickups for some added color. The high end is nice, not clacky, it gives a nice prescence to the sound. I'm waiting on a 4 string fretted with the HB2 and the P bridge. I want to check out what they are calling their "ultimate slapping machine"
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521561 - 05/29/01 12:47 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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g.
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I haven't played the HB2 but have heard that quite a few people who like them... I myself use the H50N pups and like them better than any other stacks I've ever heard; full dynamic range without that compressed sound, and *great* treble definition that leveraged the flexible tones my Smith Compressors can make... Though for my fretless now I think I would like a pickup that was voices a bit more toward the low mids like some of the Barts I've heard, just because the fretless style I am developing seems to ask for it.
Boxy? I don't think so. I get plenty of compliments on my tone. As far as the "cheap foreign wire" or whatever that was, I doubt I care what nationality the wire is, really ; }
The voicing, dynamic range, and quietness of the Carvin preamp is great. Not something I would complain about after trying many pre-amps that are lacking in one or more areas or cost lots more. Not having a variable mid center, I think they picked the right frequency. I did find that if I set the cavity trimpot level so that when the pre-amp is engaged its detented output has as much mids as the pickups produce when I am in passive mode (that's maybe another 10% higher than the lowest setting) that I like the match-up better than when it is down all the way. And this really brings the B string into True Largeness™.
Fret noise? Good set-up and technique make the Carvin perform like any other quality bass that has lots of treble detail. If you are hearing too much fret noise you might be happier with a different fret wire, or need to examine your technique, treble/upper mid settings, or your truss rod relief. And bridge setup might need to be changed to accomodate your picking style. I set mine higher than the factory but as I began to moderate my right hand (I was really hitting hard all the time) the action came back down a bit.
This message has been edited by greenboy on 05-29-2001 at 10:09 AM
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#521562 - 05/29/01 05:36 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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BoneTone
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Registered: 05/24/01
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Loc: wichita,KS,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by greenboy:
I haven't played the HB2 but have heard that quite a few people who like them... I myself use the H50N pups...Boxy? I don't think so. I get plenty of compliments...As far as the "cheap foreign wire" or whatever that was, I doubt I care what nationality the wire is, really ; }
Fret noise? Good set-up and technique greenboy on 05-29-2001 at 10:09 AM
green - On the pups, I was referring to the Carvin HB's sounding wimpy and boxy, not their stacked H50N's. (I've heard nothing but good things about them).
The people I know of who think the Carvin HB is worth having on their instrument fall into 2 categories - 1)Haven't owned/played anything better than Carvin, or, 2)In some way, their income/reputation is related to Carvin.
On the wire, brands that are either low end or have a "budget/beginner" line will use cheap, foreign wire instead of a standard wire like 42AWG enameled copper wire, used in the USA. But the use of the junk wire isn't limited to makes that play the low end game.
A look at the Carvin board or Talkbass will show that I have company in pointing out the deficiencies of the HB's and the fret noise. In 30+ years of playing bass, it is the first bass I've encountered with clicks and clacks that hit you in the face. I've adjusted the thing 8 ways to Sunday, and have minimized it by compromising where I would ideally like the action set.
Maybe you and Ed were fortunate to get individual instruments that didn't exhibit these deficiencies. But I'm certainly not alone on this.
This message has been edited by BoneTone on 05-29-2001 at 02:56 PM
This message has been edited by BoneTone on 05-30-2001 at 05:04 AM
This message has been edited by BoneTone on 05-30-2001 at 05:07 AM
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#521563 - 05/29/01 07:19 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com
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Registered: 10/11/00
Posts: 94
Loc: Lockport, NY, UNITED STATES
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Always played Fenders with Bartolinis. Got a used carvin LB76.
Best bass I ever owned. I love the stability of the neck and
I intended to change to Bartolinis but see no need. The Carvin
pickups and preamp sound great and are very quiet.
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Thank you,
Craig S. Leyh
CraigLeyh@FrameBand.com
Keep It Low!
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#521564 - 05/30/01 12:52 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 1150
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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Well, as I said, I'm waiting on a bass with an HB2 in it, so I'll have a chance to see if it clicks or pops. The main thing I'm doing different is having the coil cut switch wired for series/parallel instead. I think that's more useful. Instead of a J99 up front, I'm getting an H50. We'll see.
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521565 - 05/30/01 12:33 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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BoneTone
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Registered: 05/24/01
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Originally posted by Ed Friedland:
...an HB2 in it, so I'll have a chance to see if it clicks or pops. The main thing I'm doing different is having the coil cut switch wired for series/parallel instead. I think that's more useful....
Ed - I didn't associate the HB alnico with the clicks and clacks...only that other owners besides myself have found ours sound horribly weak and boxy when it is used alone, instead of the aggressive sound one associates with an MM-style pup.
The metallic clicks and clacks are noted by other LB owners besides myself, without reference to pups.
Sorry if it seemed I inferred otherwise.
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#521566 - 05/30/01 10:49 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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bassmutt
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Registered: 05/27/01
Posts: 3
Loc: Oklahoma City,OK,UNITED STATES
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Thanks for all the helpful replies!
It sounds like the Carvin with a maple neck thru ash wings and the H50N pickups would suit my needs
I guess I should have mentioned my amp rig, which consists of a Hartke 7000 head and a pair of Hartke 215XL cabs. I also run a BBE 461 in the f/x loop. I like my tone to be loud, punchy, and pristine. I can't stand the sound of overdrive/distortion on electric bass. I like a clean, clangy "piano wire" type of sound that can cut through obnoxious guitar distortion and earbleeding cymbals
One more question: what about the active electronics option? Would these be overkill for a metal bassist? I guess I've always associate active electronics with jazz bassists and such
Thanks again!
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#521567 - 05/30/01 11:43 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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g.
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Registered: 01/31/01
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I use the preamp quite a bit. It'll solve tone/mix problems for portions of a song, allow you to make notes at the end to seem to sustain longer, and gives you a bigger palette than passive, which I tend to switch in and out of for additional flexibility... It'll work in *any* style; it's up to the *player* to make it stick.
If you look at a roster of metal bassists past and present you will see there really are no rules about what is allowable -- Supposedly. Though what is available at the time has historically limited that genre just like any other. It would blow my mind that a musical style that prides itself in its rebelliousness would have a dress code for the instruments used to make it ; }
Have fun, I know you will be able to make ears bleed even with modern technology like onboard electronics : }
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#521568 - 05/31/01 06:25 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 1150
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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The active circuits in Carvin basses all have bypass mode, so you can play passive if you like. The electronics are a great option to have, and it doesn't add that much more to the price, I think you'll find it's well worth it.
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521569 - 05/31/01 02:58 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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BoneTone
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Registered: 05/24/01
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Another thumbs up for the active/passive option. In some situations, my active signal has been too hot. Just a pull on the volume knob and it's just fine in passive. Plus, there's no tone degradation either.
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#521570 - 05/31/01 03:09 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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SlimT
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Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 207
Loc: Milwaukee,WI,UNITED STATES
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I've got a BB75 with the Alnico and a J99 with active. With this configuration, I've got one balance knob and one volume knob. When I solo the J99 (by turning the balance know all the way to the neck) or the Alnico, I get noise even in bypass mode.
I 'm sure I'm just not experienced enough with this stuff to get what I want out of my BB75. Any tips? Do all of the active electronics from Carvin only come with one volume knob and a balance knob?
I've also got an LB20 with passive electronics and J99s. With this set up, there are two volume knobs and one tone. Soloing the neck pickup (which I do for reggae) gives me the sound I like without the added noise. Then I just brighten it up with the tone or the bridge pickup volume. This is easier for my fragile little mind to grasp.
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It's all about the rumble.
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#521571 - 05/31/01 04:29 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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shirojiro
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Registered: 02/01/01
Posts: 16
Loc: San Francisco,CA,UNITED STATES
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So I've been going to the Carvin website to check out their basses, and I'm a little confused.
What is the difference between the LB 40 and LB 70? Is it passive vs active?
So is the the LB40 with the active option the same as an LB70?
Is there a big difference in the BB vs the LB series?
Inquiring minds want to know.
-shin
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#521572 - 05/31/01 11:51 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
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Well, I haven't gone to the website to check on this, but I have a catalog here. I don't see an LB40 listed. There is an LB20 which is the passive-only version of the LB70. Same bass, just not active EQ. The BB series have a different body shape, the top horn is extended for better balance, and the neck profile is different. On the 5 strings, it has an asymetrical profile that gives you more meat under the B string and a slimmer feel under the G. The string spacing is also wider. The 4 strings also have a slightly rounder neck profile, but the spacing is the same.
Hope this helps.
The hum from the J99 is natural as it's a single coil pickup. If you use it in conjunction with the coil cut on the HB2, it will form a humbucking pair like on a Jazz bass.
Personally, I'm going for an H50 humbucker in the front of mine because I don't want the coil cut on the HB2, I want series/parallel and a quiet front pickup that can be soloed.
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521573 - 06/01/01 03:39 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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g.
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I always used to wire guitars with series/parallel instead of coil drop. Could never understand why it wasn't more common: clear clean tone with reduced noise over the single coil. But now, playing bass instead of hotrodding others' guitars, I probably would leave the switch out completely and use low-mids cut on the onboard preamp and be happy.
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#521574 - 06/03/01 01:03 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Ed,
I have been looking at the Carvin site a bit lately. Their prices seem enticing. The only thing is, it appears you can only get an ebony fingerboard when buying a kit bass, or bass neck. Is that reflected in the catalog? BTW, they are advertising the B4 bass kit for $339. That's quite a deal. You do have to finish the bass(sand, paint), but still, that's cheap.
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#521575 - 06/03/01 03:05 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 1150
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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Hmm, I don't know if they sell kits with maple fingerboards, you could always call and ask.
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521576 - 06/04/01 03:06 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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BoneTone
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Registered: 05/24/01
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Loc: wichita,KS,UNITED STATES
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Just a note on their ebony boards. They don't use the cheap, inferior, ebony that has gaps that some other makers fill in with paste.
I've owned maple boards, too, and the ebony is much more versatile, IMO, without giving up much at all to the maple. The maple would be better if all you did was slap all the time.
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#521577 - 06/04/01 06:49 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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What do you mean? I thought ebony was a dense bright wood.
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#521578 - 06/05/01 12:43 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Ed Friedland
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Registered: 09/19/00
Posts: 1150
Loc: Tucson,AZ,UNITED STATES
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<>
Well, I don't slap ALL the time, but I do tend to judge an axe by the slap sound. If a bass slaps well, I know I can get anything else I need out of it. I tend to prefer maple boards, they feel more alive under my hands, they respond better to left hand slapping. I also can see the neck better in a dark club. In spite of years of playing, I still like to see what I'm doing on the neck. I want Carvin to offer the block pearl inlays with maple boards, but they won't do it for me....  Oh well. The new 4 string I ordered with the P bridge has an ebony board so I could get the block inlays, I think they look great.
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#521579 - 06/05/01 01:53 AM
Re: Carvin basses?
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Anonymous
Anonymous
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Yeah, i think block inlays look cool too.
So you ordered that new P model. They have
a picture and write-up at the HC web site.
That's a sweet lookin' instrument. Bet it
sounds great too.
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#521580 - 06/05/01 01:57 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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SlimT
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Registered: 04/16/01
Posts: 207
Loc: Milwaukee,WI,UNITED STATES
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Great thread!
You guys are talking about having the coil cut switch wired for series/parallel. I'm not sure what that means.
Does that mean that instead of cutting out one of the coils on the HB2 it simply turns it off?
One final question: My LB20 was used when I got it. If I can solo my neck pickup without any hum, does that mean that the pickups are H50 instead of J99?
I 'm sure this is a stupid question, but, I'm new to all these complicated bass setups. :-)
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It's all about the rumble.
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#521581 - 06/05/01 03:02 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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g.
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Registered: 01/31/01
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SlimT : You guys are talking about having the coil cut switch wired for series/parallel. I'm not sure what that means. Does that mean that instead of cutting out one of the coils on the HB2 it simply turns it off?
Er, "cutting out" a coil and turning it off are one and the same. Series wiring is one coil wired into the next thusly:
----/////----\\\\\----
Series:
/////
----< >----
\\\\\
Like multiple speakers in cabs, each wiring results in a different resistance, and attendant tonal changes. Series is louder/fatter, parallel is somewhat closer to single coil in tonality, but has a fair amount of noise rejection that humbucking series wiring has. In addition, most humbucker pickups when running just one of their coils does not necessarily have the same electrical characteristics as a bona-fide single coil pickup anyway, so tonally it is not going to sound like a J though it will at least have a similar sensing field (the area of the string it "sees").
If I can solo my neck pickup without any hum, does that mean that the pickups are H50 instead of J99?
Put the bass near and facing the powered cab at a moderate volume. If you aren't hearing tellie/strat-type hum/noise the pickup is indeed the H50N which is incredibly quiet with Carvin's typically excellently-shielded cavity.
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#521582 - 06/05/01 03:44 PM
Re: Carvin basses?
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lug
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Registered: 03/13/01
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Does anyone know of a photo gallery for older carvins? I got a single pickup, fretless carvin made entirely of koa with what looks like a set neck. probably at least 10 years old. Sounds fantastic with more MWAH per pound than anything else around. There is no model number on the dang thing and was just curious.
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STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! - Bass_god_offspring
lug, you should add that statement to you signature. - Tenstrum
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