#520485 - 04/03/01 02:41 PM
What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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RobT
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Hello All,
With about twenty years experience playing bass, I have seen the term 'mwah' used over and over again when talking about fretless basses. I don't own a fretless, but I have played a few. What thee heck do you folks mean when you talk about the 'mwah' factor?
Not too ashamed of my ignorance ...
RobT
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RobT
Famous Musical Quotes: "I would rather play Chiquita Banana and have my swimming pool than play Bach and starve" - Xavier Cugat
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#520486 - 04/03/01 06:30 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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brianrost
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It's that growling, buzzing sound you get right after the initial attack of the note as the string vibrates against the fingerboard. I think the term is more than a little silly, myself.
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#520487 - 04/04/01 09:54 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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BassLand
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Hi Rob and Brian,
I think the term "Mwah" is just an attempt to describe the slow swell of the volume envelope that is produced by some fretless basses. The note starts out at one volume and grows in volume at certain frequencies and eventually starts to decay. The "M" part of the description is supposed to mimic the first part of the note and the "Wah" which when said is louder than the "M" sylable represents the louder part of the swell.
Now what exactly is "mwah" and what causes it? I worked for a number of years at Tobias guitars and have had time to study the phenomenon. I have heard some describe "mwah" as what happens when you 1-have the neck of a fretless bass real straight (no relief), and 2-have the action real low so the string buzzes against the fingerboard and while I have witnessed some basses exhibiting "mwah" under those circumstances, but I feel that it is only mimicing the real causes for "mwah".
Some upright basses have the "mwah" and it is from sympathetic vibration of the body of the instrument and I believe this is also what happens with some electrics. It is further enhansed by playing close to the end of the neck of the bass with your RH technique. This causes more fundamentals to be produced rather than playing by the bridge which causes more harmonic content.
I have two fretlesses and chose the construction of each with the same principle in mind. To have have the hardest stiffist neck and the most resonant body. Both basses exhibit "mwah" and I do not have the basses relief and action set the with a straight neck or particularly low action I described earlier (I can't do that because of the upright, which caused me to play with a heavier touch that I did before I started playing the upright and therefore, I raised the action and added relief to the neck).
I agree with you Brian that mwah is a silly term....
BL
http://bassland.net
This message has been edited by BassLand on 04-04-2001 at 11:18 PM
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#520488 - 04/04/01 10:02 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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BassLand
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Here is an example of one of my fretless basses and it's MWAH 
BTW: The bass has flatwound strings on it.
http://bassland.net/2.wav
This message has been edited by BassLand on 04-04-2001 at 08:04 PM
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#520489 - 04/05/01 04:35 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Ed Friedland
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The mwah factor is facilitated by the setup Bassland described, but you can get it with just your hands on almost any fretless with practice. (Yean, some basses "mwah" more than others). It's partly the attack, if you move your right hand up closer to the fingerboard where the string response is a little looser and play with a flat, meaty/pads of the fingers approach in the left hand, you can "squeeze" the mwah out of almost any axe. You can control it by adjusting the pressure in the left hand. True, some basses are beyond hope, but almost any reasonable fretless will do this if you're willing to work it. The point though is to find a bass that wants to do this so you don't have to work the note so much.
Personally, I always thought of it more as a "bwah" than a "mwah". 
------------------
http://www.edfriedland.com
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#520490 - 04/05/01 02:22 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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SteveW
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I just got into fretless last fall, and have two now. Their "mwah" characteristics are very different. The Taylor AB-3 fretless ABG has an ebony board and its stung with TI Jazz Flats. It gets the nasal, buzzy Mwah tone very easily, probably due to the extremely resonant hollow body - maple sides and back w/ spruce top. The other axe is a defretted G&L L1000 with a maple board & ash body, strung w/ D'Addario ground wounds. It has very little mwah, though I can get some through fretting & plucking technique. I actually prefer that this bass not have to much mwah, as I use it as my main bass and don't want a heavily colored tone on everything. I love the feeling of fretless, especially the Taylor, whose neck feels so free and smooth, but to much mwah turns into a one trick pony pretty quick. Being able to pull it out where appropriate is great - its a very expressive, lyrical tone - I think of it as "singing".
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#520491 - 04/05/01 03:53 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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RobT
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Thanks to all who replied. I've heard this term for years and never quite understood what it meant. I was playing a Modulus Graphite 5 string fretless on my lunch hour the other day and this term came to me (along with a few other things).
At least now I have a better understanding of what it is.
BTW: BassLand - do you have that .wav file in another format? WinAmp wouldn't play it and I can't find the darn Windows Media player on my machine.
RobT
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RobT
Famous Musical Quotes: "I would rather play Chiquita Banana and have my swimming pool than play Bach and starve" - Xavier Cugat
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#520492 - 04/07/01 10:36 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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backonbass
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Anybody buy a Yamaha RBX260 Fretless? I bought one to develop mwah ability. I found the next needing a lot of tweaking. Now, it's almost straight and I adjusted the string height to allow even tension and playing action without adding unnecessary or excessive buzzing. I'm still not satisfied with it. Seems that the neck needs further help. Any suggestions for neck adjustments and upgrading the pickups, etc?
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#520493 - 04/09/01 12:26 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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dansouth
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I'm pretty much with the rest of you. When I hear "mwah," I think of a rich sounding fretless electric or a full bodied upright. Unless I'm in France, of course...
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#520494 - 04/09/01 04:13 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Bill Bolton
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Ed wrote:
> you can "squeeze" the mwah out of almost any axe.
Maybe so, but in my experience there is a particular set up "sweet spot" on most fretles sbasses in which mwah will occur easily over at least part of the fretboard. A bass which easily delivers what you want allows more concentration to be applied to servicing the needs of the music at a hand, at to me that is more important (and so worth striving to achieve) than having to divert some attention to particular technique to achieve a needed sound.
As to the suitability of the term "mwah", which I think is a very expressive term for something which is otherwise quite wordy to explain.... its no more *silly* than words in regular use to describe various aspects of our instruments and their sound such as "nut", "relief", "action", "saddle", "attack", "swell", "thump" etc etc, or using Italian words for instructions on scored music.
Cheers,
Bill
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#520495 - 04/09/01 06:03 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Ed Friedland
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<<
Maybe so, but in my experience there is a particular set up "sweet spot" on most fretles sbasses in which mwah will occur easily over at least part of the fretboard. A bass which easily delivers what you want allows more concentration to be applied to servicing the needs of the music at a hand, at to me that is more important (and so worth striving to achieve) than having to divert some attention to particular technique to achieve a needed sound.>>
Most definitely! I dislike having to "wrestle" a fretless too much to get the sound. It's too much work and the energy is better spent making music. Still, an experienced player can usually get the mwah on any axe while a novice fretless player can't get it happening on even the best bass. It's as much a product of the hands as the instrument.
Moi? 
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http://www.edfriedland.com
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#520496 - 04/12/05 11:17 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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C. Alexander C.
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Ye olde threads. RIP RobT, one of our wisest comrades.
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#520498 - 04/12/05 11:40 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Chest Rockwell
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Mwah is the sound of my Steinberger XL2 5 string fretless straight from the factory to my hands. Nobody should have to compromise their playing style to get this sound IMHO. That said, its the only fretless bass I've ever "just picked up" and been able to attain the mwah sound. Its the greatest. I'll never part with it.
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#520499 - 04/12/05 12:45 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Fred the bass player
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BassLand and Ed: I can only add to this to one of the best and most comprehensive responses I've seen on this forum to date -- flatwound strings -- which your recent BP issue covered rather well. IMHO it is the synergy of all those elements - wood, hardware, construction, strings, setup and player - that produce "mwah".
OK, and for the obligatory wisecrack: "mwah" was one of the sounds made by the rising cake in that classic "Little Rascals" episode. To be more precise, my drummer/percussionist refers to it as "mwee-mwah". Had to get that in for all the Little Rascals fans out there.
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#520500 - 04/12/05 12:50 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Father Gino
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Lots of things affect how much Mwah you get. The best description I've ever heard is: "blossoming attack".
Strings. Rounds will give you more. Flats will mwah too (especially TI flats) but there's nothing like roundwounds.
PU placement. Generally you'll get more from the bridge PU. Jaco apparently never used the neck PU on his J bass. Someone told me that it wasn't even wired up.
Where you pluck. More usually near or over the neck. Plucking near the bridge won't get you much mwah, but it's a nice cut through the mix, punchy sound on a fretless.
Action & nut height. More Mwah the lower you go. Or so it always seemed to me. Mind you, an upright can Mwah just fine with super high action and flats.
Relief. Almost none to none. I can't play my Sterling with no relief, but I played a Modulus VJ with a plastic neck that had absolutely no relief and played great.
Your left (fretting) hand. I couldn't tell you exactly how to do this, but I can do it (on a good day). In general, a light/gentle touch with that hand will give you more mwah. Maybe it's even the speed with which you push your finger down. Sliding your fretting hand up while plucking will mwah sorta, and maybe that's related to what I'm talking about somehow.
The fretting hand is the real key. Sometimes you don't want the mwah at all. Sometimes it's annoying dpending on what else is going on with the song.
EQ. boosted mids around 700 hz will accentuate it. bass & treble can be left flat, if not cut.
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#520501 - 04/12/05 01:14 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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cloclo
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the mwah comes from how you put your fingers on the strings (i don't have a fretless, i'm just talking about upright) and how you pluck them.
if you put the part of your fingers from which they take your fingerprints with on the string and pluck with the side of a folded finger (more meat that way) towards the fingerboard then the swelling rumble is there. there is more volume pressing the string. you are not pressing at a certain point but at a certain area which makes the string rub against the fingerboard more. pulling the string towards the board emphasises this.
opposite would be pressing the string with the very top of your finger and plucking it with the side of your finger parallel with the fingerboard. very quick attack and less sustain. gives it a more traditional sound (well, to me anyway).
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#520502 - 04/12/05 02:46 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Bass_god_offspring
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"mwah" is an evil laugh to me.
honestly, i totally thought that when i saw the title. i didn't know it meant something about your bass???? 
i thought of "Mwwah, Ha, ha!!" like Dr. Evil laughing.
(some could aslo think of it as signifing a kiss)
lol, wow, learn something new everyday
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#520503 - 04/12/05 03:02 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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getz76
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cloclo is right on, it's mostly in the hands. I get ridiculous amounts of mwah from my Rob Allen MB2, and it has nylon tape-wound strings on it. They don't get much flatter than that. 
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#520505 - 04/12/05 05:50 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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_Sweet Willie_
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Indeed, tnb, boasting it is!
Unfortunately it's true. That bass has plenty o' mwah. And, yes, it is in the fingers -- particularly the left hand.
Peace.
--Dub $$
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#520506 - 04/12/05 07:13 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Big Red 67
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I have found that sliding up the neck really gets it going. The shorting of the string as you slide makes the string viberate more creating the swell even better. Even a short slide can make the difference. It alows the intonation to improve and adds a voical quality as well.
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#520507 - 04/12/05 07:36 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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cloclo
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#520508 - 04/13/05 01:17 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Davo-London
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Jaco never used his bridge PU? Can this be true? Gawd I've been living a lie ... help!
Anyone developed the extremely difficult technique of lifting off with the left hand just enough to cause fingerboard buzz. I've only heard it used once on record but it can be an amazing effect.
Davo
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#520509 - 04/13/05 01:51 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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musicfiend
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Jaco mainly used his birdge pickup, thats why they say he had a bridge pickup sound...
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#520510 - 04/13/05 02:51 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Davo-London
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"Every action has a complete and opposite reaction." And for that I am very thankful - cheers musicfriend.
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#520511 - 04/13/05 07:37 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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getz76
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Originally posted by Davo-London:
Jaco never used his bridge PU? Can this be true? Gawd I've been living a lie ... help!
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#520512 - 04/13/05 07:54 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Magpel
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As someone with an very amateur interest in sound design, I'm inclined to think that the "mwah" is more of a timbral or "filter" enevelope than a volume envelope, though I'm sure amplitude changes conmtribute to it. And because it is a sound associated with fretless, I'm sure subtle pitch fluctuation is implicated as well.
Mwah. Bwah. or even Brraw
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#520513 - 04/13/05 09:12 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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MattC
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Mwah is what you say when you wish you played URB...
'jus kiddin'
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#520514 - 04/13/05 09:40 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Davo-London
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Are you suggesting Jaco is the only person to get mwah?
Not at all, just that I use 100% bridge PU and 75% neck PU for my favourite Jaco-like sound. I thought that I might be going mad ...
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#520515 - 04/13/05 09:53 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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getz76
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Got it; I usually cop that Jaco-esque tone with a lot more bridge pickup than neck pickup and a heavy right hand very close to the bridge.
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#520516 - 04/13/05 10:01 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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C. Alexander C.
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My frankenfretless mwahs so much I had to crank up the action to stop it sounding too OTT - truely greater than the sum of its cheap parts...
Alex
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#520517 - 11/07/06 07:31 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Phil W
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Bump for a great thread!
. . . and for vesterberg!
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#520518 - 11/07/06 07:51 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Lenny B
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I'm with Magpel - you can get a nice "Mwah" with an Envelope Filter, but you can also get a "Mwom", which i particularly enjoy.
(And don't forget the "Mwow(m)"!)
(PS - Can someone explain "Bump" please?)
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#520519 - 11/07/06 08:02 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Phil W
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When we want to send an old thread back to the top of the 'pile' we can 'bump' it. I thought this one had a lot to read of interest to fretless players and I felt it deserved to be noticed by those newer to the board/allergic to the 'search' function and those like myself who like to read stuff over and over until it gradually sinks in.
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#520520 - 11/07/06 08:03 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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_Sweet Willie_
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"Bump" means to post on an old thread so it rises to the top of the board -- it is "bumped" to the top.
Some great posts from Bassland. 
And, RobT -- R.I.P. 
Peace.
--s-uu
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#520521 - 11/07/06 11:32 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Lenny B
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Thanks for the explanation Phil & Dr.
Bump. Yeh, why not?
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#520522 - 11/07/06 11:39 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Phil W
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Well some forums have 'sticky' posts which always stay at the top, but then there are more and more stickys and new posts in the sticky's are easy to miss. I think the Lowdown approach (provided people search and bump as appropriate) is mre friendly and democratic.
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#520523 - 11/07/06 11:41 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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King Kamehameha
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Originally posted by Davo-London:
Jaco never used his bridge PU? Can this be true? Gawd I've been living a lie ... help!
Anyone developed the extremely difficult technique of lifting off with the left hand just enough to cause fingerboard buzz. I've only heard it used once on record but it can be an amazing effect.
Davo
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"My two Fender Basses, I just call them "Lesbos" because of the time they spend together in the closet."-Durockrolly
This has been a Maisie production. (Directed in part by Spiderman)
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#520524 - 11/07/06 11:47 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Phil W
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Gary Willis recommends it as a means of minimising left hand pressure, demonstrating how little is actually necessary. It's tough work! How did you get on, Maisie?
Of course Jaco only used his bridge PU, so the story goes - but I'm sure he must have experimemted over the years.
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#520525 - 11/07/06 11:50 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Phil W
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 9943
Loc: London, England
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Yes RIP RobT, though he was on the board before I joined.
I miss Bassland's wonderful posts. What is he up too? He invited me to a couple of his rehearsals once, I had family/transport problems: I wish I'd gone!
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#520526 - 11/07/06 03:09 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Chad
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 3434
Loc: Pittston, Maine, USA
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As for "moi", I hate "mwah". It's all over the place! especially in New Age-y or "smooth jazz" applications. Yuck, ptooie. Jaco excluded - but then, it was his sound and he had enough aggression and chops to keep it interesting.
Now, as for "thump", "thud", "slap" and "pop" (these last two used sparingly) - bring it on!
_________________________
"The fat boy in the back was the bass player, and who wanted to be him?" - Paul McCartney
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#520527 - 11/07/06 03:46 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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theTragicRich
Gold Member
Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 708
Loc: Naperville, Illinois
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mwah is the sound that chicks in the crowd make when they're blowing kisses at you during your bass solo...
If only I played in front of crowds... or played solos
Being a fretless player pretty much exclusively, I love "mwah". I love that Jaco tone. I just love the fretless bass tone and expressiveness it's hard for me to even think of playing my fretted bass unless I'm slappin/poppin.
_________________________
[Schecter] Stiletto Studio 5 Fretless | Stiletto Elite 5 [Ampeg] SVT3-Pro | SVT-410HLF my myspace | TheTragicEnd
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#520528 - 11/08/06 09:48 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
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Davo-London
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 2208
Loc: London, England
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I played an Ibanez electric-upright during my lunch break today. Cripes! Talk about finger pressure. I love the URB tone, but it is so cumbersome to play. Total respect to the real fretless (URB) players.
I do fancy a URB. I wonder what my wife will say ...
Davo
_________________________
"We will make you bob your head whether you want to or not". - David Sisk
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#1820007 - 10/05/07 03:37 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
[Re: Davo-London]
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Phil W
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 9943
Loc: London, England
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mwump!
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#1820305 - 10/05/07 05:22 PM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
[Re: Chad]
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Chad
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/15/01
Posts: 3434
Loc: Pittston, Maine, USA
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As for "moi", I hate "mwah". It's all over the place! especially in New Age-y or "smooth jazz" applications. Yuck, ptooie. Jaco excluded - but then, it was his sound and he had enough aggression and chops to keep it interesting.
Now, as for "thump", "thud", "slap" and "pop" (these last two used sparingly) - bring it on!
Remarkable. This was me just 11 months ago. Now I have a fretless bass and suddenly I'm asking a question about "mwah." Though, truth to tell, so far my attitude is "if it happens, it happens." I still prefer "thump" more.
_________________________
"The fat boy in the back was the bass player, and who wanted to be him?" - Paul McCartney
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#1820393 - 10/06/07 02:46 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
[Re: Chad]
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Phil W
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 9943
Loc: London, England
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I played a gig with a dep keyboardist last week. He took one look at the Wal fretless and one at the setlist and went 'huh?' - reggae, 70s rock, blues and rock n roll' with a fretless.
Then I started playing. He told me later that he's completely forgotten I was playing a fretless.
Sometimes it's about controlling the mwah.
I dig playing fretless totally like a fretted for most of the tune and just throwing in the odd little slide, slur or fretless vibrato.
Maybe I should bring fretted bass too but I can never be bothered to haul two basses to a gig.
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#1820431 - 10/06/07 05:01 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
[Re: Phil W]
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C. Alexander C.
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 06/11/01
Posts: 5133
Loc: Brighton, UK
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...I can never be bothered to haul two basses to a gig.
My thoughts exactly!
Alex
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#1820490 - 10/06/07 07:39 AM
Re: What does 'mwah' mean to you?
[Re: C. Alexander C.]
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jcadmus
Platinum Member
Registered: 11/22/05
Posts: 1260
Loc: Connecticut
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To me, it's the sound of Jaco's bass when he comes in on Weather Report's "Birdland."
Not my favorite WP tune, but oh, that tone!
_________________________
"Just bring your Jazz Bass and try to sound like Will Lee" -- Chris Bishop
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