#517862 - 07/23/05 12:20 PM
singing...
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rickyeatworld
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Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 5
Loc: CT YO
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so yeah, here i am again with another problem. I love music. I love playing guitar, i've been playing for a while but still have a long way to go. I have also been sort of singing for a while. however, i haven't really sang that much in a real performance, more just me and another person on acoustic when we're alone. i'm OKAY at singing, but not great. people will usually give me good feedback but i know for sure that i'm not that great. so this year i took voice lessons for a couple months, and i improved a little. my teacher was a woman, and that's okay...but she is more geared toward not what i want to sing. she's def. an opera/jazz/classical/chorus/ whatever singer...and i really just want to do more rock/indie/get my own style. when i try to sing louder, my voice really just sucks. so i'm stuck singing rather soft...and i guess i can have a decent voice when i do that, but it's just not enough. anyone know any good place in nyc i can get good lessons? or i've also heard that i just haven't really sung enough....does a good voice come from constant trying (which i guess i don't do enough) or professional training?
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#517863 - 07/23/05 12:21 PM
Re: singing...
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rickyeatworld
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Registered: 07/22/05
Posts: 5
Loc: CT YO
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oh and....if you check my profile on this site, there should be a link with some of my newly recorded music on there..check it out and you'll see what i mean
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#517864 - 07/23/05 01:46 PM
Re: singing...
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Tedster
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Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 5933
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Haven't checked out your site yet, Ricky, but, most "voice teachers" ARE geared toward operatic singing.
The one thing I can say for sure is that the voice is like any other instrument, it requires practice. That said, a developing singer needs to know WHAT to practice in order to improve. I would say a good thing to do is to learn like you probably learned guitar, by emulating your favorite players/singers. You'll never sound just like them, but you can tailor your voice to sound similar, and that's not a bad thing. Go hear people sing live. Record your voice often...listen critically, and get tips from other local singers you like. Make sure your pitch is true...WORK toward not singing sharp or flat. Singing DOES take WORK...you have to train your muscles to respond in a certain way.
I'll listen to your demo...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#517865 - 07/23/05 02:00 PM
Re: singing...
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Tedster
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Registered: 09/21/00
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There was a profile url which linked to "Sasasa"...I didn't see any music. Models and clothing. Some nice looking models, but I didn't see any music...(shrug)...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#517868 - 07/25/05 12:46 AM
Re: singing...
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Tedster
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Hey, it sounds nice to me! Who's the gal singing with ya?
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#517869 - 07/25/05 01:43 PM
Re: singing...
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RicBassGuy
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 3651
Loc: Metro Detroit, MI
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Hey Ricky, just gave a listen to your myspace. You asked here about a bunch of issues with your voice. I'll try to take them one at a time.
(1) voice "not that great". Well, you won't win American Idol with it as it is now, that's for sure.  The biggest problem on your recordings is the "pitchiness"; you can fix it with autotune or by improving your voice. Other than that, you have a very "listenable" voice, IMO. (OTOH, the pitchiness gives your recordings a rough, edgy, punk sound IMO, that distinguishes them from mass-overly-produced recordings.)
(2) singing soft is not enough. Stick to singing soft for now. For me, it's working. Not every singer sings "loudly", nor do they need to. Also be honest with your "instrument": you won't get the same sound or loudness by plucking a violin instead of bowing it, will you? Be mindful of your limitations and work with them.
(3) your style. This's what it's all about! You need to find your style and develop it. Where you're at now (vocally) reminds me of a old punk (thinkin' Violent Femmes Blisterin' In The Sun) and James Laid. That's not good or bad, that's just you. Let yourself come out!
(4) amount of practice. Tedster nailed this one, but I'll just add this observation: most people I know that sing well have been singing every day since they were old enough to talk, and most also sing every week in church. That doesn't mean you can't become a good singer, that just means you're going to have to work a little harder to catch up.
(5) lessons. NYC has everything, all the time. There has to be a vocal coach in NYC that is everything you want, just ask/look around. But definitely seek pro lessons. It is possible to injure your vocal chords with poor singing technique.
You're young. If you want to improve, you have time (years) to do so, you just need to do it.
Now, allow me to take this a little off topic.
Where do you want to go? Do you want to be the next Alanis Morissette, discovered as a singer/songwriter with just your acoustic guitar in hand? Disregarding your guitar playing and songwriting for the moment, you're going to need top-notch vocals for that. That probably means a combination of pro lessons and lots of practice. For a quick fix, you could team up with someone that all ready has top-notch vocals. Plenty of folk like that in NYC.
[There's no shame in collaboration with a singer. If you look around this forum a bit, you'll see lots of requests from songwriters for singers to sing their material.]
Maybe you're more comfortable just performing coffee houses and small clubs for now. That's fine. Go ahead and get yourself out there; don't wait until you're "ready", or you may never make it out of your practice room! I've heard worse-sounding (IMO) bands than you get paying gigs out here; it may be more competitive in NYC, but give it a try.
In either case, you'll still be able to improve your voice on your own. For pitch problems, it's amazing what a chromatic tuner can do for you. (You sing any pitch and it tells you if you are in tune or not.) Put your guitar down and slowly sing every note/syllable into the tuner until it's right. Then start putting together phrases until you have the whole song down.
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#517870 - 07/25/05 02:45 PM
Re: singing...
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shniggens
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Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 3006
Loc: Denvoid, CO
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Good advice Ric!!!!
[There's no shame in collaboration with a singer. If you look around this forum a bit, you'll see lots of requests from songwriters for singers to sing their material.]
This is an important point. I have struggled for so long trying to sing my tunes the best I can, and am now realizing that I just need to find a good singer. It all comes down to glory. I WANTED the glory of singing my OWN tunes. But as long as I can get my music performed, no matter who is singing it, that's all the glory I need.
_________________________
Amateur Hack
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#517871 - 07/27/05 09:29 AM
Re: singing...
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Fulc
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Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 227
Loc: here I am, you're looking at m...
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A few lessons with a vocal coach will not kill your soul. Geoff Tate of Queensryche is living proof of that.
You stand to gain a lot from learning the proper way to breathe and produce the sounds. You also stand to gain a lot from simply doing it-- in the car, in the shower, wherever.
As much as it may skeeve you out to do it, study Frank Sinatra. There's a reason he was called The Voice-- his timing, his phrasing, and last but not least his technique.
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#517872 - 07/27/05 12:13 PM
Re: singing...
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philbo_Tangent
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Registered: 10/08/00
Posts: 1175
Loc: Iowa
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There are 3 main elements of vocals (3 P's), IMHO:
Pitch
Pocket
Passion
Pitch - can only be developed with practice, and maybe coaching. No substitutes will work.
Pocket (timing) - Being 'in the groove', feeling the beat or rhythym.
Passion - The most important of the 3.
One thing I've found in my years of singing and recording other singers:
Your attitude will ALWAYS show up in your vocal track. If you're nervous, the vocal will sound nervous. If angry, tired, sad, enthusiastic, whatever, that emotion will prodominate the sound of he vocal.
So, if you're doing an angry song, you need to put some anger into your singing, otherwise it will sound lame and insincere. As an example, imaging Yanni singing Steppenwolfs 'Born to Be Wild'
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#517874 - 08/05/05 05:03 AM
Re: singing...
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EddiePlaysBass
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Registered: 06/24/04
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Loc: Belgium
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Well, most has been covered here I guess ... Make sure your breathing is okay, and if you play an instrument, you might want to simplify certain parts. I do backing vox and sometimes simplify my bass parts where necessary.
If you're in a band and you're not the lead singer, make sure your lead singer is a good singer, because I know from experience that if you try backing vox behind a bad singer, you're likely to go off key as well.
That said, doing backing vox in a band might be good practice? I know it works for me anyway ...
_________________________
"... and I'll smile and I'll learn to pretend ..." (Dream Theater - Space Dye Vest) My band - The Dapper Dans (last update: 27/03/2008)
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Moderator: nursers
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) until I was comfortable with the instrumentation. 
