#517829 - 06/16/05 10:13 AM
Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Flemtone
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ok, so I'm trying to write. 35 years of playing other people's songs, I figure it's about time to contribute something, so...
My question: Of the songwriters on this forum, what's the general consensus. Do you write lyrics and fashion your chord structure around them, or write a progression and, after getting the 'feel' the tune emotes, write lyrics to accentuate that mood?
Thanks,
Tim from Jersey 
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http://www.flemtones.net"Poor writing skills are the 60 cycle hum of the written word" -Brother Dave Brown
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#517830 - 06/16/05 11:49 AM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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RicBassGuy
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Registered: 02/02/05
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Loc: Metro Detroit, MI
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Looks like we're in the same boat, my friend! I'm trying to put together my first solo album after years of recording on other people's cds.
This topic has come up before ... if I have time later I'll post the search hits ... but I think this is the first time it's appeared as a poll.
Personally, I'm more of a "composing songwriter" than a lyracist, so yeah, music comes first for me. Music -> emotion -> words. That is, the music inspires an emotion (so the performance is part of the equation), then the words follow from the emotion. One problem is finding words to fit the melody. As a consequence, most of my stuff either has partial lyrics or none at all.
As far as a consensus, you'll find there is none. Everyone does what's best for themselves, and you'll need to find out what's best for yourself.
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#517831 - 06/16/05 03:09 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Deef
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It's not just different with every writer, it can be different with every song. It depends on what impulses are driving you at the moment.
Most writers have notebooks full of random lyrics and tapes and tapes of musical sketches. Write words when they come; write music when it comes. Even in composer/lyricist teams, there is often no set order of creation.
My one piece of advice for a novice songwriter has nothing to do with methodology or discipline:
"Don't be afraid to write a bad song."
Deef
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"Marge, when I join an underground cult I expect a little support from my family." -- H. J. Simpson
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#517832 - 06/16/05 11:05 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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DC
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Originally posted by Deef:
"Don't be afraid to write a bad song."
Deef
That's absolutely right because you're talking about a craft. You've gotta learn it.
I've written songs mostly with the progression first and fit words to that. But then sometimes I get some words in my head and have to make something around them. Sometimes you've got a story in mind, and sometimes you put words together to a chord progression that just fit well.
Anyway, here's some advice:
Like John Lennon said; "Songwriting is easy; say what you want to say, make it rhyme, and put a beat behind it."
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#517833 - 06/19/05 05:09 AM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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PPaul
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Loc: Central NY
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Willie is my songwriter hero - his body of work is phenomenal and been covered by.... everybody!
Personally, I find that starting with a simple little melody works best. Just a few notes, and go from there. Especially if I can whistle or hum it - add points if it sounds good in hte shower.
PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPaul
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#517834 - 06/19/05 08:20 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Tedster
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Originally posted by Deef:
My one piece of advice for a novice songwriter has nothing to do with methodology or discipline:
"Don't be afraid to write a bad song."
Deef
For me...it usually begins with the melody. Most often times...although it varies. Oftentimes a little melody line will repeat itself in my head with a lyric fragment. But for me, personally, I almost NEVER start with a lyric. But, that's me.
As for Willie having hundreds of songs "you wouldn't want to hear"...it's not that he's written bad songs...it's that he can tell the difference between something mediocre and something outstanding. That is the real gift...being able to tell...
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"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#517835 - 06/22/05 12:32 AM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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d gauss
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Registered: 02/15/01
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<>
no set method. usually the song writes itself. i'm just lucky to be there.... 
-d. gauss
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#517836 - 06/22/05 02:38 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Steve West
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Registered: 05/09/05
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Well I swing both ways  but usually a melody first. Once in a while I'll get a phrase or line stuck in my head and find a little ditty to go with it. Sometimes they do seem to write themselves. 
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#517837 - 06/22/05 03:32 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Personally, I try to write the complete song in my head before I ever pick up the guitar. ThenI'm forced to learn to play what I heard, rather than fall back on the same old, tired progressions that (I believe) we all fall back on.
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#517838 - 06/22/05 09:50 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Flemtone
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Registered: 12/18/02
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Loc: Mine Hill, NJ
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Ok, this is just the input I was looking for. Thank you all for taking the time to write and vote. It means a lot to me.
All good advice. Bill, your method intrigues me, though. I've done that (composing most of a song mentally), but I forget a key element or lyric before I can get it either written out or recorded. Makes me want to walk around with a mini-recorder all the time. The goal of writing without the same old tired progressions...hmmmm...
I find myself emulating the styles of different songwriters, though. I guess I need to find my OWN 'voice'. Everything I write seems to sound like a Richard Shindell song (which is ok by me - I love his work), but it ain't ME, y'know? Maybe that's the first hurdle to conquer, or maybe, by more prolific writing, that'll open the door to finding my 'voice'.
Quite the conundrum, eh?
I'll let ya know how it goes. Again, thanks for the words and direction.
peace,
Tim from Jersey
_________________________
http://www.flemtones.net"Poor writing skills are the 60 cycle hum of the written word" -Brother Dave Brown
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#517839 - 06/22/05 10:14 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Bill@Welcome Home Studios
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Originally posted by Flemtone: ... I've done that (composing most of a song mentally), but I forget a key element or lyric before I can get it either written out or recorded. ...
Bill
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"...it's easier than hitting the kids, and almost as much fun..."
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#517840 - 06/26/05 05:38 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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DoctorNo
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When I get an idea for lyrics, typically I just rough them out a bit, kind of like a loose poetical form. I then sit down and lay down the music that I feel is appropriate for the tone I want to capture, then I return to finishing the lyrics.
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#517841 - 06/29/05 10:31 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Ernest Buckley
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Registered: 09/11/04
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Songs come to me usually with the melody and lyric.
My first priority is establishing the melody to work well with the lyrics. Then the chords are experimented with until I found something that works. This depends too on the genre.
The chord progression is not really important at the start for me. The way I look at it is that chords can often be changed later, they do not make the song so my primary concern is the lyric and how the melody fits with it. Most listeners could care less or hear the chord progression and most pop songs follow the same progressions anyway so...
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#517842 - 07/10/05 12:07 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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yidneth
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Registered: 01/26/04
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i think i go with them both at the same time, but the progression of chords maybe have more importance and settles the basis more solid and earlier, then i just keep on messing with the lyrics till they are right. I don't often change the chord progression, in fact i find extremely difficult to put lyrics on an already existing melody and not in the opposite way
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#517843 - 07/28/05 06:08 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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MusicYouCantGiveAway
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Registered: 07/28/05
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I try all sorts of ways to write songs.
Develop just a beat and bass line
Melody first
Lyrics first
Lyrical idea, then bass line, then melody
Title first, then melody, then chords
Chords and structure first
Story laid out on lines like a song
First developing some new sample
I never really care, I like to try things...
~Bob
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#517844 - 07/29/05 03:56 AM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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C. Alexander C.
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Registered: 06/11/01
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Three stages really;
1. Building the progression and arrangement:
I tend to record the faux guitar part for all the changes in roughly the right arrangement, then record the bassline. Maybe add some lead bits then, but usually go straight onto...
2. Improvising the vocal lyrics and melody:
...recording a scratch vocal by just scatting over the song, singing whatever lyrics come to mind. That usually works pretty well, and seems to pick out the essence of what the song's about.
3. Completing and re-recording vocal:
Then complete/rewrite the improvised lyrics, clarify the melody, and re-record the vocal.
Alex
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#517845 - 07/29/05 11:39 PM
Re: Poll: Lyrics or Progression First?
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Red Winger
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Registered: 08/19/03
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I picked Lyrics first, just because, for songs that I write that have a vocal, more often than not the song springs from a lyric, either a phrase, or an entire passage, that inspires the mood and the melody. However, I agree with all said above about how it varies from song to song. Some songs are based on a melody line, a riff or a chord structure, from which spring the lyrics. Others are just a beat and the lyrics are more of a riff that rides the beat.
--Mark
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-Elvis Presley (1935-1977)
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