#514387 - 06/11/02 03:10 AM
I want to be heard!!!
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starving_artist2
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Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, UNITED STATES
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Whats going on? I guess you guys have been having some pretty intense conversations in here, I'm sorry to interupt as someone out of the loop. I have a question for all of you? Where do you guys send your completed songs? After I send them in to the Library of Congress, I never know what to do with them. I'm a member of ASCAP and all, but I want to be heard!!! I need help! Tell me you guys, what do you guys do to get published? You know, I've been using that new service called Inside Sessions, the website is just Inside Sessions. They have a program for songwriters with some very very useful information. Basically, established songwriters like Bernie Taupin, Will Jennings and more I don't remember talk about their secrets to success. Also, and this was really cool, when you register for the service, you get to submit a song to a Universal Music A & R for written feedback about structure, lyrics, and originality. I know, what do these guys know right? Well, all I do know is that when I get my feedback back, I hope I get that publishing deal they offer to like the best three songs, I think I have a good chance man. Anyway, what do you guys do to get published?, now that I've shared a secret with all of you.
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#514388 - 06/11/02 07:23 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
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Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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If you are an established member of ASCAP, that should mean that you HAVE been heard.  It's in their bylaws that you must have commercial airplay in some type of status to merit a full membership.
You say that you belong to some outfit called the Insiders ??? I've never heard of them, but that doesn't mean anything. There are a million and one businesses willing to take your money so they can tell you who they have talked to and what they can do for you. They can actually scroll down a list of credits to their name; but the big question is, if these people DO have the contacts established inside the music business.... Are you any good???
If you were ACTUALLY as good as you THINK you are by SCREAMING out your demands to be heard; if these guys taking your money are on the up and up, then you should have been signed by now. Keep in mind, everybody out there has a potential of being the next superstar........ and they can be with the right people backing them. If these professionals are offering constructive criticism; well, perhaps you're NOT as ready to be heard as what you think you are. Listen to their criticism and LEARN from it!!!! Either you have not lived up to the expectations in the quality of performance, at least not enough for them to stake their reputations by submitting your materials to Record Labels as top priority listening; or you're swimming in a tank with sharks and they are telling you that you should have the very next hit..... the next time around.
Perhaps you should take a deep breath and read the contract that you signed with ASCAP before trying to jump to the top of the charts. Study the music business, buy some books on the subject... not those that brag about how the people got rich over night, but those that give you sound, and solid advice as to negotiating terms with experts and those that outline strategies that build a foundation for you to stand on.
Butting your head around like a goat in a barnyard will only bring you headaches, upon headaches. Learn from those willing to teach; if you don't trust in paying the ones you are currently dealing with, then try enrolling in some music business college courses. I noticed that you are in California by your signature; you might try Berkley, or maybe UCLA....... there are many good educational facilities in Calif. relative to the music and entertainment industries.
If you do have education in the field, inquire as to internships with different phases involved in the recording production or broadcast of radio or television. Get involved with the business of the business. It's the best advice I can offer, because when you surround yourself with those who know; it is when you learn what they know!
If you are just another hit song WAITING to happen, join the list of wannabees that know they are better than the best on the radios. Good Luck to you.
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#514389 - 06/11/02 03:57 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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aaron.p
Senior Member
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Burbank,CA,UNITED STATES
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Starving Artist,
Watch the show called "Driven" on MTV/VH1 or whatever specific version of those channels it's on. Specifically, watch the Britney Spears episode. It's like an hour or two and it's really serious information about how she got where she got to. I'm not a fan and the fact that she's famous actually disgusts me, as far as "artistry" goes. But after you get past the severe envy that may come up (hey, I'm honest - as yet another person who wants my music heard by millions, I was jealous) there's something really worthy to be learned there. Read this next sentence until it sinks in: Britney never had a single song to offer anyone. She became the biggest current pop star through doing everything ELSE she needed to do to get herself there OTHER than having song. My point is, there is a degree of all that other stuff (getting your face out there, meeting as many insiders as you can any way possible, networking until it's coming out your ears) that is necessary to reach your goal. There's no debating this. It's a fact. If you haven't been heard (as much as you'd like) then your ratios of effort toward writing great tunes compared to networking are out of whack. Befriending the right people opens doors that a great song by an unknown (all on it's own) in today's music industry will NEVER do. This is a hard lesson for songwriters who would prefer to just spit out music and have the world arrive every Monday at the door to deliver it to the masses, leaving you to go back in your hole and write more tunes. It means overcoming fears and doing hours and hours of work that has nothing to do with writing songs. I'm on the path I just described and it's been rough. "Business" interests me about as much as watching grass grow, except in watching grass grow there's no pain of rejection. So taking on the extra career of busting my ass peddling my music to bean-counters is actually worse than watching grass grown, because there's pain in it. But you gotta do what you gotta do.
Aaron
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#514390 - 06/11/02 11:06 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Here's the skinny!
From Demo to Deal is Your Foot in the Door of the Music Industry.
Have you got the talent but need the access? Let over 75 top recording artists and industry professionals teach you the ins and outs of the music business. Learn how to build a successful career from the top names in the music industry, including Sheryl Crow, Sting, Elton John, Sharon Osborne, Tommy Mottola, Russell Simmons, and many more (meet our faculty).
Brought to you by Universal Music Group, the largest record company in the world, From Demo to Deal is an Internet-based program that teaches you what you need to know to transform your passion for music into a successful career as a recording artist or industry professional.
Want to get your demo heard, even evaluated? When you sign up for From Demo to Deal, we GUARANTEE a Universal Music Group A&R executive will listen to your demo. Upon request, we'll even send you WRITTEN feedback.
Good a place as any to toss away $100.00.
You'd be alot better of with Taxi.
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#514391 - 06/12/02 12:04 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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rog951
Platinum Member
Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 1626
Loc: Ijamsville, MD
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Methinks the spammers are attempting cleverness...and failing miserably. :rolleyes:
_________________________
None more black.
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#514392 - 06/12/02 02:09 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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Originally posted by rog951:
Methinks the spammers are attempting cleverness...and failing miserably. :rolleyes: 
Didn't the starter of this topic refer to himself as the STARVING artist
Given his rather profound introduction demanding to be heard; I would say that his act of desperation speaks for itself. This poor chap is willing to BITE on anything. It doesn't surprise me that anyone would be willing to throw out bait because this boy is ready to go... HOOK, LINE, and SINKER!!!  As Cheech and Chong would have said.... "Hey man, wanna buy a watch?"
HEY Starving,
So you're ready to market you STUFF????? Are you the performer of your own materials, are you currently touring or performing live locally, and do you have a following? If you do not perform your own materials, then do you have them placed with a band capable of getting your songs out there to BE heard? You say you want to get heard; what have you got to listen to and what means have you gone to so to provide access to your materials if someone were to express an interest?
If I were to say to you, okay kid, show me what you've got............... what have you got to show me? Be PREPARED to back you bark when someone pulls out a leash!
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#514393 - 06/12/02 01:06 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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max
Senior Member
Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 235
Loc: newcastkle,,AUSTRALIA
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dye your hair blond and get a boob job
cheers
max
newcastle, oz
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#514394 - 06/12/02 04:18 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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aaron.p
Senior Member
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 30
Loc: Burbank,CA,UNITED STATES
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gee, if this guys a fake I guess I got taken.
aaron
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#514395 - 06/12/02 05:46 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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rog951
Platinum Member
Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 1626
Loc: Ijamsville, MD
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Originally posted by aaron.p:
gee, if this guys a fake I guess I got taken.
aaron  )...
_________________________
None more black.
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#514396 - 06/12/02 05:53 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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JonnyClueless
Senior Member
Registered: 10/28/01
Posts: 169
Loc: Linwood,NJ,UNITED STATES
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Think I could get more chicks if I got a boob job?
For the record, Britany was an aspiring artist, not songwriter, so it shouldn't be of any surprise or abnormality that she didn't approach the record companies with songs. Christina Aguwhatever's big break was singing accapella for an A&R guy with no songs. She too fo course is an artist and not a writer (not to mention a very talented singer). :-)
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#514397 - 06/12/02 10:18 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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Originally posted by aaron.p:
gee, if this guys a fake I guess I got taken.
aaron 
I'm merely telling Starving Artist to cool his tracks or he's opening himself up to a lot of frustration. You've got to build a foundation upon which to build your castle; for those without structure who start at the top shall fall fast with the first real gust of wind.
I looked up Inside Sessions and realized they are the same as Demo to Deal, which I have heard of, and in conducting an ownership search on the company; they are owned, as stated previously, by Universal Music Group. Just because the company is supported by a well recognized name within the industry... it DOES NOT assure you a record deal. YOU as an aspiring artist HAVE certain requirements that YOU must meet to fit the mold.
A & R Directors have been out in the field for decades seeking new talent for developement. These guys have traveled thousands of miles, and have exhausted thousands of dollars in scouting expenses; nevertheless, they have had to listen to a lot of dogs howl, screech owls screech, fish gargle, toads croak, and so on... Either that, or the perfect sounding group that promotes a quality sound has group controversy, irresponsibility, or inconsistencies that are not workable. Now with the convenience of the internet, the spammeisters (call em anything you wish) have found a way to sort through some of the stacks and stacks of Gabaaaaaaaaage, and actually make their jobs a little bit easier... Yes, they are actually having people PAY them to get their talents heard. Smart business tactics if you ask me.
There are many sharks that clutter the salty waters of the music business, so you have to thoroughly investigate the credentials of an organization prior to paying for memberships. There are tons of resources available to assist one in finding out specifics relative to owners of a company. ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC all have massive databases where one can inquire about status involving authors, composers, publishers and producers. NMPA is another good place, NARAS and so forth.... AES for record engineers........ There are ALL kinds of places where one can inquire as to credits listed. If nothing else, ask the Joe's in the company you are seeking to do business with as to what Professional Organizations they are affiliated with; then confirm it.
If you are dealing with a reputable company, (or even the individuals within) that has proven abilities to market materials, your money spent is not in vain. Take advantage of the offering of constructive criticism because it is there to enhance your knowledge. If you don't feel that you are advancing your expertise with each additional evaluation, then perhaps you don't make the cut, or you are dealing with the wrong organization.
If you are submitting the next generation Beetles, or Eagles act in your demo submission package to be reviewed... well, if you pack the punch that the market is asking for at that time... NO A & R Rep is going to be dragging their feet for very long in getting you signed. You might be that bonus check at the end of the year, that promotion they've been seeking, or the lead that saves their butt in keeping their position! If you are THAT GOOD, you have already been heard by someone capable of helping to advance your career.
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#514398 - 06/12/02 10:57 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Sylver
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 4672
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Originally posted by rog951: Originally posted by aaron.p:
gee, if this guys a fake I guess I got taken.
aaron
Dak, I checked out a lot of these places and it seems to me that Taxi is the only one that is worth it's salt. I think if you want to sell songs commercially, it may be a good way to break in.
Now for you singer/songwriters out there, here's MY secret(If you care). Trying to get to the record companies is a longshot a best. There's Millions of people out there with computer recording setups making demos. If you're 19, with a hot body, a great face, and an ok voice someone is sure to notice you.
Otherwise, trying to breaking to the recording industry is next to impossible.
So, should we give it up and go with the day jobs? HELL NO!
If you want to be a real force in music, the way to do it is simple. Too simple, and it's something that people have gotten away from and it's the reason that music is so cold and generic these days.
We've got to take it to the people.
Performance.
If you can't do it live, the best studio in the world can't help you. You have to go into clubs and just knock 'em dead. Create a buzz with your music and performances. Do that and you can write your own ticket. I'm sure of it. All I have to do is test out my theory. F the record companies! Music is for the people, and they need to hear it live. Hear a song on the radio that you like, and the next moment it's a fleeting memory. See a killer live act, that makes your hair stand on end and you'll remember them forever.
Well, that's what I think, anyway. I have a bunch of other theories relating to all this, but I can't give you guys all of my secrets. Not yet, at least.
_________________________
I really don't know what to put here.
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#514399 - 06/13/02 12:18 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
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Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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Rog, you're right on the mark, this guy is spam all the way. Notice he has one post, and hasn't checked the thread since posting. He won't be back.
 And the lightbulb FINALLY goes off  
Thanks Sylver, I didn't pick it up when Rog mentioned it earlier. I read through Dak's post and I was wondering how in the heck that it could been interpreted as spammin! I didn't realize that it was the first snake in the thread that hooked me; Hook, Line, and Sinker.
As far as the rest of your post goes; I find it hard to believe that people put SO much authority in the hands of the Record Labels.
In the following statement
" Trying to get to the record companies is a longshot a best. There's Millions of people out there with computer recording setups making demos. If you're 19, with a hot body, a great face, and an ok voice someone is sure to notice you. "
You seem to be confusing TALENT with IMAGE.
IMAGE is what it takes to make one a Superstar; if the talent isn't there, just throw in a pitch correction here and there and clean up the sloppy vocals. Editing is a great feature in modern technologies. Teen Pop Stars are like CLONES; manufactured and produced a dime a dozen. If one's performance does not live up to the expectations of their owners; they send them out in pieces and bring up the latest edition. Unfortunately, the older models have been so used and abused that there is not enough left of them to scrap.
Talent is what it takes to plant the seeds for an artist to feed on! The SONGWRITER, mind you, is not DATED IN AGE; but instead grows more seasoned with time. The song does NOT die, as it is reborn with each new artist that elects to use it in their performance. The song shall live long beyond the life of it's performer if it is well written.
For another remark you made,
Otherwise, trying to breaking to the recording industry is next to impossible.
You give far too much credit to the record industry. Who's says that the narrow market supplied within the recording industry is the only market for SONG??? Who cares so much about the politics of the record industry when all that's being played on commercial radio stinks. There is a very broad market for talented composers and songwriters; away from the recording industry. If they have talent and are skilled in their fields; in familiarizing themselves with all available markets they will find success. Commercial Airplay for Radio, Jingles, Instructing Music Education, Designing Music Programs, Film Scoring, Contributions to Charitable Organizations.... the list continues.
There hardest part of songwriting is sometimes the pain that inspired the song! Once you've got beyond the doors that slammed shut on your heart, opening doors to the rest of the world is easy! The goals that we set for ourselves determine the levels that we acknowledge success. I myself have accomplished levels of success that I never dreamed were possible. Not all songwriters wish to be on stage flaunting their everything and not all talented singer/songwriters elect to sell their souls out for the sake of fame. If I never sell a song to a record label I would not feel sad; I have conquered much higher goals in life. To have the knowledge, the resources, and the abilities in technology to communicate with music professionals all over the world is far greater than what any contract could ever offer.
For the record;
I was approached by a major Producer from New York while dabbling in Nashville years ago.......... The LOOKS thing; I walked away from his offers because my values have always been far superior to the sake of a dollar or a moment of fame. I've met many highly accomplished music business professionals, and it's those who are extremely successful that are humble and kind individuals.
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#514400 - 06/13/02 01:29 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Originally posted by Sylver:
[QBWe've got to take it to the people.
Performance.
If you can't do it live, the best studio in the world can't help you. You have to go into clubs and just knock 'em dead. Create a buzz with your music and performances. Do that and you can write your own ticket. I'm sure of it. All I have to do is test out my theory. F the record companies! Music is for the people, and they need to hear it live. Hear a song on the radio that you like, and the next moment it's a fleeting memory. See a killer live act, that makes your hair stand on end and you'll remember them forever.
[/QB]
On the other hand, if you want to be heard now, sell your soul to the devil & you'll still get screwed.
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#514401 - 06/13/02 12:28 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Sylver
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/05/01
Posts: 4672
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Originally posted by anifa:
You seem to be confusing TALENT with IMAGE.
[/QB]
You give far too much credit to the record industry. Who's says that the narrow market supplied within the recording industry is the only market for SONG??? Who cares so much about the politics of the record industry when all that's being played on commercial radio stinks. There is a very broad market for talented composers and songwriters; away from the recording industry. If they have talent and are skilled in their fields; in familiarizing themselves with all available markets they will find success. Commercial Airplay for Radio, Jingles, Instructing Music Education, Designing Music Programs, Film Scoring, Contributions to Charitable Organizations.... the list continues.
For the record;
I was approached by a major Producer from New York while dabbling in Nashville years ago.......... The LOOKS thing; I walked away from his offers because my values have always been far superior to the sake of a dollar or a moment of fame. I've met many highly accomplished music business professionals, and it's those who are extremely successful that are humble and kind individuals.
Anifa, I don't disagree with anything that you are saying, I think it is all about the talent, but I think that there are a lot of people that put all of thier hopes into getting signed, and I've come to believe that if you focus on that, then you're selling yourself short!(Not you personally, that's a general you)
_________________________
I really don't know what to put here.
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#514402 - 06/13/02 06:51 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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starving_artist2
Member
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 4
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, UNITED STATES
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How dare you guys accuse me of spamming!!
what, just because I have a busy enough life where I don't have the time to check up on postings and stuff.
as far as my screen name goes, I was trying to prove a point, I know it lacks originality
anyway, I was just trying to share with you guys a method I've used to get myself HEARD, and you know what, short of plugging the product again, Inside Sessions has worked for me, I submitted my demo to an A & R and got a ton of feedback from the perspective of the Record Company. This information is INVALUABLE, are you kidding me? You guys can go on believing you can make money at what makes you happy without the Record Company, but honestly, lets be real
I was just trying to share with you guys as a way to break into your precious conversation, of course thats translated as spamming
whatever
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#514403 - 06/13/02 09:38 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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rog951
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Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 1626
Loc: Ijamsville, MD
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Hey man,
If you come on here and your first post promotes a company, ANY company, even semi-ambiguously, you're gonna get accused of spamming. Especially when the company happens to be in the same business as hundreds of other companies run by total shysters. If you're really here to help people and/or to learn, lay back for a while, make some helpful suggestions or share some of you songwriting experiences. If you turn out to be genuine, I'll be the first to apologize to you. I'm still betting you're a spammer, though. PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG!!!
_________________________
None more black.
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#514404 - 06/14/02 01:24 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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What Rog said. And, things must have hit pretty darn close to home for you to get upset. If you hang around here for a bit of time & see how things are, I think you'll understand and really like this forum, and others here on Musicplayer too. If not, go away, we probably won't miss the spam, nor will we miss the attitude.
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#514406 - 06/14/02 02:09 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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 Ditto, Roger!!! Ditto, Dak!!!
Starving Artist,
I'm not one opposed to offering insight to serious newcomers relating things that I have learned throughout the years. In your first approach you appeared to be ambiguous about your affiliation with an organization, and in a way asking the opinion of others. Now, you are adamant about your position and SCREAMING how good it's been for you; perhaps you'd better check you drawers because I smell a foul odor. If you KNOW everything to begin with, or you are too pigheaded to learn; why bother asking? Personally, I won't be wasting my time any longer with you.
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#514408 - 06/14/02 12:12 PM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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Rog I was writing my last post timed at 11:09 while you were writing your post timed at 11:04. I had not yet read your post when I added mine. Hysterically enough, our minds were on the same thought... must be that KARMA thing.
You posted at 11:04:
Sorry, but I smell the unmistakable odor of BULLSHIT!
I posted at 11:09:
perhaps you'd better check you drawers because I smell a foul odor.
Too funny!!!
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#514410 - 06/15/02 12:48 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Anifa
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Registered: 03/26/02
Posts: 3572
Loc: Kansas City, Mo
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I'm not always so eloquent in my speaking habits; I try to refrain when there's a possibility of leaving paper trails.
I hope I didn't offend Dak in mentioning the confusion in how it could have possibly been his post; at first I didn't know what was coming off here when the talk about spamming began. I noticed that Dak had taken Demo to Deal's actual pitch line off of their website, and yet he mentioned Taxi as the better bet so I knew it wasn't him; but I couldn't figure out if the culprit was the MTV thing or what!!! Aaron seemed to be offering assistance too.... Anyway, tis water under the bridge now.
Dak, I hope you're not upset with me.
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#514411 - 06/15/02 12:58 AM
Re: I want to be heard!!!
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Nah! Not a bit Ani'fa. I didn't think it was directed at me. With my dealings with you, I know you're intelligent enough to figure things out.
That thing I threw up there from the actual website was a kind of hit on ole Starvy. I figured if he was semi legit I'd toss it up there & let him know Taxi was a better option. Hey if he, or anyone else wants to throw a hundred bucks away, throw it MY way. Just send me a PM & I'll get back to you with a PO box you can send it to.
I can always use a hennert here & a hunnert there.
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