#513756 - 04/18/02 12:16 PM
William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 1128
Loc: PA, USA
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I had these well started when this forum started so my apologies that they may a bit more developed than is required. I've got some stuff I'm started on that is a bit too raw at the moment but when ready I will try to post in a
pre-production form in the future.
The tunes:
This Ain't My Dream:
http://www.mdvl.net/~wfturner/ThisAintMyDream.html
Life's Been Hard For You:
http://www.mdvl.net/~wfturner/LifesBeenHard.html
Shirley:
http://www.mdvl.net/~wfturner/Shirley.html
While I like these tunes very much, I'm not sure they will ever be commercially pitchable in my mind because they're written from a very personnal
level, a mode I seem to be in due to an onslaught of medical challenges, hospital stays, in home medical care... blah blah blah that I've experienced the last year or so.
I think I'm finding more satisfaction along the technical/engineering aspects of these projects rather than the writing/story telling side.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513758 - 04/21/02 12:01 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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Thanks Dak.
BTW: I've listened to your stuff and I find
your talent intriguing somewhat unique. I generally get around to listening to everything that comes around in all these forums. I'm just
not usually inclined or feel qualified to play the role of critic. I find listening to an individual's work on here helps lend an insight into the online personality.
Once again thanks.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513759 - 04/21/02 01:25 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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SkiNNY MulLIGan
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Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 113
Loc: CANADA
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WF....i think your tunes are great and maybe even more "commercial" than you may think...i don't know if you take that as a compliment, but i do mean it is one...since you put these songs up to get people's opinion, i hope a little bit of criticism isn't out of line...first of all, like most of us, you seem to not like your own voice...personally, i think your voice is very good and suits the songs very much, but i think you try to over produce it by doubling it and i think you're flanging it too, if i'm not mistaken...i think you should have more confidence in your voice and not procees it so much...in "this is not my dream", it seems the drums can't decide weather they want to play straight 4/4 or play a shuffle beat...they seem to be sort of fighting with themselves over what kind of feel they should have and it gets distracting from what i think is a very good song...(i'm a drummer mainly, so maybe it's just me being over crirical)...as you can see, the only so-called "criticism" i have is more with production issues than actual talent and song writing...i loved your songs and it's not even my type of music...and it definitely sounds like it comes straight from the heart...good luck...ray
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#513760 - 04/21/02 04:30 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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Posts: 1128
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Thanks for the comments Rammer-Ray
The vocal's aren't a confidence problem for me in a musical sense, but more a physical problem due to numerous health problems... dynamics, the physical component of singing. I'm getting stuff in my signal chain that I hope will be enough of a
crutch to get a signal recorded that I'm more happy with and won't need to be processed as much after the performance... I got two young son's with great voices who are interested in cutting some of these vocals for me but I been in and out of the hospital the past 3 or 4 months
and haven't found the stamina to get it up for long periods of time it might take to get some of these things acomplished. Working alone I work in short spurts.... one of the miracles of this
digital revolution. 
The percussion on Ain't My Dream tune, I've been looking at reworking that and a finding general dirtier mix on that tune over all.
Thanks again.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513761 - 04/21/02 05:10 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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SkiNNY MulLIGan
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Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 113
Loc: CANADA
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well, you must truly love making music if you still managed to create something so good despite being in far from the best health....more importantly than the music, i hope your health co-operates to allow you to keep creating for a long, long time....God bless you (if she's listening)
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#513762 - 04/27/02 12:32 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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This is as raw as I get in public;) and
I'll keep it in this original folder.
These are basically the four scratch tracks I usually set up when I start arranging a song.
The vocal is pretty raw, recorded flat with a touch of limiting, some noise reduction and a
small amount on a compression plug after the fact, everything has a touch of EQ just to get
a blend for now.... a couple of quick acoustic leads where some kind of instrumental will
go. Feel like I'm standing here in my boxers.
http://www.mdvl.net/~wfturner/WarminUpHerSweetLove.mp3
Not really fishing for comments. Just thought I'd share this stage of my process.
Once I get this step done, I usually can start hearing a bunch of things to do
to the song musically and usually, and they have, the little tweaks and changes
that I think will tighten up the lyrics come to me and get noted for a revision when
I later tackle a final vocal.
Warming Up Her Sweet Love
You've taken her for granted, too many times she's left alone
You realize just how she feels, you come home and shes's gone
Now all you say or do, tears love apart
You know there's no simple way, to win back her heart
Now warming up her sweet love
Could be an easy game to lose
It's gonna take some special moves
To warm up her sweet sweet love
Walk her beneath the summer moon, tell her she's pretty when she smiles
Pull her close as the night air cools, and hold her for awhile
Touch her with a loving hand, tell her she's your friend
Promise you're her faithful man, then hold her once again
(Chorus)
Copyright 2002
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513763 - 04/28/02 04:43 AM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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William, you may not be looking for feed back but I'm gonna throw it on ya anyway.
Outstanding tune. This is where your other songs should be. Clean, bare & to the freaking heart. You don't write any bad songs that I've seen or heard but the over production on the other stuff is what I've complained about before. This is where you need to be man. All the feeling is there for everyone to feel. This is a song that I'd be proud to use in my sets. I don't ever do anything that doesn't mean something, somehow, to me, & this one does.
It may not make it as a hit, but anyone that has the opportunity to send the song to the hit makers and doesn't is an idiot. Damned fine stuff my man. I'd like to hear your earlier songs that in the same way. WHEW!
I'd still like less MIDI...
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#513764 - 04/28/02 03:39 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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>>William, you may not be looking for feed back but I'm gonna throw it on ya anyway.
Outstanding tune. This is where your other songs should be. Clean, bare & to the freaking heart. You don't write any bad songs that I've seen or heard but the over production on the other stuff is what I've complained about before.<<
Well I certainly appreciate you taking the time,
and having studied some of your stuff, which I admire, I value the input tremendously. From seeing you're picture, I've developed the assumption that you and I and our love for writing come from a similiar era... for me it was
a time when guys like Dylan, Nelson, Newberry, Kristoferson, Jerry Jeff and a bunch of others could play a guitar and sing their tunes, not all that well by a musicians standards, and publishers and artists could hear and smell the gold.
To me it seems somewhere along the time the multitrack came along and all this technology which started somewhat slowly yet now is at a revolutionary speed, trickled to the average person like you and I, publishers developed a disease which I always joke to the wife as... lazy ear-itus. The more we get our hands on the worse their disease becomes.
Actually I know way more about midi, arranging and this recording stuff than I ever wanted or felt I should need to know... from another era type of songwriters point of view.
Just recently getting my hands back on an acoustic again for the first time in a long while made me realize how much I just like to write.
I like to write, play guitar and play bass. A bass is in my budget next month. I've slowly been working back to a simpler frame of mind.
It's an age where you almost have to make something comparable to a record to get it listened to but you're right... it's gotta be simpler. Wish I could get my hands on some of the old Newberry records I somehow lost between marriages. Always figured if a songwriter had to make records, that was the way to do it. His records were sweet and simple.
Thanks again.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513765 - 04/28/02 05:04 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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Tedster
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Registered: 09/21/00
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Originally posted by WFTurner:
I've developed the assumption that you and I and our love for writing come from a similiar era... for me it was
a time when guys like Dylan, Nelson, Newberry, Kristoferson, Jerry Jeff and a bunch of others could play a guitar and sing their tunes, not all that well by a musicians standards, and publishers and artists could hear and smell the gold.
You guys should get an online collaboration going. I'd love to hear what you all could come up with jointly...
_________________________
"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine...(WAH WAH WAH WAHHH!)"
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#513766 - 04/28/02 06:48 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Originally posted by WFTurner:
[QB Wish I could get my hands on some of the old Newberry records I somehow lost between marriages. Always figured if a songwriter had to make records, that was the way to do it. His records were sweet and simple.
Thanks again.[/QB]
I still have Live at Montezuma Hall/Looks Like Rain and Lovers. Really good music.
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#513767 - 04/30/02 10:47 AM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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Posts: 1128
Loc: PA, USA
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>>you and Dak should be putting tunes together. You guys would definitely rule the roost in the country folk thing.<<
You might have a great idea there Tedster. We have some differences in taste in production ideas but under it all it's seems we come from similiar type of taste and influences.
Unless you have something like a cable or some other high speed ISP, the online thing seems cumbersome to me. We have gotten pretty cheap cable access available now locally. Just haven't made the plunge yet. Would have to put a network card in and haven't had the courage to do something that's gonna screw up my now almost perfectly working DAW.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513768 - 05/01/02 02:11 AM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Wow!
I'd be all for it. WFT & I do seem to have a lot in common & could very well put a really good collaboration together.
The one problem on my end is I just started a new job to pay those pesky bills. It's not what I wanted and is an interim thing but it requires lots of hours so my time would be limited. If time weren't a factor, I'd be all for it if William is willin' & doesn't mind a time lag.
William, the modem or lan card won't affect your system any more than the modem you have in it. I'm on dsl so I have decent up & down loads. The cost of a dedicated phone line with all the access charges & taxes was within $5.00 of the dsl line. The speed difference more than made up for that. If you have cable or dsl available, jump on it. You won't be sorry.
Yak at ya all later.... 
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#513769 - 05/03/02 03:33 AM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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BassGuy
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Registered: 02/17/02
Posts: 262
Loc: ,,UNITED STATES
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William,
Thanks for posting your songs! I admire your creating heartfelt music - you're an inspiring example of "making lemonade". I've had family members and friends with comparable health challenges ... I can imagine that it's truly been a labor of love for you to write these songs and learn how to push the buttons to be a one-man-band recording project.
In my opinion, the songs are close to sellable. To me, the key point of good country flavored music, like with the songwriting heroes you mentioned, is that it tells a story of real people facing real life. I think almost everyone could immediately pick up on the stories of the songs, having either been there themselves, knowing someone who's been there, or being able to imagine and empathize about what it would be like to be there. Your voice is obviously honest and from the heart. The melodies are memorable, fit perfectly with the lyrics and there are some nice guitar licks too.
I hope the remaining comments will come across in a spirit of constructive suggestions. The last thing I'd want to do is to deflate your confidence or seem to be overly critical. However, you did ask about commercial use of the songs, so here goes. 
If you really wanted to sell the songs, you could do a few tweaks to make them more commercially appealing. There are plenty of good books about structure, rhyming and rhythm patterns, turnaround progressions and so on that would give you the last 5% of the icing to your 95% finished cake.
My problem is with the production. The samples and sequences just don't work for me. The drums and violin don't play things a real drummer and a real fiddler would play, and when they come close they have a sameness of canned sound that a real player wouldn't have.
I'd suggest that you consider getting up to three collaborators.
One would be a low-percentage co-writer who would add a polish to your songs. This person might work with you to find words that mean the same thing but line up more consistently; or to slide around some of the chord changes to where they are easier to catch on the first listening.
The second would be a producer who would take over the arranging, with live drums, bass, fiddle, pedal steel, and keys (exclusively piano, Hammond organ, and Rhodes).
The third would be a singer who would do an alternate vocal track on everything. Your own singing could go on your own albums, mp3's and soundtrack/library submissions, while the smoother singer would go on demos you shop to the recording/publishing industry for other artists to cover.
I'd love to work with you myself, but I don't think I have the time between my current job hunt, and my new all-originals band having its first gig next weekend. Maybe some other forum participants with extra time could do their own cover versions of some of your songs and post them back to the forum! There's at least as much room for different styles and approaches with some of your work as there was with "Tom's Diner"!
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#513770 - 05/03/02 01:53 PM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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WFTurner
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Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 1128
Loc: PA, USA
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BassGuy:
Thanks for the comments and the food for thought. I know the points
you bought up are things I think about constantly as I'm sure any other
writer does.
DAK:
I'll be getting that cable hookup in the near future. Probably ain't gonna
be this month now cause I blew this months allowance last night snaggin a bass
and mandolin. Drop me an email - in my profile - with you're ideas on how some kind of
almost real time colaboration attempt might be possible over the net. For me it would
have to be more real time than swapping sound files. I'm giving it some thought and search.
_________________________
William F. Turner Songwriter turnersongs Sometimes the truth is rude... tough shit... get used to it.
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#513771 - 05/04/02 03:35 AM
Re: William. F. Turner - not so raw this time and as raw as I get in public
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Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
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Originally posted by WFTurner:
Drop me an email - in my profile - with you're ideas on how some kind of
almost real time colaboration attempt might be possible over the net. For me it would
have to be more real time than swapping sound files. I'm giving it some thought and search.
I'm also involved with the local Experience Unlimited support group. They helped so much while I was out of work, and as a group, we're doing a presentation CD. I've been involved in the audio production, such as it is & we may be recording a new vocal set in the next few days and that may delay things a bit. It doesn't look like it will affect things anyway until you're up and running on dsl or cable.
I'm charged...
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