#513466 - 04/07/02 10:39 PM
Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
Offline
|
|
hi, i dunno the drill on song threads yet, but i'll try it anyway (kill me if i'm wrong!)
anyway, after my band recorded our demo i tried the usual threads in SSS and key-corner, but didnt really get too much constructive criticism, just comparisons to other bands etc.
you guys mostly seem to be pretty in the know, so could anyone suggest some production ideas for our stuff (the one real crit were getting is our self indulgance)
i'm especially intreasted in your opinions of the songs 'studio blues' , 'moon icicle' and 'abandoned' as i think there the 3 songs going on the demo to be sent out to the wide world.
thanks!
-starfucker
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513467 - 04/15/02 04:20 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
|
Offline
|
|
anyone!?
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513468 - 04/16/02 04:20 AM
Re: Help with Production
|
Dak Lander
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/10/02
Posts: 7728
Loc: Temecula, LoCal, USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Hey Star, I left a note on the other thread. This stuff is pretty good. Reminiscent of some Animals stuff. Studio Blues seems to waver a bit & then steady out & rock, the waver again  . By & large there's a pretty good start here. I'll get back to the others when I can.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513469 - 04/16/02 12:19 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
halljams
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2689
|
|
Offline
|
|
The good things are:
- the band has great energy and sounds enthusiastic.
-The vocals are good, singer has a good sounding voice.
-The songwriting is pretty damn solid with lots of good ideas.
The bad things are:
-The guitar sound sounds too NON-real, too direct and compressed.Playing-Good Guitar sound-needs work(a decent tube amp cranked up should do it)
-as a band you guys need to watch each other for overplaying, i'm hearing it in all instruments at various times, it's not over the top crazy but it still needs some taming sometimes.The guitar and keys step all over each other at times.
-A little bit too often the time is unstable. This will put you out of the running faster than a singer that can't sing.(although sometimes the groove is really great)
It sounds mostly due to everyone just being so excited to play(which is very cool) and it comes up more on the jam style tunes than the arranged stuff, but as a group and as individuals you're all going to have to start being concious of it, because it is a problem,if you want to compete on a global scale anyway.
People(listeners) NEED to feel a solid groove.It can be goofy but it has to be solid.
I hope you take this a constructive criticism.
Your band is great, but in the interest of getting better and competing with the rest of the world, these are the things i see as needing work.
Thanks for sharing your music 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513470 - 04/16/02 07:41 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
|
Offline
|
|
Thanks for that. real useful stuff
the main reason (i think) the timing went off was when we were recording sometimes i couldnt hear the bass over the organ in my cans. it was a pain in the ass but hey!
the guitar tone is damn awful all right, though it is a Marshall JCM600 Tube amp. it was recorded with an sm57 but yeah, i dunno what the hell happened it in the mixing. I dont think it was cranked up enough though.
The guitar and keys step all over each other at times.
thanks guys
-starfucker
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513471 - 04/16/02 08:37 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
halljams
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2689
|
|
Offline
|
|
Bot if that guitar sound is comin from a marshall, you best have a talk with the recording and or mix engineer. A 57 should do just fine.
I don't have time to re-listen right now for the exact spots. I went through all your songs and noticed it mostly in 2 songs that were quite jammin. The first one for sure.
It's more that either the organ or guitar need to confirm a pad or very basic role while the other takes some liberties. Like i said it's not too over the top but i noticed it. I couldn't figure out which one i was supposed to focus on. this could be fixed up to a certain extent in mixing also.
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513472 - 04/17/02 05:09 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
Guest Room Warrior
Senior Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 248
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Star - I know you're looking for production advice. But there's no point polishing a performance that isn't all there. First, let me tell you what I like about "Studio Blues" and "Moon Icicle:"
The singer is really interesting, with a Bob Dylanish quality that I find appealling. The songs are not bad, and the guitar player (while stuggling against that honky midrange sound) seems to be the most accomplished of the musicians.
Here's what isn't working:
The drummer doesn't really "groove." He's playing patterns that fill a 4-beat measure, but without much life... and when he gets excited in "Studio Blues," he loses the beat. The bass player (who is mixed too loud, BTW) may have some chops, but doesn't have much to lock into with the drummer. The keyboard player is not only overplaying (noodling away at single note lines continually under the vocals and guitar parts) but does so in a fairly robotic manner.
If it were my band: I would have some practice sessions where the whole band jams to a metronome. NOBODY is allowed to play a melody or a lead part for at least a half hour. All you're doing is concentrating on listening to each other and grooving together in time.
I'm not wishing to be harsh... I just want you to know what I'm hearing, since you asked.
_________________________
Jim Bordner
Gravity Music
"Tunes so heavy, there
oughta be a law."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#513473 - 04/18/02 02:15 AM
Re: Help with Production
|
UncleTom
Senior Member
Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 97
Loc: USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
what GRW said..... 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513474 - 04/18/02 09:56 AM
Re: Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
|
Offline
|
|
well, thanks for the honesty. i suppose i should have explained some of the things about the recording.
we're all 19 year olds still in full time edcuation so we couldnt afford too much time in the studio. if a track didnt work second cut then it was tough luck and we kept it. same went for the mixing. (this was in high-insight a false economy but its easy to say that now!)
The keyboard player is not only overplaying (noodling away at single note lines continually under the vocals and guitar parts)
In the mixing somehow (though i really should stop blameing the poor Eng.!) everything i played below Middle C seemed to get cut out completly and the piano assumed the most awful brightness.My guess (oh hope) is that this is really giving the impression of "one noted-ness" too much. (is that what you mean by "the singer struggling against the honky midrange sound" isnt it?)
but does so in a fairly robotic manner.
I'm not wishing to be harsh... I just want you to know what I'm hearing, since you asked.
-starfucker
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513475 - 04/18/02 11:51 AM
Re: Help with Production
|
Guest Room Warrior
Senior Member
Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 248
Loc: Fort Wayne, IN USA
|
|
Offline
|
|
Star - Rats! I'm sorry, dude, but I just KNEW I was going to be saying something unflattering about your playing. I was hoping you were the guitarist.
Seriously, I understand the pressures of trying to get a band cooking while you maintain a real life. And now that you point out the instrumental origins of your tunes, I can see why the parts tend to fight with vocals, etc.
But I'm not kidding about those all-groove all-the-time rehearsals. Think of your keyboard as a tuned drum, and get into the pocket.
_________________________
Jim Bordner
Gravity Music
"Tunes so heavy, there
oughta be a law."
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#513476 - 04/18/02 01:45 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
|
Offline
|
|
Yeah i'll definatly give this groove practise a go (though it gonna be difficult cos the guit player/singer has moved to switzerland for 6 months for work experience...Damn real life!
cheers
-starfucker
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513477 - 04/18/02 05:01 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
halljams
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 05/26/01
Posts: 2689
|
|
Offline
|
|
Starfucker, my first impression of your band was that you guys were still pretty young. The energy gave it away.
I'd just like to say that you are all kiking serious ass for you 19yr olds, and please don't let all the points that have beem brought up here discourage you. It's hard to find honest, educated critcism for many reasons, But i believe you have got some in this thread, so please try to take it positivley and use it to rise up.
BTW, i thought the keys and the vocals were the most mature sounding voices in the band. Very tasty. 
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513478 - 04/18/02 06:24 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
garsa68
Member
Registered: 04/15/02
Posts: 2
|
|
Offline
|
|
shite name for a young band mate,used to be a band up in aberdeen called gin doctors,sorry never got a listen connection failed.....
yeah you got the style
yeah you got the knack
keep moving forward
never looking back.....
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
#513479 - 04/19/02 04:59 PM
Re: Help with Production
|
Cowfingers
Gold Member
Registered: 04/10/01
Posts: 625
Loc: Cork ,IRELAND
|
|
Offline
|
|
It's hard to find honest, educated critcism for many reasons, But i believe you have got some in this thread, so please try to take it positivley and use it to rise up.
shite name for a young band mate
thanks,
-starfucker
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
Moderator: nursers
|
|
|
