#512314 - 04/16/04 01:30 AM
School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Thomas K
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Registered: 11/04/00
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Loc: Atlanta, GA
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The majority of vocal sounds today (sticking to rock/pop music) seems extremely tight to me. Over the past few days I have heard Zeppelin a few hundred times on radio (Atlanta) and I wonder about the techniques that were used then as opposed to now.
For instance, Plant's vocals seem very dynamic and loaded with excitement. He screams his ass off yet there still seems to be a mile of headroom left over. I hear very little compression - or if it is there my attention is not drawn to it.
I know we have been in the middle of loudness wars for awhile, so more compression is the norm. And even though I have my own personal bias on the subject, I'm more interested in the point/counterpoint of the techniques.
Thanks,
Thomas
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#512315 - 04/16/04 02:20 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Jason Poff
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Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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You may be hearing fader rides or the combination of that and more subtle compression than todays pop/rock standards. Just a guess though.
Jason
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#512316 - 04/16/04 02:39 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Bob Olhsson
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I think vocals are performed much closer to the mikes today than they used to be. This is partly because people have become used to not recording in real studios.
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#512317 - 04/16/04 03:00 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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blackbox
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Registered: 04/13/04
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Loc: Memphis TN
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I gotta agree with Bob here. I noticed a few years ago this same thing and took note that all the more experienced engineers I worked with kept the singers off the mic about a foot! Sometimes the mic would be up high pointed down at the vocalist's mouth, and sometimes the mic would come over the top of the music stand pointed slightly upwards. I think the difference is that when the vocalist is not "eating" the U 47 the mic captures a more realistic signal. Akin to what you might hear if you were standing in front of the singer. When a they eat the mic it would be akin to the singer blasting directly into your ear canal.....ouch.
I'm sure somebody else can come up with a better explanation than me, but I think capsules and electronics definitely come into play like that.
I for one have enjoyed this method of pulling singers off the mic 8-12 inches. I also encourage them to "work" it as best as possible. I don't use as nearly as much compression and when I do it enables me to utilize a much slower attack.
_________________________
I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to.
Elvis Presley (1935 - 1977)
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#512318 - 04/16/04 04:28 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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natpub
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Loc: Austin, TX
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I would add that the lack of really interesting rooms and spaces is a part of why people have moved in on the mic. What once passed for intimacy, has now become a stick up the ass.
-KT
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#512319 - 04/16/04 10:38 PM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Thomas K
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It's just that there is such a difference between the times. Is it only the distance from the mic that makes me hear the headroom? Or is that there is so much compression used these days that it really doesn't matter. I feel like I can't breathe when I listen to rock vocals on the radio.
Bob, can you give me an insight as to how they did it at Motown - distance from mic, gear used? Did they compress heavily going to tape or just rely on the tape compression.
Thanks,
Thomas
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#512320 - 04/17/04 01:34 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Bob Olhsson
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We worked anywhere from six inches to five feet during the same vocal. The studios were really quiet and uncolored so there were not huge timbrel changes with distance. I wouldn't call the acoustics interesting, just very usable unlike most project studios. It's funny, I think the room makes a much bigger difference on vocals than drums.
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#512321 - 04/17/04 02:23 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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blackbox
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Hmmmmm.. Motown? That brings another thing to mind. When I was an assistant, I noticed that on bombastic r&b/soul projects, where vocalist are really all that as opposed to today's usual rock crap, it was only a matter of having the mic in the same room as the singer! I remember this one girl who was all over the vocal booth, sometimes singing at the ceiling or back wall. Kinda lets the mic be a mic. It sits there and captures the performance instead of being a 2 lb bag trying to hold 5 lbs of crap! I think modern vocalists and engineers try to use proximity effect, massive compression, and the suprise! im in your face! thing to overcome weak talent.
There are times when this is appropriate and I think it works, ie Tom Petty, Ryan Adams, Lucinda Williams, but often in the rock world it turns to offensive, compressed mush.
_________________________
I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to.
Elvis Presley (1935 - 1977)
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#512322 - 04/17/04 06:56 PM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Thomas K
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What would be some good suggestions for a good acoustic room to do vocals? I have a smaller booth with which I have deadened (for Hip Hop vocals) and a larger room dominated by sheetrock and 703 baffles. I have three 8ft baffles with cloth/703 on one side and wood on the others.
Thanks,
Thomas
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#512323 - 04/17/04 08:30 PM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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KenElevenShadows
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Loc: Los Angeles,CA,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by winterrae@mindspring.com:
What would be some good suggestions for a good acoustic room to do vocals? I have a smaller booth with which I have deadened (for Hip Hop vocals) and a larger room dominated by sheetrock and 703 baffles. I have three 8ft baffles with cloth/703 on one side and wood on the others.
Thanks,
Thomas
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#512324 - 04/18/04 04:14 AM
Re: School me on old vs. new sound vocals.
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Thomas K
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Loc: Atlanta, GA
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I was referring more to the materials around the mic. Would it be better to have a soft wood like cedar, etc.
Thomas
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