#512204 - 04/16/04 07:10 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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doug osborne
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Originally posted by DAS:
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Adding 24 faders of automation would have pushed the price point significantly higher. And they probably figured that since the whole point of this console seems to be working with PT (or other DAW) that would be the mixing platform anyway. Why add the cost for something that would rarely be used?[/QB]
If a Flying Faders equipped console would control PT fades and mutes, would you consider that useable?
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#512205 - 04/16/04 07:27 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Philip O'Keefe
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Originally posted by Ultra left & right: Not that is my problem, Phil, but I have never understood your investments. You could have sold your ELAM's long time ago and gotten yourself a SSL, or at least a HD-system. Instead you're working on lots of small stuff, only capable of 48KHz, with terrible second hand value  .
BTW, my whole room is 96 KHz capable... but I rarely use it at that fs.
I can see where some people might think I need an SSL, but let's look at the realities - at least from where I sit.
My electrical bills are in the mid three figure range. Double or triple that if I install an SSL (actually, I'd personally prefer a Neve or API), because of the extra juice it would require as well as the increased demands on my A/C system... which I'd probably have to beef up, which also adds to the costs.
Yes, my CR is large enough for a good sized console, but I like not having to move far out of the sweet spot. And again, if I put in a mega console, my rates would have to go up in order to recoup the costs involved - and this marketplace (about 60 miles east of LA) just won't support that.
So yes, I tend to invest a large percentage my money into front and back end things, such as mics, preamps and monitors. Those are things that will tend to not become outdated and can serve me for a long time to come. I also think that those are pretty critical areas of any reocrding setup. The advantages of different preamp "flavors" is something I personally like, and if I went the SSL route, I'd be buying a ton of "one flavor".
So right now, I'm more interested in trying a bunch of cool outboard preamps and comps and letting those companies woo and impress me.  It just seems like a better investment from where I currently sit.
Again, YMMV.
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#512206 - 04/16/04 08:48 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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drew
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It's not about what you can get for the same money. It's about what you want/need to get YOUR work done and what it's worth to you. I'm sick of people saying "well, for the price of (insert "overpriced" gear here) I can get XYZ...... If you want/need a 24ch XL9000k and a DAW controller look at the AWS900.
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#512207 - 04/16/04 08:56 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Ultra left & right
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Well, respect Phil  .
I wonder if anybody can explain, from the information we've got so far, if it's possible to mute each aux on the AWS 900. If that's not the case, how would I then be able to use outboard eq's( to be used for effects or more mixdown-channels )in a proper manner?
Ultra
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#512208 - 04/17/04 02:02 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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dr.sound
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DAS
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Member # 35943
posted 04-16-2004 08:22 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SNIP
Even Lucasfilm, when they bought all of those 9Ks a few years back had them all retrofitted with Flying Faders!
-------------------
DAS
Those were NOT SSL 9K's. Those were SSL 5000's
One of the worst products SSL ever made. They don't even support them any more. Only a few were sold (for Film Re-Recording).
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#512209 - 04/17/04 10:09 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Green Latern
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You chaps forgot one thing abou the SSL. The work flow on it, is simply the best. It also looks very impressive, and if you have a commerical studio, I would think about owning this first. It is great that SSL came out with a mixer under $100,000, and about time.
I think all of us would not mind working on a SSL mixer every day. Not to mention you can get better converters than the ones on the DM 2000. But this is all relative to your wallet.
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#512210 - 04/17/04 01:32 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Loco
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Of course, you can get a 4064 G+ for about the same price...
_________________________
"There's no right, there's no wrong. There's only popular opinion" Jeffrey Goines
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#512211 - 04/17/04 01:45 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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RKing
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Originally posted by drew:
It's not about what you can get for the same money. It's about what you want/need to get YOUR work done and what it's worth to you. I'm sick of people saying "well, for the price of (insert "overpriced" gear here) I can get XYZ...... If you want/need a 24ch XL9000k and a DAW controller look at the AWS900.
Rob
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#512212 - 04/17/04 03:31 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Geoff Grace
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While I think that the DAW controller features are a nice addition, I'm not sure I understand the focus on this aspect of the console. After all, isn't a basic appeal of an analog board its ability to mix outside of the box?
Best,
Geoff
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#512213 - 04/17/04 03:53 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Henchman
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Originally posted by Ultra left & right: Well, respect Phil .
I wonder if anybody can explain, from the information we've got so far, if it's possible to mute each aux on the AWS 900. If that's not the case, how would I then be able to use outboard eq's( to be used for effects or more mixdown-channels )in a proper manner?
Ultra
I don't see why you couldn't mute the aux like every SSL I've worked on.
_________________________
IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
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#512214 - 04/17/04 04:14 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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popstar
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Originally posted by Geoff Grace:
While I think that the DAW controller features are a nice addition, I'm not sure I understand the focus on this aspect of the console. After all, isn't a basic appeal of an analog board its ability to mix outside of the box?
Best,
Geoff
I'm with you there. I LOVE SSL products, and while I totally applaud them on putting out a product at this price point, there are some weird aspects of this one. I mean, I would have rather had more compressors and less mic pre's. Also, how about at least some VCA automation on the analog side? No recall? I mean, thanks for the DAW control, but their implementation is just not extensive enough. I don't know...I'm not nuts about this one...
pOpSTaR
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#512215 - 04/17/04 09:29 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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KSmith
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Good idea, bad execution! Where do you put the keyboard and mouse? Seems like there oughtta be some place in the middle for that so you don't have to put the computer UI off to the side somewhere.
32 channels would make a lot more sense than 24. Pretty much everybody has at least 24 analog outputs, which leaves zero faders for analog effect returns.
And no automation? Half the reason to mix with an analog desk is to obviate or reduce the need for software faders. And half the reason to use an SSL is for the dynamics but all you get is the master buss compressor. Seems like it's missing a few effect sends too.
At nearly $3K per channel it really oughtta have these things. SSL audio quality isn't mystical enough to justify that kinda price for a sort of console, sort of daw controller.
I believe it was tron who earlier noted that current LA rates for studios are approaching mid 1980's levels...and engineer rates are not far behind.
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#512216 - 04/17/04 11:23 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Green Latern
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I think the reason for no automation is due to the fact that most people record in DAW's these days, and they wanted to have a unit that met those peoples needs. Not to mention more affordable. I agree 32 channels would of been nice, but then again, to keep the price down they stayd at 24. If you get one of their channel strips, it is over $3,000 a piece so I would not complain about that. Just a different perspective here.
Personally if I had a building a pro studio, I would highly consider this new SSL. Working with it and Nuendo would make a great marriage. True I would still use my Great River, Neve, and Focusrite ISA 428, but then you would do the same in any studio.
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#512217 - 04/18/04 12:53 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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3D Audio
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Originally posted by Green Latern:
Personally if I had a building a pro studio, I would highly consider this new SSL. Working with it and Nuendo would make a great marriage. True I would still use my Great River, Neve, and Focusrite ISA 428, but then you would do the same in any studio.
I know very few people that would give up their outboard pre's or want 24 -32 of the same thing, except for API or 80-series Neve owners. And with preamps like the API 3124 at $650 a channel or even 12-channel lunchboxes for less, or the True 8 channel at $300 a channel, those are both very cost effective alternatives.
Automated faders, snapshot aux send recalls, Class A summing on a stereo bus. I think many people would get very excited about that.
_________________________
Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc Home of 3dB
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#512218 - 04/18/04 01:05 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Philip O'Keefe
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I'd be more interested in something like that than either the SSL or Digidesign offerings Lynn. Pretty much for the exact reasons you stated.
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#512219 - 04/18/04 01:09 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Thomas K
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"Automated faders, snapshot aux send recalls, Class A summing on a stereo bus. I think many people would get very excited about that."
Amen.
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#512220 - 04/18/04 04:35 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Aaron Carey
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I dont understand how its not automated. If its got moving faders controlled by a DAW how is it not automated?
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#512221 - 04/18/04 04:52 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Philip O'Keefe
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Originally posted by Aaron Carey:
I dont understand how its not automated. If its got moving faders controlled by a DAW how is it not automated?
Actual automation of audio channel faders can be handled a few different ways. One of those ways is to record fader moves and controller moves by moving the appropriate controls on the mixing console, which sends that information out via a cable into a MIDI track on the DAW software, and play it out via a MIDI (or MIDI over USB or Firewire, or whatever) cable to the mixing console. The Yamaha 01V96 has the capability to externally automated this way.
What people are commenting on is the lack of an onboard automation program, or sequencer if you will, that requires no external computer interaction. Feed it time code (off of a striped track on 2" machine for example) and it will chase to it and perform the automation moves at the correct locations.
I'm not sure if this new SSL product even has scene recall capabilities... but in any event, you can usually send and save console parameters via MIDI to the DAW program, and do your recall and automation that way. From what I understand, this is the only form of "automation" this SSL has - IOW, no onboard automation.
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#512222 - 04/18/04 09:59 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Green Latern
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QUOTE]Someone's going to catch on and make an automated line mixer with maybe no EQ or pre's or comps on the modules. Automated faders, analog summing, line trim and aux sends. It seems that's "what the world needs now."
Automated faders, snapshot aux send recalls, Class A summing on a stereo bus. I think many people would get very excited about that.[/QB][/QUOTE]
I agree with you to a point. However I think everyone would agree that doing automation inside your DAW gives a much better work flow than doing it on an external mixer. Plus usually all the extra bells and whistles that come with the DAW mixer which make it even more enjoyable.
I personally would be very happy with a whole row of the improved SSL mic pre's. But as always, on vocals, and maybe acoustic guitar
you will have your favorite pre to use. And many times (depending on a session) you will want different pre's for particular session. However drums, keyboards, percussion, and maybe even backup vocals would sound great through the SSL pre's.
When people go into a studio, they still want to see a WOW factor, and this SSL gives it a lot more than a DM 2000.
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#512223 - 04/18/04 11:02 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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popstar
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Originally posted by 3D Audio:
[QUOTE]Someone's going to catch on and make an automated line mixer with maybe no EQ or pre's or comps on the modules. Automated faders, analog summing, line trim and aux sends. It seems that's "what the world needs now."
Automated faders, snapshot aux send recalls, Class A summing on a stereo bus. I think many people would get very excited about that.
A used SSL 4k would serve that purpose nicely at the same price as their new AWS, no?
ps
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#512224 - 04/18/04 12:54 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Bill Mueller
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popstar,
Yes, and give you a good automation system. Fifteen years ago I bought a 4048 (short loaded to 32) for the studio I worked at for $125,000.00. That board has only depreciated about 60% in that entire time. Amazing.
Bill
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#512225 - 04/18/04 08:59 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Henchman
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Originally posted by Green Latern:
[QBHowever I think everyone would agree that doing automation inside your DAW gives a much better work flow than doing it on an external mixer. [/QB]
_________________________
IMDB Credit list President George Washington: "The government of the United States is in no sense founded on the Christian Religion." President Abraham Lincoln: "The Bible is not my book, nor Christianity my religion."
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#512226 - 04/18/04 09:09 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Duardo
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However I think everyone would agree that doing automation inside your DAW gives a much better work flow than doing it on an external mixer.
wrong. a dedicated mixer has a much better work flow.
-Duardo
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#512227 - 04/18/04 11:39 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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DAS
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It seems to me that SSL, while not giving up the fight altogether, realized that there is a large market that will never purchase their big $700,000+ consoles for mixing. In effect, they've realized the trend to DAW as mix platforms and asked themselves the intelligent question of what can they offer those who work on DAWs for mixing. The reason this console doesn't have automation (If I can read between the lines) is that it was never designed to be a mixing console, only a recording console.
Adding an automation package for this would significantly raised the price. Besides, when was the last time any of us did a 24 track mix?...if lately, it's an oddity. This is a recording front end (probably a good one for that matter) and it has the advantage to be a controller for a DAW. The idea for mixing of course still gives the option to go out of the box and pickup a compressor or EQ and even split the mixes out for some good old SSL buss squash if you want it.
To me, selling this console with automation makes no sense.
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DAS
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#512228 - 04/19/04 06:36 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Aaron Carey
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to me, it is semantics, there IS automation and its the automation YOU choose, just go ahead and use whatever software you are familiar with, create some blank channels and record away and edit with mouse or faders, all of your fader moves.
I am MUCH happier given the choice of which automation system to use than being saddled with a single one
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#512229 - 04/19/04 11:00 AM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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System 8
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If your work flow is in your DAW, you will need a very good controller to equal the work flow of a good hardware mixer. Then I would say they are pretty much the same.
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#512230 - 04/19/04 03:51 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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Keyplayer
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I'd like to know if George or anybody has actually tried this puppy out. Any hands on experiences to relay yet?
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#512231 - 04/19/04 05:45 PM
Re: Hey George. "Baby SSL?"
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KSmith
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Someone's going to catch on and make an automated line mixer with maybe no EQ or pre's or comps on the modules. Automated faders, analog summing, line trim and aux sends. It seems that's "what the world needs now."
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