#511845 - 04/06/04 10:37 PM
latency and delay comp question
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ryst
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Registered: 08/20/02
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I am really confused. When i hear people complain about latency it's usually during recording.(?) And then i hear people complain about plug ins that add latency and phasing to the mix. Is this an issue during mixdown too? How come i don't hear phasing in my mixes? I don't hear any delay when i have plugins on my tracks. I already understand latency during recording. I would like someone to explain to me the issues with latency during mixdown and how delay comp would help solve this problem. I can't seem to hear anything wrong with my mixes and i have quite a few pro engineers who think they are good.
thanks!
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#511846 - 04/06/04 11:10 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Jason Poff
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 330
Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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Plugin latency is usually short enough to not be too noticable unless you mix an unprocessed signal with a processed one. Take a stereo drum overhead and copy it. The sum of the tracks should sound exactly the same as a single track only louder. Now put a compressor with a 1:1 ratio but not bypassed on just one of the tracks. You should be able to hear the phasing caused by the latency of the compressor. Sometimes if the latency is great enough (altiverb or the like) it messes with the timing of the track and has to be compensated for either automatically (i believe sonar does this) or manually by shifting the processed track forward by the exact amount of the latency induced by the plugin.
Jason
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#511847 - 04/07/04 03:03 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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ryst
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Registered: 08/20/02
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Thanks for the reply! So this latency with plugins happens the same with recording and mixdown? I need to know so i can pay more attention to my mixes if there is latency happening during mixdown that i am not listening close enough for. I guess i see why delay comp is so important!!!!!
thanks again
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#511848 - 04/07/04 05:04 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Jason Poff
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 330
Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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It's not really the same. When tracking, latency is related to the buffer size. The bigger the buffer the longer the delay. Plugin latency is just the amount of time it takes for the plugin or chain of plugins to think about the processing. You can test the latency of a particular chain of plugins by recording a transient signal, like snare drum, through the chain to a separate track. The length of time between the unprocessed and processed track is the latency time for that chain. My program at the moment is Digital Performer, which does not have latency compensation and I think I'm switching to Logic for just this reason. By the way, if there are any former DP users out there who've switched to Logic, I'd love to hear opinions and experiences.
Jason
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#511849 - 04/07/04 10:02 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Neil Wilkes
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Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 511
Loc: London, UK
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There should also be a plugin manager somewhere that will tell you the latency (in samples) that each plugin introduces.
There are a lot that add none at all, but the way it all works depends on your main host.
For Example.
Nuendo compensates throughout the entire signal path.
The previous version of Nuendo only compensated on insert effects, not group channels or FX send effects.
Logic PC only compensates on inserts. Logic 6 and higher on Mac I believe has full compensation, as does Sonar, as does Cubase SX 2.
The sample slider mentioned is a free download from AnalogX. Cannot remember the URL, but google will. The UAD-1 has a delay compensator included.
Hope this helps.
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#511850 - 04/07/04 10:21 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Raki
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Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 40
Loc: Seattle/United States
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Can printing a plug-in help? 
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#511851 - 04/07/04 10:38 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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steveD
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Registered: 08/19/01
Posts: 232
Loc: Derry,NH,UNITED STATES
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Printing a plugin will include the latency in the printed track.
It works like this:
Playback audio -> Insert Plugin (with latency) -> recorded audio
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#511852 - 04/07/04 10:52 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Jaimo
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Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 114
Loc: Franklin, TN
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Logic PC only compensates on inserts. Logic 6 and higher on Mac I believe has full compensation,
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#511853 - 04/07/04 01:38 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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M Kearns
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Atlanta ,GA,UNITED STATES
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In Pro-Tools you can check for plug in latency, (can't remeber away from my machine....it's become muscle memory), by either Apple or command clicking on the volume bar in the assignments column.
It's easily adjusted by nudging the audio up the appropriate number of samples or by making sure the latency is matched on all of the tracks originating from that source.
The phase problems from uncompensated plug ins can really kill a drum sound in particular.
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#511854 - 04/07/04 01:38 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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M Kearns
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Atlanta ,GA,UNITED STATES
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In Pro-Tools you can check for plug in latency, (can't remeber away from my machine....it's become muscle memory), by either Apple or command clicking on the volume bar in the assignments column.
It's easily adjusted by nudging the audio up the appropriate number of samples or by making sure the latency is matched on all of the tracks originating from that source.
The phase problems from uncompensated plug ins can really kill a drum sound in particular.
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#511855 - 04/07/04 01:44 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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M Kearns
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Registered: 09/09/01
Posts: 25
Loc: Atlanta ,GA,UNITED STATES
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Sorry, somehow I managed to send the last post by accident before finishing.
Was going to say, that the new digi software is supposed to auto-compensate. Guess I won't be finding out soon if it works. This is the year to upgrade the mic-pres & can't afford to go upgrade my system & plug-ins at the same time right now.
Marty
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#511856 - 04/08/04 11:06 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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ptuzer
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Registered: 02/24/02
Posts: 479
Loc: Toronto
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Originally posted by M Kearns:
Sorry, somehow I managed to send the last post by accident before finishing.
Was going to say, that the new digi software is supposed to auto-compensate. Guess I won't be finding out soon if it works. This is the year to upgrade the mic-pres & can't afford to go upgrade my system & plug-ins at the same time right now.
Marty
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#511857 - 04/08/04 11:08 PM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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psalad
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Registered: 04/25/00
Posts: 136
Loc: Redwood City, CA
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Well, Cubase SX and Nuendo offer plugin delay compensation everywhere I believe.... sends, inserts, groups, etc. I think the only exception is on inserts of vst intruments, if I remember correctly. It's very nice to not have to worry about it!
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#511858 - 04/12/04 03:50 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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jimmymio
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Registered: 09/05/02
Posts: 421
Loc: petaluma, ca
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In response to Jason who asked about Logic users whp switched from DP, try logic-users@yahoo.com. You will find plenty of them there. JP
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#511859 - 04/12/04 06:26 AM
Re: latency and delay comp question
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Jason Poff
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 330
Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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Thanks man.
Jason
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