#511802 - 04/06/04 12:46 PM
akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Jason Poff
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Registered: 05/11/01
Posts: 330
Loc: Lexington, Ky.UNITED STATES
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Hey guys,
I tried a borrowed pair of these on aco. guitar and drum overheads about a year ago and fell in love. I now
have the dough but am unsure which of the original models, c-451e, c-451eb (ck-1?), or the new version, has the most pleasing sound. Also, I can't tell if the new version has the switchable capsules. Seems like it doesn't. Anybody got a clue?
Jason
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#511803 - 04/06/04 01:16 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Raw-Tracks
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Registered: 03/29/04
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I have not A/B'd the newer version to the older one's. I do like the new version, however. The new version does not have removable capsules.
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#511804 - 04/06/04 01:33 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Mats Olsson.
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Don't overlook AKG 452, it uses same capsules but often cheaper than 451 on the used market, and just as useful - not identical but very similar sound. (I prefer 452 over 451 for acc guitar.)
/Mats
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#511805 - 04/06/04 01:34 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Stephen Fortner
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Registered: 01/18/01
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I have an older pair of 451EB's that I absolutely love. They only have the cardiod capsules, but here's a trick: you can turn them into pseudo-omnis by covering the "gills" on the side with tape. Use a good gaffer's tape that won't leave too much sticky crap, and trim little strips to size.
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Stephen Fortner
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NewBay Media LLC
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#511806 - 04/06/04 03:51 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Philip O'Keefe
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I have not tried the new ones yet, but I always liked the old 451 EB's with the CK1 capsules. Has anyone done a side by side with the new ones? How well do they hold up?
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#511807 - 04/06/04 05:46 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Bob Maus
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Malibu, CA, UNITED STATES
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I have a good matched pair of 451EBs and liked them fine when I first purchased them, but after getting them modded, (which upgrades the head amp components) these mics really opened up, with more gain and overall airy quality. Not as spitty sounding as originals.
If you like the older models, they give you an upgrade path plus the ability to use other capsules, like the Blue Large Diaphragm Capsule for the 451/452.
The reissue ones do have different electronics from the originals, but have a non-removable capsule, so the mod cannot be performed on them. I have never used a newer version so can't comment on that.
Bob
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#511808 - 04/06/04 08:54 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Ruairi O'Flaherty
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Registered: 01/04/02
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Hey all,
I have both a matched pair of the new C451 B and an unmatched pair of the older C451 E which I bought used about a 6 weeks ago. I haven't had the time to conduct any listening tests as I have been too busy mixing several projects. I like the newer 451Bs for some stuff - hats, acoustic gtrs in busy mixes, some percussion. I will try to do some side by side tests in the next few weeks. Perhaps I could even post some clips in time.
I will probably get the Jim Williams mod on the older ones, all the reports seem positive,
cheers,
Ruairi
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#511809 - 04/06/04 08:56 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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PlugHead
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Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 139
Loc: Whitehorse,CANADA
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Originally posted by Bob Maus: I have a good matched pair of 451EBs and liked them fine when I first purchased them, but after getting them modded, (which upgrades the head amp components) these mics really opened up, with more gain and overall airy quality. Not as spitty sounding as originals.
If you like the older models, they give you an upgrade path plus the ability to use other capsules, like the Blue Large Diaphragm Capsule for the 451/452.
The reissue ones do have different electronics from the originals, but have a non-removable capsule, so the mod cannot be performed on them. I have never used a newer version so can't comment on that.
Bob
No experience with the new 451B's, but I also have a pr. of C451E's, and now the BLUE lollipop capsule, and I have to say - look out! This capsule will change your mind on the 451 body - it's a whole new microphone! As for the sound of the 451E - it's very bright, but quite defined, and I love it on acoustic, and overheads. I have CK1's, and a CK9 (long shotgun) capsules - well worth finding a used pr of 451's and stocking up on capsules, and potentially getting the mics upgraded - I know Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades) does a well respected job - anyone know what he charges for the mods?
regards,
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Jay
PlugHead Productions
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#511810 - 04/06/04 09:59 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Bob Maus
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Malibu, CA, UNITED STATES
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I know Jim Williams (Audio Upgrades) does a well respected job - anyone know what he charges for the mods?
btw, if you like the Blue capsule w/o the upgrade, you'll probably like it more with the mod. Also if you have the Blue cap, you've gotta check out the. InnerTube 451 Tube Mod Awesome with the Blue cap or a CK1. Huge is the word I would use.
Bob
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#511812 - 04/07/04 12:04 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Bob Maus
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Registered: 12/14/01
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Loc: Malibu, CA, UNITED STATES
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I'm more than intrigued, but i bet it's more than I'd want to cough up: no mention of price on Stayne's site - what is it ?
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"Don't confuse enthusiasm with progress"
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#511813 - 04/07/04 09:01 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Ruairi O'Flaherty
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Registered: 01/04/02
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I am seriously curious about the Blue capsule option. Bob you say that the Jim Williams mod will further improve the 451/Blue combination? Time to get on the phone to Jim.
BTW I spoke to him just 3 weeks ago and the 451 mod was $100 per mic at that time,
cheers,
Ruairi
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#511814 - 04/07/04 11:32 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Bob Maus
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 57
Loc: Malibu, CA, UNITED STATES
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I am seriously curious about the Blue capsule option. Bob you say that the Jim Williams mod will further improve the 451/Blue combination? Time to get on the phone to Jim.
BTW I spoke to him just 3 weeks ago and the 451 mod was $100 per mic at that time,
OK, the Blue cap will thread onto the 451 body, so if you do the mod, the cap benefits from the head amp upgrade.
Bob
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#511815 - 04/08/04 02:47 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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PlugHead
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Registered: 08/06/01
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Loc: Whitehorse,CANADA
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Originally posted by Bob Maus: I'm more than intrigued, but i bet it's more than I'd want to cough up: no mention of price on Stayne's site - what is it ? 
Ruairi,
Do you have the BLUE lollipop as well? They're selling for $450 currently right from the factory - seemed like a great deal, and after hearing the capsule, I think I'm going to have to spring for another...
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Jay
PlugHead Productions
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#511816 - 04/08/04 08:24 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Ruairi O'Flaherty
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Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 343
Loc: IRELAND
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Hey Plug,
I don't have any Blue mics at the moment. My main mics are
Soundelux E47
Soundelux U99
AKG C414 ULS
2 x KM184
2 x C451E
2 x C451B
2 x Sennheiser 421 II
2 x Sennheriser 441
57s
58s
AKG D112
I am not sure where to go from here with my mics. I will be in London next month and I plan to demo the Korby system while I'm there. I like the idea of selling the E47 and U99 and putting the cash towards the Korby 4 capsule set. I'm also curios about the Royer ribbon mics but I did have a Beyer M160 which lots of folks seems to love and I didn't get on with it at all. I found I need to add tons of top to anything to get ot to work and it just didn't feel right. It was nice on violin and to a lesser extent on cello but the E47 does a better job IMHO.
If it's not thread hijacking I'd love to hear any thoughts or ideas on where I could take the mic locker. Not that I have the cash right now - my ADAM S3As leave germany today  Dvae Bryce gets another one,
cheers,
Ruairi
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#511817 - 04/10/04 12:32 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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PlugHead
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Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 139
Loc: Whitehorse,CANADA
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Originally posted by Ruairi O'Flaherty:
I am not sure where to go from here with my mics. I will be in London next month and I plan to demo the Korby system while I'm there. I like the idea of selling the E47 and U99 and putting the cash towards the Korby 4 capsule set. I'm also curios about the Royer ribbon mics but I did have a Beyer M160 which lots of folks seems to love and I didn't get on with it at all. I found I need to add tons of top to anything to get ot to work and it just didn't feel right. It was nice on violin and to a lesser extent on cello but the E47 does a better job IMHO.
If it's not thread hijacking I'd love to hear any thoughts or ideas on where I could take the mic locker. Not that I have the cash right now - my ADAM S3As leave germany today Dvae Bryce gets another one,
cheers,
Ruairi
FTR, tonight we're (another AE and myself) having a shootout with our ribbon mics:
1) Beyer M160
2) Beyer M160 Sank DX mod
3) Royer R-121
4) Royer R-122
5) Royer SF-1
6) Coles 4038
7) AEA R-84
8) Beyer M500NC
We'll compare them using the same cables/pre amp's/converters. We're recording fiddle (violin, actually), brass and percussion. If you're recording strings/horns/piano, etc., I would seriously recommend listening to a (good) ribbon mic - it could change your opinion of what you "need" as opposed to what you "want"...
YMMV,
_________________________
Jay
PlugHead Productions
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#511818 - 04/10/04 12:41 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Ruairi O'Flaherty
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Registered: 01/04/02
Posts: 343
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Jay,
I'm thinking a ribbon may well be my next choice. I record a lot of different styles but mostly rock, indie, folk and the odd string and brass section. I'd love to hear your thoughts after you shoot out those mics. The Royers certainly seem to be considered a very useable everyday mic,
cheers,
Ruairi
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#511819 - 04/10/04 05:39 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Mark Lemaire
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Registered: 03/21/00
Posts: 930
Loc: Emeryville, CA USA
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I borrowed a pair of pretty new 460B's and was very impressed- especially with the lack of self-noise. Those fuckers are QUIET! The tone was pretty nice too, maybe a little edgy for what I used them on- choir spot mics and a string quartet.
What differences are there between the 460B and the 451 mic line?
ML
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#511820 - 04/10/04 06:47 AM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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X-Facta
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Registered: 10/16/01
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Hey - that Blue 451 capsule looks nifty.
Gotta love the forum - learn something new all the time.
Rock the kids,
RM
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#511821 - 04/10/04 02:58 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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PlugHead
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Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 139
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Originally posted by Mark Lemaire:
I borrowed a pair of pretty new 460B's and was very impressed- especially with the lack of self-noise. Those fuckers are QUIET! The tone was pretty nice too, maybe a little edgy for what I used them on- choir spot mics and a string quartet.
What differences are there between the 460B and the 451 mic line?
ML
I've not used the new 460(b's), but have used the old(er) 460 in sessions, and I think the lineage is quite the same: bright character, but nice detail. There has to be some differences, tho - maybe a bit of info on the akg site under "discontinued" for the old 460/451's, and surely specs for the new line of 451B/460B...
As for the ribbon mic shootout, it was very revealing - I was impressed, and also surprised by a few things - will write more when I have the time...
Happy Easter weekend everyone!
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Jay
PlugHead Productions
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#511822 - 04/10/04 03:52 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Registered: 12/17/00
Posts: 17674
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As for the Beyer M160, we have a Sank DX modded one
Please tell me more about that mod Jay. Price? Link to their website? Sonics?
Thanks!
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#511823 - 04/10/04 04:30 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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PlugHead
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Registered: 08/06/01
Posts: 139
Loc: Whitehorse,CANADA
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Originally posted by Philip O'Keefe:
As for the Beyer M160, we have a Sank DX modded one
Please tell me more about that mod Jay. Price? Link to their website? Sonics?
Thanks!
http://www.thuntek.net/~bk11/bk11.htm
The M160 mod is about $180 (double ribbon), and the M260 is $120 (single ribbon) - I think it's a good deal if you have a dead ribbon in one of your Beyer's (even M500NC's can be modded) - tho read the review I just posted - not to cast a shadow on the mic, I think it has it's place, but against other ribbons, it has a hard time being as indispensible - then again, that's only MY opinion...
cheers,
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Jay
PlugHead Productions
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#511824 - 04/10/04 05:20 PM
Re: akg 451 (which model has the juice)?
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Philip O'Keefe
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Thanks Jay, I'll check it out.
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