#511263 - 03/26/04 10:16 PM
How Good Can it Get?
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existence
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Registered: 01/06/04
Posts: 7
Loc: San Francisco
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I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum, which I consider to be the most thoughtful of all of the pro audio discussion boards. I have read and participated in such discussions as the nuances of different ‘high-end’ AC power cords, or the various arguments between whose high end converter or mic pre is ‘better’, or the benefits of twenty-thousand dollar studio monitors. Following this, I have been struck with a fundamental theoretical question concerning music and its reproduction through recorded medium (especially in light of my own daily struggle to find that sweet spot between cost and performance) -- Namely, how good can it get? I mean in a very real sense – is there an ‘upper limit’ to the quality of recordings that we make? Theory in physics tells us that the very smallest level of microscopic detail is roughly the Planck length (1.6 x 10-35 m) before our notion of ‘measurement’ breaks down. Is there an analogous limit in audio -- past which any measurement, either objective or subjective, breaks down?
It just seems like a matter of time before such measurable criteria as distortion, jitter, frequency response, etc. are optimized via technology right off the discussion table. We might have a long way to go before we can capture the actual experience of a symphony orchestra in full bloom in a great hall. But which of us thinks that this is ultimately impossible?
Of course, I know that the practical answer is that the investments we make in time and money should reflect our goals in the project, with the law of diminishing returns applying. And, that our subjective assessment of sound will always allow us to say ‘I’ve heard better…” But after we have bought the very best equipment and deployed it in the most skilled way to record the most talented musicians, have we reached the pinnacle of what recorded sound can achieve? Or will we humbly discover later that what we thought was the pinnacle was just the beginning?
It seems that this question has very real consequences to the decisions we make every day concerning equipment, space, vibe, association, etc.
-- David
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#511264 - 03/26/04 11:28 PM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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St. Domingo
Senior Member
Registered: 06/12/02
Posts: 47
Loc: London, UNITED KINGDOM
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distortion, jitter, frequency response, etc. are optimized via technology right off the discussion table Or will we humbly discover later that what we thought was the pinnacle was just the beginning?
The needle returns to the start of the song,
And we all sing along like before.
_________________________
----------------------------------
Matt Ward
Technical Support Engineer,
Metropolis Group
London
It's a Grand Old Team To Play For...
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#511265 - 03/26/04 11:31 PM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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3D Audio
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 1032
Loc: Franklin, TN, US
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Originally posted by existence:
....our subjective assessment of sound will always allow us to say ‘I’ve heard better…” But after we have bought the very best equipment and deployed it in the most skilled way to record the most talented musicians, have we reached the pinnacle of what recorded sound can achieve? Or will we humbly discover later that what we thought was the pinnacle was just the beginning?
From the site: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/eddiscs.html
The Edison cabinets were deemed to be less attractive than the Victrolas, and customers were required to buy Edison discs only for Edison players, since they were not compatible with other players. The laminated surface of the discs also had a tendency to detach from the core material, and surface noise was frequently apparent, which contradicted the aim of perfection that the company was trying to achieve with its recordings. Still, the phonographs and discs were touted as being acoustically better than those of the competitors. In order to bolster claims of superiority, Edison claimed that his records could be played 1,000 times without wear.
Recitals were also conducted to prove the merit of the discs. Edison recording artists would sing along with a disc recording of their voices, daring the audience to be able to tell the difference. In late 1915, Edison began its famous Tone Tests, which featured artists alternating their live performance on a darkened stage with that on the disc in front of large audiences, challenging them to detect a difference. Reaction was positive to these tests, and reinforced the Edison motto that the discs were "re-creations" of performances, not merely recordings of them.
I think the future will judge how successful we were in advancing realism in recording and whether our current technology enabled us to make better recordings or not.
_________________________
Lynn Fuston 3D Audio Inc Home of 3dB
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#511266 - 03/26/04 11:45 PM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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dsykes
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Registered: 09/02/01
Posts: 9
Loc: New York,NY,UNITED STATES
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Nevertheless, the state of the art is at a far more mature state than it was in 1915...to the point that for the last 35 years, at least, it has been possible to make recordings that are timelessly beautiful, moving, etc.
I.e. the technology to make a beautiful recording is much more readily available than generating or finding those "magical" musical moments. More power to those who are so motivated, but for my dime, the quest for the next incremental improvement in technology pails in comparison to the quest for the "magic"----but, of course, the two aren't mutually exclusive. So many worthy quests, so little time...
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#511267 - 03/27/04 02:51 PM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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Tedly Nightshade
MP Hall of Fame Member
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 4649
Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
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Great context, Lynn!
There is definitely a point of diminishing returns, and at some point it becomes all about the playback system. I have heard some amazing things in my time, but there's nothing like fine acoustic instruments live and in person. If I was an audiophile (and maybe I am) I would have musicians play real instruments in my living room (or somewhere better) and ooh and ah over that...
I have a very poor friend who keeps a nice old handmade Zildjian cymbal around, and when he needs his beauty fix, he plays it very very lightly and holds it right next to his ear...
_________________________
A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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#511268 - 03/27/04 11:59 PM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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Bill Mueller
Senior Member
Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 147
Loc: Maryland
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David,
Around the year 1000 some bright guy wrote that all important things had been discovered and that from then on, only incremental discoveries would be possible. Another bright guy wrote that same thing around 1800 and then another not so bright guy wrote that same thing only a few years ago, saying that all major scientific discoveries had been made and the age of the discoverer was over. All future scientists would be bean counters.
As of 20 minutes ago we have discovered that 70% of the Universe is made of a dark material that we know absolutely nothing about, Mercury has permanent ice and Mars had oceans of liquid water.
Imagine microphones without mass, transducers that project holophonic infrasonic-to-ultrasonic images without moving parts and storage systems that store and playback three dimensional infinite resolution images of sonic events through systems that perfectly null offending acoustics.
It could get REAL good.
Look to the future or live in the past.
Best Regards,
Bill
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#511269 - 03/28/04 02:05 AM
Re: How Good Can it Get?
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dsykes
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Registered: 09/02/01
Posts: 9
Loc: New York,NY,UNITED STATES
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Bill,
Fair enough and I don't disagree. Nevertheless, I only meant that with any techonology, idea, etc it is almsost always the case that the early steep development curve flattens out overtime. What developoment in the last 50 years can match the profundity of the first playback of Edison reciting "Mary had a little lamb...".
In any case, although not clearly articulated, the real point of my FWIW post was to express gratidude for a technology that for sometime now has been capable of delivery such sensory pleasing results...in no way do I mean to disparage the importance of pressing forward. Indeed, it's a luxury to be able focus on other things.
David
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