#510978 - 03/23/04 05:38 PM
STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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What are the best microphones to record string quartet?
Matched pair.
Do not be afraid to be biased .
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#510979 - 03/23/04 05:43 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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DAS
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M50, M150 not a bad second choice, but I'd use three mics in a Decca tree arrangement.
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#510980 - 03/23/04 10:17 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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jnorman
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from my experience, it is more than just the mics you select. there are several good microphones for this application, but it is pretty essential to match the mics to just the right preamp and utilize good converters. probably evenmore importantn than any of those considerations is the quality of the space where you record.
at any rate, probably my top choice in an ideal venue would be a spaced pair of DPA 4006s through HV3 pres. in a less than ideal hall, i would use an ORTF pair of schoeps cmc64s or DPA 4011s, same pres. a little further down the totem pole, my next choice would be akg c480s in ORTF. in a situation where the hall is not good, or an audience is present, the schoeps cmc641s (hypers) in NOS, or akg c480s with ck63s. though i have no direct experience with them, many pros seem to like the josephson series six mics and the sennheiser mkh series. i dont see a lot of people using the neumann km series as they seem more suited to near-field work than to diffuse field work, but i believe the tlm170s might be a nice choice. the gefell 295s with the nickel diaprhagms are also suppsed to be extremely good.
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jnorman
sunridge studios
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#510981 - 03/24/04 04:15 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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How about Neumann km 100 with 40 cardioid capsules for more closed approach?
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#510982 - 03/24/04 04:34 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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jnorman
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heli - you are bordering on heresy here. most purists despise close-miced string quartets, and certainly most profressionally produced works are done with a single spaced pair of omnis or ORTF cards in a very nice space. some more contemporary engrs will supplement the main pair with individual spots, but it is rare. there are some folks who will individually mic each instrument, especially if the space really sucks, but then you will really be fighting a lot of adverse elements to get a truly cohesive quartet sound, and almost no matter what you do, you will not get a recording that sound like most of the commercial CDs yo will be using as references.
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sunridge studios
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#510983 - 03/24/04 05:02 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Uh Clem
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Originally posted by jnorman:
heli - you are bordering on heresy here. most purists despise close-miced string quartets, and certainly most profressionally produced works are done with a single spaced pair of omnis or ORTF cards in a very nice space. some more contemporary engrs will supplement the main pair with individual spots, but it is rare. there are some folks who will individually mic each instrument, especially if the space really sucks, but then you will really be fighting a lot of adverse elements to get a truly cohesive quartet sound, and almost no matter what you do, you will not get a recording that sound like most of the commercial CDs yo will be using as references.
We are able to get there early for a short lecture and then have 4th or 5th row seats on the same arc as the ORTF pair of mics about 15 feet in the air aimed at the quartet.
As preparation for each performance we have been listening to recordings of the Quartets in advance - excellent recordings from the 70s or earlier in some cases and while they in many ways sound wonderful, one thing that I notice is the lack of clear position in the recording that I hear so well live - with my eyes closed, no peaking for reference. Live I get the sense of four players with the 1st viloin panned hard left and the cello hard right, the other two in between and clear as a bell - that doesn't come thru at all on the recordings - no the are not mono recordings as was popular on some earlier classical labels even after stereo was available.
Maybe I'm sitting too close? Maybe one is not really supposed to feel the cello so much as just hear it.
What to do? Just my observations while getting into this beautiful music.
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#510985 - 03/24/04 06:20 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Ola Lagarhus
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I like to hear a rather close mics placement for String Quartets recordings - well, not too much reverberation. Best example, the 16 Beethoven quartets played by the Russian Beethoven Quartet from Moscow issued on Melodiya LPs. Recorded in the 60`s and early 70`s. Top interpretations.
Have you heard these?
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#510986 - 03/24/04 09:20 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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garysjo
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How about a Royer SF12 into a pair of Great Rivers? I have a strg quartet thing coming up. My only real choice based on my limited amount of gear.
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#510987 - 03/25/04 03:59 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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jnorman
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gary - i used a pair of royer r-121s in blumlein for a flute quartet in a big church with very nice results. i would keep it in pretty close though. i just think quartets need a little bit more intimate sound than larger groups.
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sunridge studios
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#510988 - 03/25/04 04:39 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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This is what I have done
My latest expirience was pair of km 184s for close miking and B&K omni ( I do not know the model, it is of older ones) for ambience.
I found 184s too edgy and replaced them with pair of km100 with 40 capsule(cardioid) for close and left B&K over the quartet
Later I swapped one of km 100s, on the 1st violin side, to an old and battered km84.That was final and sounded best.
Directs were recorded with TL Audio EQ1 with old SSM 2017 chips and GE JAN valves, and ambience with custom made pre amp with Jensen JT 115K-E at input and Lundahl LL 1517 at the output.
This is good enough but I want to go one or two steps up in quality
I want to skip Earthworks becouse I have tried and am not happy enough.
So which DPA or SCHOEPS You think?
Or something else?
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#510989 - 03/25/04 10:38 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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axis
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Originally posted by helicopter:
This is good enough but I want to go one or two steps up in quality
I want to skip Earthworks becouse I have tried and am not happy enough.
So which DPA or SCHOEPS You think?
Or something else? 
Kind regards
Peter
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#510990 - 03/25/04 01:29 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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kubapk
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Shoeps MK21
if 44 or 48 session Studer D19 Valve
if 96 or higher I don't know
kubapk
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#510991 - 03/25/04 06:00 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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Which GML?
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#510992 - 03/26/04 03:56 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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axis
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Originally posted by helicopter:
Which GML?
Kind regards
Peter
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Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.>>Søren kirkegaard>
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#510993 - 03/26/04 07:56 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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Thanks for the info
But I have to consider the price, which is too much at the moment, provided that I need an xternal supply as well.
I have no doubts that this is an excellent pre amp, and look forward to try it.
Best, heli......
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#510994 - 03/26/04 08:42 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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adebar
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So which DPA or SCHOEPS You think?
The MBHOs are also great on strings - and affordable.
http://www.mbho.de/
Or if money doesn´t count, Sonsodore are good for classical recordings as well.
http://www.northstarconsult.nl/sonodorehome.html
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#510995 - 03/26/04 10:27 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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axis
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Originally posted by helicopter:
Thanks for the info
But I have to consider the price, which is too much at the moment, provided that I need an xternal supply as well.
I have no doubts that this is an excellent pre amp, and look forward to try it.
Best, heli......
http://mercenary.com/gml.html
Seems to me Fletcher, and George has lost their mind for a brief moment in time..
Kind regards
Peter
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Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.>>Søren kirkegaard>
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#510996 - 03/26/04 10:38 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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steveD
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Registered: 08/19/01
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Spaced pair of Earthworks QTC1 or QTC30 omni-s into an Earthworks 1022.
I put them pretty close and move them to achieve the right mix.
Great Stereo sound stage.
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#510997 - 03/26/04 10:42 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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steveD
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Spaced pair of Earthworks QTC1 or QTC30 omni-s into an Earthworks 1022.
I put them pretty close and move them to achieve the right mix.
Great Stereo sound stage.
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#510998 - 03/26/04 05:29 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Bobro
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Originally posted by Ola Lagarhus:
I like to hear a rather close mics placement for String Quartets recordings - well, not too much reverberation. Best example, the 16 Beethoven quartets played by the Russian Beethoven Quartet from Moscow issued on Melodiya LPs. Recorded in the 60`s and early 70`s. Top interpretations.
Have you heard these?
As far as "purists" and contemporary cds... the deep and true audience of a string quartet and many other small ensembles is the players themselves, which IMO totally justifies intimate recording approaches.
-Bobro
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#510999 - 03/27/04 10:17 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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helicopter
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Personaly I prefer close miked strings with a right ammount of ambience added by mono overhead,
I find that almost always -unless You are big league and have the budget and the time- that spaces You record within are not best matched for the ocassion and bad reverb can not be undone later.
If I put stereo ambience as well as stereo spot mics phase is also a big problem
With just one over I have enough space information and reverb and phase is perfect if You take care about mic placement.
Sometimes I change the place of cello and violla so that cello sits in the center.
Any opinnions?
Best.....heli...
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#511000 - 03/27/04 02:42 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Tedly Nightshade
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Originally posted by Bobro:
[QUOTE]
As far as "purists" and contemporary cds... the deep and true audience of a string quartet and many other small ensembles is the players themselves, which IMO totally justifies intimate recording approaches.
-Bobro
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#511001 - 03/27/04 05:04 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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garysjo
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i used a pair of royer r-121s in blumlein for a flute quartet in a big church with very nice results. i would keep it in pretty close though. i just think quartets need a little bit more intimate sound than larger groups.
--------------------
jnorman
sunridge studios
salem, oregon
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#511002 - 03/28/04 10:42 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Will Russell
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Earthworks QTC1s with a Jeckelin disc into a Pendulum MPD-1 tube mic pre.
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#511003 - 03/28/04 10:48 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Ola Lagarhus
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Yes, two omni mikes and a Jecklin disc should work fine - and a closer placement than with two stereo cardioid mikes.
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#511004 - 03/28/04 06:46 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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adebar
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Compared to Jecklin I prefer the KFM6 from Schoeps. Instead of a disc you have a sphere between 2 omnis and the result is, compared to Jecklin, a less nervous soundstage. but you have to have a good room acoustics.
More
http://www.schoeps.de/E/kfm6.html
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#511005 - 03/29/04 03:48 AM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Rich Mays
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I did a quartet CD a few weeks ago, and we began by comparing Schoeps M222/MK21, B&K 4003s and Royer SF-12. I did not even pull the KM140s out of the case. Since then I have acquired some TLM193s and that would have been interesting, but.....
The quartet cbose the Schoeps (and so did I). The mic pres were the Precision 8 and HVA 4000.
Personally the omnis were too vague in the imaging department for a small chamber ensemble and the Royer lacked the transient response. The tube Schopes were "just the ticket".
Rich
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#511006 - 03/29/04 10:43 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Ollie
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I am partial to Neumann KM264 KM64 on strings.
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#511007 - 03/29/04 11:11 PM
Re: STRING QUARTET BEST MATCHED PAIR OF MICS
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Tedly Nightshade
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Registered: 01/03/02
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Loc: applegate,OR,UNITED STATES
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Originally posted by Rich Mays:
I did a quartet CD a few weeks ago, and we began by comparing Schoeps M222/MK21, B&K 4003s and Royer SF-12. I did not even pull the KM140s out of the case. Since then I have acquired some TLM193s and that would have been interesting, but.....
The quartet cbose the Schoeps (and so did I). The mic pres were the Precision 8 and HVA 4000.
Personally the omnis were too vague in the imaging department for a small chamber ensemble and the Royer lacked the transient response. The tube Schopes were "just the ticket".
Rich
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A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM!
"There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau
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